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Hot Rods 1940 Ford Front Spring & Ride Quality

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by deluxe40, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Thanks to birdman1 and those who responded on the thread "1939 Ford too low" I have a '40 Tudor with a 4" axle and a Posie reversed-eye spring. We had to use two 3/8" spacers on top of the spring to get sufficient road clearance. I plan to change to a non-reverse-eye spring and remove the spacers, hopefully preserving the stance I like (chin is now 5" from the floor). However, the ride is currently awful compared to a stock '40 Ford and I'm hoping to improve that. I have speculated that the narrow axle might be the problem. Compared to a stock '40 the axle is 3 1/2" narrower and the spring is 5 3/4" narrower. My question is: can I hope to approach the ride of a stock '40 with a different spring or does the narrow axle condemn me to the roughest ride I have experienced since we torched the springs on my mother's '49 Ford back in the fifties?
    \'40 Tudor Spring.jpg
     
  2. badshifter
    Joined: Apr 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,468

    badshifter
    Member

    Is the wishbone hitting the frame or smashing the exhaust? Did you relocate the shocks so they don't bottom out ?
     
  3. haychrishay
    Joined: Jul 23, 2008
    Posts: 952

    haychrishay
    Member

    More than likely the wishbone is hitting. I had a similar problem on my 40 that is my avatar. I have a stock width axle that I believe is a 4" drop. I put a stock main leaf in, took out the spacer in my Posi's superslide. It raised the car an inch an improved the ride tremendously.
     
    tevintage likes this.
  4. phat rat
    Joined: Mar 18, 2001
    Posts: 4,781

    phat rat
    Member

    Same as the guy with the 39 concerning the spring u-bolts. Why do some people consider it fine too not use longer u-bolts and cotter keys?
     

  5. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,636

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    I had a dropped Super Bell in my previous 40 tudor with a Paul Horton spring that sat low and rode great, so I don't think it is the narrow axle. I am setting up my current 40 tudor build with a CE narrow axle and their matching spring, although I have an excellent original spring to fall back on if need be. Expect to end up with as good of a ride on this tudor. They all seem to take some fiddling to get there, even an independent.
     
  6. johnale
    Joined: May 22, 2013
    Posts: 91

    johnale
    Member
    from Melbourne

    Repack the posie main leaf with the stock spring pack.

    I am running a magnum 4 inch dropped axle (stcok width) with the repacked leaf springs from the original and my ride is excellent.

    If you refer to my post in "1939 Ford too low" you will see the stance i have in the photo with the above configuration.
     
  7. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Thanks to all who responded. I now have confidence that changing the spring will be worth the effort and that my narrow axle and current stance can be preserved. I can also pull the spacers and use the current U-bolts with castle nuts and cotter keys. I will make sure that the (split) wishbones are not hitting anything and verify that the shocks have sufficient travel. Here's a closeup of my axle for okiedokie:

    \'40 Tudor Axle.jpg
     
  8. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 7,709

    19Fordy
    Member

    Reinstall the stock 40 Ford spring and reinstall the correct full size U-bolt nuts with cotter keys.
    The stock 40 Ford perch bolt hole distance is 38 1/2 inches. Is your current axle the same? If not, installing a stock 40 Ford spring may not work. Also, the stock 40 Ford axle has a 48 1/2 king pin to king pin measurement. Check this against your current axle. You might want to peruse this link and give Sid a call to really help solve your problem. The OEM Ford part # for the 10 leaf 1940 Ford front spring is 01A 5310-B just in case you want the real deal. The DeLuxe springs came wrapped with a steel cover. The Standard's did not.
    \http://www.droppedaxles.com/FORD_AXLES.html
    Torque nuts to 80 foot pounds. http://www.autoandtrucksprings.com/pages/U-Bolt_Torque.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  9. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,637

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

     
  10. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,637

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    agree with 19fordy
     
  11. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Can't use the stock Ford spring. Perch centers measure 38" and current Posie spring is a #2102 -- REVERSE EYE ( 38" PERCHES). Not thrilled with Posie because we waited two months for them to send a 38" stock-eye spring which they only make on demand and were too busy to make at the time. Finally gave up and installed the reverse eye spring with the spacers. So, I need to find a spring shop to make a new, narrow, main leaf for a stock spring. Has anybody worked with Central Coast Spring in Santa Maria? (p.s. I think the current U-bolts will be OK when the spacers are removed.)
     
  12. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,636

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    I think that CE recomends a 36" main leaf for that axle. You might double check with them. Sure would like to see more of your sedan.
     
  13. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Thanks for the tip. I posted a few more pictures of the Tudor in an album. Also checked your albums - nice cars!
     
  14. So, this is the setup I have going in a current build. I have a little more wishbone clearance because I have split bones, and wishbone mounts that hang down from the frame about 2". So, I might be OK with the wishbone travel that I have currently.
     
  15. I just picked up a posies 36" spring from bchrismer and it looks to be right for my CE 47" axle.

     
  16. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,636

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Dan Hay got any pictures of your wishbone mounts?
     
  17. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,636

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    deluxe40, when I tried to look at your profile for albums it shows nothing, says web page is down?? Weird because I can see Dan Hay's and mine.
     
  18. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,636

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Dan Hay, do you have a picture of your wishbone mounts?
     
  19. I don't have a pic of them installed, I'll have to get that tonight, but here's a pic from the
    CE website.


    . [​IMG]
     
  20. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,636

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    By the way Dan Hay, great job on your models.
     
  21. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,636

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    I asked because I used to, on occasion, drag the bones at the rear mounts on my previous 40 and they were the CE mounts that fit up into the center plate.
     
  22. Well, I might have issues with the wishbone mount dragging. The only thing that might help it that I'm running 750 16's out back, and the car will sit at a rake, so hopefully that'll help out the wishbone to ground clearance a little bit.

    And, thanks for the kind words about the models! They're a lot easier and cheaper than a real one!

     
  23. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    I did a test and took some more measurements this a.m. First, I measured the distance from the axle to the rubber snubbers on the frame - 1 1/2" (compared to 2 1/2" stock). I smeared some grease on top of the axle and drove the car over some speed bumps - no grease on the snubbers. Shocks have at least the same clearance, so I don't think it is bottoming out.

    Next, I measured the length of the Posie main leaf from center to center at the spring shackle bolts with tires on stands - 35 3/4" (compared to 41 1/2" stock). Not sure this spring will work the a stock '40 main leaf because the second leaf in the stock stack is 38". Do you cut the ends off of the second leaf?

    The distance between the spring perch bolts also measures 35 3/4" at the bottom, not 38 1/2" as noted by 19Fordy above.

    So, are any of you who have acceptable ride performance with a 4" axle using springs this short (36" or 35 3/4")???
     
  24. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Changed viewers from "members" to "everyone". Can you see the album now?
     
  25. deluxe40
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 16

    deluxe40
    Member
    from California

    Is this the CE kit style? The passenger side wishbone is VERY close to the transmission pan. So close that there is a notch filed in the wishbone. I can see daylight through the gap and no evidence of hitting, but it's close.

    \'40 Wishbone Mounts.jpg
     
  26. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,984

    Andy
    Member

    I have never been impressed with Posie's springs. I used to fool with springs a lot. I built some test rigs where I could test springs for capacity, movement, and rate. Posie's were usually very stiff. A stock 40 front spring has a rate of about 122#/in.side. It has a lot of arch. You can just look at a spring and tell if it will ride hard or soft. The more the arch, the softer the ride. Give me the leaf thicknesses, the overall length, and the number of leaves and I can tell you the rate of what you have.
     
    Fly'n Kolors likes this.
  27. Andy, do you have a recommendation for a 32 Roadster with a Chassis Engineering Axel ?

    I'm not all that happy with my Posies in that application.

     
  28. It looks to me that in your first picture that your spring shackle is straight out, I always thought that the shackle was to be angled to the ground a little?
     
  29. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,636

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    That is not a CE mount. The CE mount puts the tie rod ends straight up and also moves them out to under the frame rail which looks to allow a little more pan clearance. I agree that the spring appears too flat to me. Hopefully olscrounger will give his opinion as he has probably done more axle cars than anyone I know. Really like your tudor.
     
  30. Gene Boul
    Joined: Feb 9, 2006
    Posts: 805

    Gene Boul

    I think I see airplane shocks. If they are the extended gas-charged style the car will have virtually no "spring". Obviously if you want it to ride like an original 40 you might consider the shocks as well. I use the "houidille" style on my 38. They are off of a 39-40.
     

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