Projects 1940 Ford Tudor Deluxe Rebuild

I was running a 10 inch rear tire and with posie's springs the tires rubbed the inner wheel wells whenever I had anyone in the rear seat so I wish that I would have run a narrow tire like I do on my 48 chevy. I ran the 40 straight axle in the front with a posie spring and loved it, even ran the original brakes. If you keep the car simple then you will never be upside down in the car, just keep doing a little to it every winter and you end up with a super car that everyone will love. Take your time and don't rush into doing anything rash and you'll always love the car. 1957 to 59 ford 9 inch rears fit a forty good. I really miss my forty but I traded it for a 32 ford roadster which I only had one chance at. Pm me if you ever need anything, good luck and drive it.

 

Glad you still have the car. Hope everything works out with it. I see a re-creation of the Jerry Moreland car somewhere down the road.....Don.

 

Thanks for the info and advice guys. The car does have a 9" in it and I think it is the narrow one. But I haven't verified for sure. Once I get the car on some stands and pull it apart I will know more. I haven't decided on the wheels yet but will post here when I do. First I have to take my measurements before I do anything. I currently have 14's on the front so I will need to figure out what size of tire I want to go with now too.

 

i run a 9" out of a 70 torino in my 40 and could use a little more room also. There are fenders that are 2 inches wider now made for the 40, I believe bob drake sells them. For rims I'm running cragers.

 

First off, 4tford, it's all your fault! When I first started talking with the guy I'm getting my 354 from, the only pics I could find of a 392 or a 354 in a 40 when I was searching the net, was of your car. LOL In a few weeks I will be bringing that mess home. It's a 56 New Yorker I believe. The engine runs awesome. This is why my wheels funding is slim. I'm going to try to swing in the 354 before the middle of spring. I'm leaning towards the Wilcap adapter and I guess Sanderson headers. I haven't seen too many other options. I love the way yours looks in there!

 

Sanderson headers are a good choice, but there are others like hotheads and PAW also, Mine are from PAW. I had to put pockets in my inner fenders for valve cover clearence and I boxed the frame at the front crossmember and trans crossmember. I added pics of my headers and where I added the pockets for valve cover clearence, hope it helps you.

 

Just my 2 cents, the widened rear fenders look dumb on a 40. Hope I have not offended anyone. I have a 70 Torino 9" under my 46 and it fits great, probably too wide for 40. There are some narrower 9" out there. I have an 8" Maverick under my 40 coupe, but it is not backing up a Hemi, lol.

 

No offense taken, it is an option for bigger tires if you want. The fenders are sold by speedway motors and are fiberglass so that could be an issue. They state they are 3 1/2 inches wider than stock but still fit the running boards.

 

Thanks for the pics 4tford! Did you buy or build your engine mounts? That is the biggest complaint I have about the fiberglass rear wider fenders other than the typical spider cracking of fiberglass over time from rocks and stuff. But the transition from the running board to the widened area is where it looks out of place to me. But, someday this will be an option. I actually thought about buying another set of steel rear fenders and taking 2 and widening a set. You'd also have to build the running boards too. But that is farther down the road.

 

I don't think I mentioned in the thread earlier. Late last fall I filled the car up and parked it on a slight incline. Curbside up, road side down. Well, it got hot out, the gas over flowed and ran down the fender. Needless to say it bubbled the paint. Between this and the paint fading are the reasons for me wanting to paint it. I was thinking of ditching the bumpers, but the more I look at Moreland's 40, the more I want to just get new ones and keep them. Another thing I'm curious of is V-but windshields. Do you need a different windshield gaskt for a v-but windshield?

 

The mounts you can buy from speedway motors, they have them for the early hemi. You are right about the fiberglass fenders.

 

how did you get on with the chassis and diagnosing the possible sag ? Is the body still bolted on the chassis with the doors on? you may well be able to diagnose some of your door fitment issues before you get too far in ....just using a floor jack in the right place...PB

 

With the area of the crossmember that is removed, and how the front sheet metal doesn't line up worth a darn, plus the doors don't line up for darn. I'm guessing that the frame has sagged in the center over the years causing these fitment issues. After I check some stuff and get the part to repair my cross member my plans are to put it on my trailer, chain it down and push it up near the cross member on both sides. Repair the cross member and see what happens.

 

do you have any photos of the the fit of the doors? If they are dropping at the rear when you open them ,you may need shims under the A-pillar (but not the ones under the base of firewall) .
It may be possible to use a pair of jacks positioned under the chassis below the B-pillars to 'bend' the car using the engine/trans weight in your favour to help ascertain whether you've got sag. Basically I don't think you should assume your chassis is overly sagged without trying a few tricks to hone in on the problem.
I've been workin on reassembling a 40 Tudor here recently...it needed 1/4 inch packers under the A-pillar only and the doors fit like a glove.
Keep in mind the panel fitment of these ol' girls wasn't real good from the get go.. Hope this is some help PB

 

PB, you may be right. The doors don't really sag when opened, the door gaps are just not symmetrical, leading me to think the body and frame could have sagged. But the biggest issue is the alignment of the LH door to quarter panel at the lower portion of the door. The door sticks out atleast a 1/4" about the bottom 1/3 of the door. I spent some time looking at other 40 sedans at a couple of shows last fall and I saw a couple almost identicle to mine. So that part might actually be factory fitment issues. I'm going to get it out today wash it, drive it since its supposed to be nice for a change, and I'll take some pics of the cross member hack and the front suspension. Thanks for the advice guys. Oh by the way, in a few weeks I should have the 56 New Yorker home to start parting out.

 

Subscribed to this thread to see your progress. I am putting together a '40 Deluxe Tudor brought home in many,many boxes!

 

if you take the catch off the door post ,then shut the door and physically push the bottom rear corner of the door in till it's flush with the quarter...do you then have a parallel door gap? if so ten chances are the chassis isn't sagged.
also take stock of the beltline accent lines and how well they line up...

I can post some pics to show you how to 'twist' the door and get the bottom corner flush if you like...

 

Sounds cool! I keep looking at any 39 or 40 ford basket cases and I have to tell myself to concentrate on one at a time. My wife loves the 40 we have now, and I want one to heavily modify for me later on.

Sounds good. I'm going to go get it out and put it in the shop right now. I'll take a bunch of pics, and post them up for you guys tonight.

 

40ford deluxe..check Chassis Engineering.com they have a bolt in cross member kit in there catalog. Also my 39deluxe has a 8 in granada under it with a complete C.E.springand sway bar kit. 235 75 15s under it and know clearance problems at all

 

Ok, first here are pictures of the door fitment. This is with the door guides for the latch removed and my friend holding it shut. With the guides installed, it is the same. Sorry, the poor car needs a bath horribly.
LH Door






RH Door

So after comparing the RH and LH door gaps tonight, it might just be poor fitment from the previous group that completed the work. I can't imagine that the frame has sagged enough only on one side and allowing the LH door only to be that far off.

 

Now, here are some pics of the under side. I knew this car had been neglected and I have done some small things since I've owned it, but......................... Man oh man am I disappointed with the quality job that was supposedly completed on this poor car's restoration. I have my work cut out for me to be driving it to any where after investigating this. The front cross member install looks not so great at all. Now I can see where some of the weird noises may have been coming from.
Rear end

Trans cross member/X member hack job






Here is the rear wheel well area with the tires on it.



The rear end measures 50 1/4" from backing plate to backing plate. The wheels have 4" off set, and the tires are 225/70R15's. Does it look like I can squeeze a 15x8 in there? I have about 1 1/2" of clearance from the edge of the fender to the tire. There isn't much room to play with on the wheel well/leaf spring area.

Here comes the worst part in my opinion. I'm sure this needs to be repaired or replaced while the engine is out. Maybe I'm just overly anal, but I see places not welded, and hacked in there. This was done by my uncle and some of his buddies many, many years ago. Dang. LOL

 

This looks like it is the original style master cylinder? I think so. Man, supposedly this car was a "Frame Off" resto. That's BS! It still has the stock body bolts and body to frame cushions. At this point I'm thinking I'm going to just pull the body off the frame seeing how I will have all the fenders and front clip off of it. I see some rust that needs taken care of right now before it becomes an issue. I want to repair the frame and I may ditch the TH400 for a TH350. The out put seal needs replaced on the trans and I pretty much have to remove the engine and trans to do that. I for see this being a frame off recon here shortly unfortunately. I see the rack is leaking badly now, the front suspension needs rebuilt, the front coils need to go, and have spacer blocks in them. I'm guessing this is part of my land yacht boat ride feeling. Ka ching $$$$ here goes the money bank. I guess my new Bob Drake chrome bumpers may have to wait.

 

I'm pretty sure it has the CE rear leaf spring kit in it now. I was planning on buying the x member repair kit and a new mustang II cross member kit from them too.

 

Hi again...from what I can see it kinda looks like your doors may have a wider gap at the top than the bottom? If so then the chassis most likely ain't sagged at all....poss the opposite ... which could mean that somewhere along the way the body has been packed up with shims when it doesn't need them.
I have got an F-1 pickup here that was brought to me after another local body guy had had a go at it. He had put nearly 1in thick body mounts under the firewall and basically stock ones further back...nothing fitted even close..the doors were sprung and dropping a lot off the wedges when opening ...the hood would no longer fit either!!
dropped the firewall down to a 5/16 rubber mount and the left door came good ...needed to do as I explained to you earlier and (using the weight of motor/trans to help) body-jacked the top door hinge forward on the right hand side and got a nice gap too.
Just sing out if you'd like a few photos as a picture is worth a 1000 words as the sayin goes..PB

 

My 40 coupe has the same gap problem on the pass. door with the btm corner not flush. I'm reading this with great interest.

 

fleet-master, please give us some photos!

 

Sure, post up the pics. My hood doesn't fit real nice either, so you could be on to something here. I am going to be putting a list together of parts I'm going to need to get this thing ready for cruising season. New rubber cushions for the body to frame will be on that list. I don't think the body is shimmed like the truck you're talking about, but I'll look again.

 

I remember 20 years ago reading an article about Tom Medley's (Stroker McGurk) '40 coupe. They told how he had a well known fabricator, who I've forgotten now, install a Mustang II frontend. Cut the frame off even with the back edge of the new crossmember, slide the crossmember up and weld it on, then trim the front frame horns and weld them on the front of the crossmember. I always thought that sounded like a horrible way to do the conversion, and was glad I'd never seen anyone else do it that way. But now I see your Uncle did it also.

 

It's a dang shame too! To me it looks like they didn't cut the front frame sections off. The cut out the bottom side of the frame and slid the MII cross member up there. You can see in the pics of how much gap is behind the MII cross member. Then it looks like the boxed the frame to make it look better or strengthen the frame. Either way, I think my best option for now is to make some reinforcement plates and weld them in. Then purchase a new to me frame and build a new running gear when I repaint the car later down the road.

 

Lots of the early street rods are a little bit scary.

V-butted windshield? Tubbed? LT-1s? Are you sure you're in the right place?

Are you going to keep that frame, or look for a new one and start over?

I don't know much about '40s, but I seem to recall that they are about the hardest of the pre-war cars to align the sheet metal properly.