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Hot Rods 1940 Ford Front Spring & Ride Quality

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by deluxe40, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    The shackles are at 45 degrees. The shackles are triangles that include the shock mounts. I have never seen this before. I am wondering about this whole front end kit.
     
  2. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Andy, Leaves are .240" and there are 9. Length from center to center at the shackle bolts is 35 3/4". This (Posie) spring replaced a similar spring (labelled FS - 3540 E?) with 7 leaves that measure .275". Both are way too stiff compared to my stock '40. It is hard to measure the stock '40 spring because the leaf on top of the main wraps over it. The end of that second leaf measures .185" (roughly). The '40 spring measures 41 1/2" in length. I'm very interested in what you think because I am hoping to improve the ride on this car without changing the axle.
     
  3. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,631

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    I would either call CE and buy their recommended spring for your axle, or buy their main leaf and add stock 40 springs to that. I see no reason you should not be able to keep the axle. You might pm olscrounger and ask for his opinion. He has a lot of usable info for this stuff and is a great guy.
     
  4. I have a CE 3540e spring I'd sell since I have a posies now. Only problem is it's still in the car currently.

    It's the correct spring for the 47" axle
     
  5. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,631

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    It will be interesting to see what difference the Posies spring makes. Let us know.
     
  6. geoford41
    Joined: Jul 26, 2011
    Posts: 741

    geoford41
    Member
    from Delaware

    That mount looks like it is a TCI (also available from speedway) I have that in My 40 and had the CE with the tie rod ends pointing up. If the shocks and mounts are CE there is an instruction as to the location of the upper mount based on the amount of space between the frame rail and axle
     
  7. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,637

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    the wishbone mt is as geoford41 stated-the CE go straight up. as to wishbone to trans pan something is odd-I have used that setup on quite a few 40's and just cked mine-wishbone is at least 3/8 and maybe 1/2 from pan on pass side--do you have some sort of short rear trans mt ???? I have never used the lower shock mt that goes on the spring shackle but have seen a few--I think Pete and Jake sell them and I'm sure there are others as well.
     
  8. geoford41
    Joined: Jul 26, 2011
    Posts: 741

    geoford41
    Member
    from Delaware

    I had to get off the site early this AM and I wanted to pass on another observation regarding the nuts on the U bolts. I see you took off the Castle nuts and replaced them with what appears to be Jam nuts. I am not an engineer but I was always informed that for Max. holding power the nut thread engagement should be at least the diameter of the bolt it is being threaded onto. I know the spring pack along with a spacer(?) limits the amount of threads shown but I would correct that so the nut does not strip out under a load. I had the same type of issue on my '41 pickup so I had the bottom 2 plates milled a small amount where they contact the bottom of the main leaf so I could get a hardened flat washer along with a Grade 8 Lock nut (not a Nyloc)
     
  9. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,637

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    X2 on the ubolts and nuts
     
  10. phat rat
    Joined: Mar 18, 2001
    Posts: 4,778

    phat rat
    Member

    My point in post #4 but it seems to have gone over most heads
     
    Atwater Mike likes this.
  11. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,631

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Be sure to update us as you progress thru your changes. Then maybe share info about your other 40's, 32 and Bel Airs. Great looking sedan.
     
  12. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,982

    Andy
    Member

    I finally ran the numbers.
    The spring with 9 .240 thick leaves should be about 225 #/in per side
    The one with 7 .275 leaves should be about 260#/in per side
    Stock is about 122 #/in per side
     
  13. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,631

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    The CE spring that I have has 7 leaves that are .26o so I suppose that puts in the range of 240/245 #/ln? So does this mean aftermarket springs are made to lower our cars but need a higher rate to carry the load??? The stock 40 spring I have has 11 leaves that vary in thickness, which makes them progressive?? I have not disassembled the spring and it has been painted as a pack so it is hard to be accurate but it appears to have a .220 main leaf, an .180 second leaf that wraps the main leaf, then a .260 third leaf, the rest of the 11 appear to be .200. Maybe olscrounger can educate us on what leaves he removes on the original springs he uses.
     
  14. cvstl
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,490

    cvstl
    Member
    from StL MO
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    Mine is on '37, but its the same spring/axle....

    I'm running unsplit wishbone, and a stock axle dropped by Sid. I installed a new reversed eye CE spring, (stock width). It sits almost exactly where it sat with the stock axle and stock spring. I know that if I reverse the eyes on the stock spring, it will sit right where I want it, so that is the plan. I'm going to drop off the stock spring and St. Louis Spring Co and have them recondition and reverse the main leaf. CE spring as stiffer than stock, and has more arch that my stock spring that has been loaded for 78 years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  15. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Contacted Central Coast Springs in Santa Maria, CA. Here's the plan: They will make a new un-reversed main leaf which we will use with the other leaves from a stock spring recently removed from a '40 coupe. New main will be arched to match the other leaves. Will have to shorten a leaf or two on each side to fit the new main leaf. Book calls for 10 leaves on a stock '40, so we will start there. This and the removal of the current spacers should permit the use of the original castle nuts with cotter keys. I'll report the results.
     
    LOU WELLS likes this.
  16. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,637

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    you are on the right track now-keep us posted
     
  17. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,631

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    I'll report the results

    PLEASE.
     
  18. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Stock '40 spring with shortened main and safety leaves has been installed. Ride is much improved. Maybe not yet as good as a stock '40, but I didn't expect it would be with narrow spring. The choppiness and bone-jarring jolts are gone and the car handles potholes and pavement changes on the freeway quite well. I might be able to fool around with air pressure and make it even better. I'm running 30 lbs stone cold in all four tires. Also, the increased arch in the '40 spring raised the car about 2" which is OK. Still has a nice stance and it will now clear parking lot barriers without denting the grille chin. I can also get my low-boy floor jack under the car without driving up on boards first. Finally, the original Ford castle nuts with cotter keys have been installed on the U-bolts. Thanks to all who responded for the guidance.
     
    lothiandon1940 and LOU WELLS like this.
  19. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,631

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Thanks for posting your results. Glad they helped.
     
  20. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    I added an album for the '40 coupe and one for the '41 Sedan Delivery. Check out the Bel-Airs cars and history at our website www.bel-airs.com . Note: the name "Bel-Airs" came from the street in Glendale, CA, that the founding members lived on in 1955.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  21. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,631

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    What a great fleet of 40's. Got a chuckle out of my thinking the "Bel-Airs" were some more of your fleet. Thanks for sharing.
     
  22. I switched from a CE spring to a Posies, here are the results...

    It's difficult to tell from this pic, because I can't get a good shot of it in the garage, but the posies spring dropped it a good 1 1/2"... I bounced up and down on the frame and got almost another 1/4" of drop. It looks really good now, has a nice rake back to front, and seems to have enough of suspension travel. I'll get a better pic this weekend.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a comparison of a Chassis engineering spring and a Posies. CE on top. The CE spring actually has one less leaf than the Posies. The biggest difference is the thickness of the leaves themselves. The CE spring has thicker, more heavy duty leaves, and more arc. <a [​IMG]
     
  23. Jebster
    Joined: Jan 21, 2016
    Posts: 5

    Jebster

    Need some advice and I'm new to HAMB:
    39 Ford Deluxe - I have a dropped axle, disc brakes, and reversed eye spring all from Speedway, I'm using the stock unsplit wishbone.
    I put a set of junk 195/75R15 (6" rims) just to sit it on the ground and they hit the fenders.
    I'm happy with the way the front end sits down, but don't know how skinny a wheel and tire I will need.
    I want to stay 15", so options are 4" or 5" wide and maybe a 165 or 165/80 tire?
    Anyone running this combination?
    Any ideas or experience with a similar setup?
    Thanks!
     
  24. Jebster
    Joined: Jan 21, 2016
    Posts: 5

    Jebster


    What size front tires and wheels are you running?
     
  25. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I was just going to ask virtually the same question, how tall are the front tires? I also have a '39.
     
  26. I'm running 500/525 16's. I know 650's will fit also. @haychrishay needs to chime in because he just put radials on his 40.

    The 6" wheel probably needs to go. 5" or a stock 4" would give more clearance.
     
  27. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,982

    Andy
    Member

    I would suspect the disk brakes as the problem. A lot of the set ups move the wheel outboard a lot. This causes fender and steering problems. A dropped axle often moves the wheels in compensating for the disk brakes move to the outside. Look to see if a line thru the king pin intersects the floor anywhere near the center of the wheel. If it intersects outside the tire patch, that is a problem.
     
    Dan Hay likes this.
  28. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,184

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When I read "Bel-Airs" I was reminded of a popular '50s singing group! (Southern Ca. area, appeared on the Steve Allen Show periodically...)

    @Andy, I've done lots of leaf spring reversing/flattening/recounting leaves over the years also.
    Thanks for your research on pounds resistance per thickness, etc.
    Very concise.
     
  29. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I have 15x5 front wheels and Lincoln drums, intending to use the stock front spring with a 2.5" dropped axle and 6.00x15's with 7.60x15s and either a 2" drop shackle on the stock spring on the back or if that's too low, stock shackles with reversed eyes in the back. Want to end up as close to here as I can get..
    10-10-2015_010.JPG
     
  30. haychrishay
    Joined: Jul 23, 2008
    Posts: 951

    haychrishay
    Member

    I have 175/60 r 16s on, they are 24.3 inches tall. The 60 series side wall is to short. A 165/15 is aVW tire and has a taller side wall. I dont know off hand how tall, but I think they would look better. At this point I have no fender rub issues. One thing I found to be very helpful is to make sure the fender brackets that bolt from the frame to the rear of the front fender are in. They spread the fender out to proper shape and allow for a lot more clearance.
     
    Dan Hay likes this.

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