Projects 1940 American Bantam Woody Convertible Build

If you have spare frames, why not designate one of those as this car's frame and move things over to it as they get fixed? Are the a bit different?

Pics would help.

 

Thank you for the thought. I'll try to get some photos up. This frame is a 39 frame modified with 40 body mounts. The other three frames I have are a 40 truck frame, which is broken and severely bent, a 38 frame which is nice but doesn't have the 40 style body mounts that support the floor pan, and a 40 frame which I took the body mounts off of for this frame which has some issues which would prevent me from using it on an actual car. I guess this 39 frame is the best choice among what I have presently?

 

Sounds like the frame you have is best then. So you need a parking place for the body while you are finishing off the frame and chassis - it could be a table or another frame with some lumber crosspieces.

Sometimes I imagine taking it apart after its complete, in order to figure out what order things need to be finished in.

 

They've been a long time coming, but here are the photos of the body mounts for a 1940 American Bantam. The authenticity manual indicates that the rubber pads were 1/4" thick. I have found a source for cupped washers, which are unfortunately not the correct size. However, they are about .5" larger in diameter which may help with vibration insulation if I also use larger rubber discs. I still need to determine the size of the smaller cupped washers and bushings. Hopefully I'll have the mounts sorted out in a couple of weeks when I am finally ready for them.

 

I just read my first post. It has almost been two years since I started this project, although less in earnest. While it's a bit frustrating at times that I am not out and enjoying this car it is likewise exciting to see how far I've come. I'm really hoping to make significant progress this year. Hopefully I'll have a complete running chassis by spring and a body that is ready for wood work. At least most of the project is indoors and it isn't getting worse while I'm working on it. Contrary to some of my other cars, at least I don't lose progress on this one when I'm not working on it.

 

A lot of people often wonder how I'll get this car out of the garage. Unlike Henry Ford, I will not be using a sledge hammer; no matter how tempting it may be at times. Instead, it will go out as it came in, in pieces. I decided that the next step for me on the body is to strip it to bare metal, remove the quarters with wheel houses, and survey the damage.

The body is twisted at one body mount and entirely missing at another. Once I have this body cleaned, I'll be addressing those issues. While I haven't decided on how to strip the body yet, there are numerous options. Media blasting is an option, as are using stripping agents, hand stripping it, and using a grinder with different wheels. While media blasting may be easy, it is costly and a good portion of this body does not need to be blasted, it merely needs to be clean enough to find the spot welds. Chemicals don't sound pleasant. Hand stripping it sounds tedious. However, using a grinder sounds like it may be a decent option if I take the right precautions. With the body where it is now, I can at least make some efforts with a grinder and drag it out for media blasting if that doesn't work.

Also, even though this is a tiny car, it still is a pain to move on your own.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122178781397

You may want to talk to this guy? Trying to sell what he describes as a 39 Woody project - seems like a partial collection of parts and a dream to me.

 

Some guys pull asking prices out of their @$$3$.

 

It's a small update, but I finally trimmed the heads for the bolts that hold the rear shock mounts on. I can finally say that the rear shock mounts are finished. It's a nice feeling. I also slotted the holes in the water pump bracket to draw it 1/4" further away from the center of the engine so the water pump pulley will clear the radiator outlet. This required the slotting of another bracket which holds the bearing for the water pump shaft, but that was probably the easiest thing I did today.

Once that was together I started planning how I will create the upper bracket to retain the water pump shaft bearing. That bracket will take a bit of thinking to get right, but again, it's almost within reach.

As I said, small update, but at least there has been a little progress. I should be done with everything on the chassis by the middle of next week. Then I can start tearing it all down again. I picked up a different front fender support bracket which I think I'm going to end up using as it's significantly less pitted and looks much more like the standard production bracket.

Also, that woody on eBay could be a good project to follow up this project with, but as you can see I am not really working too quickly on this Bantam.

 

The rust removal is coming along decently so far. I've run through 1.5 abrasive disks already. I just need to get some WD-40 to keep everything from rusting. I'd try the Gibbs stuff recommended on every other thread, but it's extremely expensive.

 

As I'm sure you remember, the water pump is an artifact from this engine being a marine conversion of a Bantam engine. The marine engine had neither a standard radiator or a fan. Both of those additions have posed a few challenges. The first is that the pulley interferes with the radiator outlet. After elongating the holes on the water pump bracket, I was able to get a piece of rubber hose with a copper cap. I will be adding fittings so I can supply coolant to the pump through copper lines. As you can see, everything clears. However, if I lose a belt, I may have some issues....

 

The water pump was originally supported by three brackets. One securing it to the generator mount, and two supporting the bearing at the end of the shaft. One brace was mounted off of a bolt on the timing cover and did not interfere. It only needed one hole to be elongated to fit properly. However, the upper brace mounted off of the hole where the fan would mount on an automobile. There is some space between the fan pulley and the mount. My plan is to fit a bracket behind the fan pulley and get it to support the bearing cap.

One problem is the necessity of avoiding the generator and bridging the offset between the two mounting holes. I made a couple of templates to see how everything would fit. Note, fedex boxes provide excellent material for such templates due to their stiffness and moderate thickness. Also, Tractor Supply is a decent place to get steel on a Sunday.

Here is what I have so far. I need to locate and drill the holes. Once its roughed out the rest of the way, I can clean up the edges.

The last thing that needs to be cleared up to clear the water pump is to clearance one of the front fender supports. That will probably end up being nothing more than taking a grinder to an original bracket. If I get a little better with a cut off wheel, I may venture to make two new front brackets, then I don't need to worry about pitted or abused parts.

 

One final post for the night. I also finally finished hewing the wooden insert template to the shape I've been after. Below are a couple of pictures of the final wooden version and a rough copy of an original. Please keep in mind that the wooden one is merely a template which will be eventually cut out in brass and etched with some sort of pattern.

I'm not sure which shape I prefer yet, however I will probably make one of each and decide at the end of the build. However long from now that may be.

 

A little more progress before I give up on the project for a few days. I managed to rough out two of the front brackets that span between the frame and the front fender support bracket. One had to clear the water pump pulley. I considered grinding a notch out of the original bracket. Then I considered making a wider bracket with a notch. Early this morning, the thought came to me that merely making a longer bracket and giving it an extra bend would clear the pulley in a very clean way.

Lowes had steel in exactly the correct with. With a vice, a hammer, a pair of channel locks, and some finagling this piece came to be. I was going to just use the original piece on the passenger side, but it is fairly pitted and slightly thinner than the new bracket. So, I decided a nice new bracket would be the right way to go. I can't finish either off until I straighten out the fender support bracket.

 

Is there any reason the silver pulley (bottom right in last pic) can't be pulled in toward the block about 2-3 inches? Shorten the blue bar, re-bend and shorten the dark grey bar?

 

If not, I would consider welding a 90° stiffener along the entire length of that fender brace.

 

It had been a while and I forgot why I didn't try to push the pump inward toward the center of the engine. As it is oriented right now, the pump is clearing the crankcase by about a 1/4" which is about how far I was able to extend the bar.

I appreciate both of your thoughts and will see what I can do. I'm hoping that the other outer fender brace which hasn't been pictured will add some needed support.

 

Thanksgiving has come and gone, marking two full years of motion on this project. Interestingly, the project has almost come full circle. I now have a body sitting on the side in one work room and the nearly bare chassis sitting on stands in the other.

Aside from drilling two holes, I am about finished with the frame for the time being. Once everything is disassembled, I am going to start restoring the components of the rolling chassis. The frame will serve as a means to support the body properly while stabilizing it and preparing it it for transformation into a woody convertible. Some of the upcoming progress may not be the most interesting to watch, but keep following; maybe something interesting will happen.

 

With the engine out, I was finally able to enlarge the holes to mount the shock absorber brackets. I'm very happy with the fit of the passenger side but will need to relieve the drivers side piece a bit more to clear the rivets. There is also a space between the rear part of the bracket and the frame near the second mounting bolt. I really don't like the gap, so I'll have to come up with a spacer of some sort.

 

Happy holidays! It has been a busy few weeks which means it has been a slow few weeks on the Bantam. I did,however, have a chance to see Greginjax and see the incredible work he is doing on his Speedster. I wish I was smart enough to take a few photos.

While digging for parts, the shoe boxes I had many of them in disintegrated. Amazingly, at the start of this build, I didn't even have enough pieces to fill a single shoe box. When I filled two boxes, I was amazed. Now, there are so many pieces, I need to sort them all to make sure I am using the best of my junk on this build.

Target had a sale on plastic storage bins. I picked up three and a bunch of zip lock bags. So far, these new boxes have coaxed me into disassembling the front end. Most of its pieces seem to fit in a single plastic box. It's really nice having everything separated so I can concentrate my attention on one piece at a time.

Parts in a box aren't very exciting, but I'll upload a few photos tomorrow.

 

There is now a box of chassis parts and another of interior/body parts. I'm still going, but it's so strange cataloging this project into bins of dissected pieces. The original challenge of this project was to find all of the Bantam bits I needed to build a car out of a stripped down junker. The next challenge was bolting it all together and finding a way to make everything fit properly. Now, it looks like it's time to start refinishing all of the bits to get them back into shape for use on a car again. I have a feeling that this stage will be the most tedious of all.

As I'm going through all of my parts, curating them into some sort of logical collections, I am realizing all that will really need to be done. From slicing and dicing shock absorber arms to repairing worn lumps on a steering wheel. No part of this car is really going to be untouched.

By the end of this week, I will have a bare frame sitting on a concrete floor. I am considering cutting out the brake actuation bar so I can assemble a new one with 40 style components and bushings to take out the slop. I may also cut out the bent rear cross member and replace it with a commercial style piece. Either way, the frame will be put aside while I continue to strip the body to bare metal and transform it into a platform for a woody convertible. Then, I plan on mounting the body to this frame to ensure it's properly supported while bracing it all together. In between grinding and repairing the body, I am planning on redoing all of the other bits of the car so they can essentially just be bolted on when I'm ready for them. Although some of this may get boring, I plan on posting as much as I can so you know the project is still alive.

Happy New Year!

 

It's fun to watch a ground-up build like this.

I'd suggest adding a little strength to the frame at this point too. An extra crossmember? Boxing plates perhaps? Not everywhere, just every 6-12 inches add a plate to keep rails from twisting?

 

BuiltFerComfort, I'm glad you're enjoying! I enjoy these kinds of threads too.

I've thought about boxing certain parts of the car, primarily the radius rods. The frame does had a good deal of flex to it depending on how it is supported. The convertibles have additional metal which outlines the body and connects two of the cross members of the frame. Once I get the two mocked up properly, I'll try to get an idea of what other additional supports may be necessary. One owner of a Hollywood mentioned some flex in the loaded car which causes the door frame to shift, I'd really like to avoid that.

 

The frame is part of the suspension on most of this era's cars, which also needs to be considered. A stiffer frame and softer suspension works on modern roads, it would shake itself apart or bottom out a lot on 1940's roads. You still need to be able to handle curbs and potholes, but you'll have mostly paved roads in your favor.

 

BuiltFerComfort- You are absolutely correct. It's easy to lose sight of why certain things were done the way they were. I think I may only consider boxing the weak radius arms at most at this point. I'm hoping that adding support similar to the factory in the rockers will be just what I need.

 

I think I finally figured out the body mount cupped washers. The upper cupped washer is larger in diameter than the original, but that will allow for a larger bushing, I'm okay with that. It was very difficult to find a washer with a similar profile to the original. For the lower cupped washer, I narrowed it down to two choices. More than likely, I will use the washer having a larger diameter yet the more flared profile. From the photo of the original mounts, I believe I will need a washer to go between the lower cupped washer and the double nuts. Considering the original application of these washers, I definitely will not skip the nice heavy washer so to ensure that the natural movement of the floor relative to the frame doesn't distort the lower piece. By the way, cupped washers are very difficult to find. If you need any, you will most likely need to search for washers specifically made for particular applications. I searched all sorts of things from roller skates to Volkswagens before finally finding these which are the most proximate to the originals I could find.

Once I get the rubber material, I will be ready to mount my body onto the frame so I can start straightening, bracing, and modifying the body. Slowly but surely...

 

The chassis is now completely bare and leaning against a wall. After spending so much time turning my bare frame into a complete non-running chassis, it's so strange seeing it become almost nothing again. However, unlike when I started, I now have almost every piece to put the chassis back together. It's all now a matter of refurbishing, rebuilding, refinishing, and painting. Besides needing to fabricate a few pieces and replace a few fasteners, I'm in pretty good shape.

Now, I'll turn my attention to the body. It is going to require a lot of work, but with the bare frame serving as a template for straightness, hopefully I'll get it going on the right track. Up next, simultaneously rebuilding all of the chassis components and finishing the steel parts of the main body. There should be enough varieties of work to be done to keep me busy for a while.

 

Did you catch this woody wagon in the Barrett-Jackson broadcast?


Sorry for the lousy cell phone pics. I had just walked in the room and scrambled to capture those.

 

Peanut, for cell phone pics of the tv, those are fantastic! That's one sweet car. I just saw what it went for as well as the other Bantams, it's crazy that it went for less than half of what the pickup went for. Great to see a Bantam in the lime light! Thanks for sharing the photos.

 

With a few minutes to breathe and some space, I took to the body again. It's amazing how quickly something can overwhelm you with all of the details that must be considered in order to accomplish something that seems superficially simple. Right now, I'm covered in WD-40 from rustproofing the bare steel I uncovered today while trying to figure out how this body goes together.

While the donor body looks pretty good, it has a lot of damage to the already thin steel. As a happy coincidence, a club member stamped out a few sets of floors and parcel shelves. I originally wanted to use my original floors, but this is going to be a convertible. Since every bend, bead, and ornamentation on this body was meant to strengthen it, weak steel should be replaced as much as possible. The only issue is, I'm realizing that the rockers are shot, the inner cowl needs to be patched, and the fire wall needs to be straightened.

I long ago decided that this would be the car that I try to do right, no short cuts, no closing my eyes to repairable defects. So, I'm no longer going to just figure out how to graft the wheel houses from the Riviera onto this. I'm essentially going to entirely rebuild this body. Perhaps you saw this coming, but I didn't.

On the bright side, this should keep this build thread interesting! Metal work here I come!