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Features 1937 to 1942 Willys Picture Thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hot Rod Willys, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. Hot Rod Willys
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,697

    Hot Rod Willys
    Member
    from Ohio

    I found this to be interesting, thought I would share it here.

    <CENTER>[SIZE=+4]Willys[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+3]How where when and why[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+3]Information gathered and found through friends and the internet.[/SIZE]
    <HR width="100%" SIZE=5>
    [SIZE=+2]Below is an email received on the 6th March 2007[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The Feb. 22 issue of Old Cars has a letter from Steve Murphy, owner, DesertClassics.com, Butte, Mont. about an all original 1937 Willys five-window coupe he recently acquired in Australia. He states the five-window coupe was only offered in Australia; all US coupes were three window.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]He also states Willys were built under license in Australia in the 1930s and '40s using US made Willys stamping dies.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Is the last statement true?[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+3]One reply[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]As I understand it in the 1930s and up until 1941, Australian Willys production was carried out on imported RHD SKD (Semi Knock Down) complete chassis assemblies with full mechanical components, front sheet metal, running boards (where applicable) and rear guards being supplied by Willys Overland Inc. of Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A. to various overseas licensees. Initially and up until the end of 1936, in Australia, this appears to be solely to Holden Motor Bodies Pty. With introduction of the Model 37 in 1937 and the emergence of Willys Overland Inc. from Chapter XI bankruptcy protection, the list of Australian manufacturers was expended to include Flood's, Hope Body Builders, Mitchell's, T.J. Richards and possible Stokoe Motors - although the latter, as an authorized Willys dealer, may have commissioned their variants from another unidentified body builder. As the majority of these Australian bodies were coach built, it is unlikely that they was any great use of stamping dies and indeed the 1936 Model year of the Model 77 produced by Holden was in fact based on the Vauxhall CX body.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+2]The practice of building domestic bodies - unique to Australian production was necessitated by the projectionist import tariffs imposed by the Australian government on the import of complete cars.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The statement "He also states Willys were built under license in Australia in the 1930s and 40s (sic) using US made stamping dies" needs to be dissected for the purposes of this examination. It is correct that complete Willys based vehicles were built under license in Australia in the 1930s and 1940s.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]It is the latter claim in this sentence "using US made stamping dies" that is the issue of contention:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Reply[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]I find the contention that Australian production used U.S. made stamping dies pure conjecture and have yet to see any documentary evidence. This would appear to be another 'throwaway remark' based on wishful thinking and lack of proper research by the author. Legally it would be called 'hearsay' - in popular parlance it is called 'urban legend'. I put the author to irrefutable documentary proof of his wild and unsubstantiated conjecture.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The end[/SIZE]
    <HR width="100%" SIZE=10></CENTER>
    [SIZE=+2]Here are the list of Aussie Model 77 body styles - 1933/34 all built by Holden I believe:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Roadster[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Tourer[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Sedan/saloon[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Sport coupe (fabric top - 34Wly01.jpg)[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Roadster utility[/SIZE] <CENTER><HR width="100%" SIZE=5></CENTER>[SIZE=+2]1936 was different then 1935 body styles with the addition of a closed cab Ute.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The Ute being distinguishable from the USA Pickup by its suicide doors and bed integral with the cab.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+2]1936[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The sedans and Tourers got an integral boot/trunk (Frankpic04). The Integral boot lid was an option.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Holden still supplied 1936 bodies without a boot as a carry over from 1935 bodies.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The open cars got fixed windscreen posts - not bolt on as in previous open models.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The sport coupe was discontinued and replaced by the 3 window (Vauxhall CX based) coupe//[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]I have never been able to confirm this furphy. The Vauxhall and Willys coupe bodies where indeed constructed side by side at Holden and no doubt a few mouldings or sections of pressings ended up being used between the makes but the bodies and doors etc. were not interchangeable. At best it could only be said that the Willys body was styled from the Vauxhall or perhaps the other way around.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Sammy Cooper's ex John De Vries 77 3W coupe is NOT a 1933 - this body sytyle was not built until 1936 and actually used a modified Vauxhall CX coupe body with 1936 Willys front sheet metal. About 60 of these were built. J De V put 1933 front sheet metal on it sometime in the early 80's.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Differences between 1936 Willys and Vauxhall bodies[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]-Vauxhall body has tail shaft tunnel in floor pan but Willys body doesn't;[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]-Vauxhall wheel tub pressings have squared off corners while Willys are rounded;[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]-Rear mudguards will not interchange because Willys guards have a tighter radius at the body and Vauxhall guards are longer to the rear;[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]-Vauxhall body has a solid roof whereas Willys uses an insert.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The 1936 Willys roadster is a 1936 Vauxhall CX body with Willys front sheet metal sat on a Willys 77 chassis.[/SIZE] <CENTER>[SIZE=+2]Same applies to the 1936 Willys 3 window coupe - Vauxhall CX with nose job.[/SIZE]
    <HR width="100%" SIZE=5>
    [SIZE=+2]It gets more complex from 1937 to 1942 as there were half a dozen body builders making Willys - Holden's, Floods, TJ Richards, Hope Body Builders(Qld), Mitchells, Stokoe ....[/SIZE] <HR width="100%" SIZE=5>
    [SIZE=+2]A History lesson on 39 Willys by Ted Robinette[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2] 37 was a reasonable year for Willys sales wise so they bumped up production for 38.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2] 38 turned out not to be to sales expectations to being resourceful Willys came up with a plan to use up all unsold 38 Willys bodies and parts[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2] including front sheet metal and the 48 hp engine during the following 1939 model year.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]A model year that saw a major competitor releasing hydraulic brakes and Willys had to be seen to keeping up [or vice versa ].[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2] Willys did release the 1939 model with new 61 hp engine and hydraulic brakes along with new pointier style front sheet metal and called it the 'Overland' to distinguish it from the lower cost 1939 Model 48 which in most regards was a carried over 1938 model including the 1938 front sheet metal and mechanical brakes. The engine was virtually the same as the 48 hp version first introduced in the 1933 Willys 77. In case the penny hasn't dropped the vehicle was called the Model 48 to denote it had the earlier 48 hp engine fitted whereas the Overland had the new 61 hp version fitted.[/SIZE][SIZE=+2][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]With the front sheetmetal, body plus mechanical brakes and 48 hp engine being the same as a 1938 Model 38 the way to distinguish it from a 1939 Model 48 is to check the instrument panel. If round instruments are fitted it is a 1938 Model 38, if a rectangular instrument panel is fitted it is a 1939 Model 48.[/SIZE][SIZE=+2][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Their practice was to weld up the two round instrument holes in the dash panel and then cut it out to accept the rectangular 1939 Overland instrument cluster.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Often you can feel the welds behind the dash panel where the filler pieces were welded in.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]The Model 48 retained the 1938 Model 38 glove box design and did not adopt the rectangular flat glove box doors of the Overland.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2] Stokoe Motors In Melbourne offered the option of Overland front sheet metal on Model 48's[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]so there are a few 1939 Model 48's with the 48 hp engine and mechanical brakes but with[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]the pointier Overland front sheet metal around just to confuse the issue.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]Conversely in the years since many owners have swapped in the 1939 and later hydraulic brakes under Model 48's and 37's, 38's but factory wise the Model 39 Overland was the first Willys with hydraulic brakes.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]1939 Overland had 102 inch wheelbase Model 37/38/48 was 100 inches.[/SIZE]</CENTER>
    [SIZE=+2]1939 Overland was the start of the 5 stud [4.5" pcd] wheels/hubs. Model 48 of 1939 continued with the 4 stud [4" pcd] wheels.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]A point of interest on the wheelbase subject all 1939 -1942 Flood bodied Tourers used the Model 48 chassis, but with hydraulic brakes, and therefore had a shorter wheelbase than equivalent year sedans, coupes and utes in Australia. I understand that USA manufactured Willys in these years also retained the earlier shorter wheelbase for the Pickup versions.[/SIZE] <CENTER>[SIZE=+2]Comments from another Willys Enthusiast[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]With the debate on what was produced first between the 36 Willys and the 36 Vauxhall.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]It is interesting to me to see that popular opinion is the Willys was made after the Vauxhall. Surely Holden would not have gone backwards in their development. I refer to the Vauxhall having a filled in solid roof.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2]I believe that many companies were trying to press turrets in a one piece stamping and it makes no sense to me for Holden after solving the solid roof problem for them to go back to the more time consuming and labour intensive soft centre as in the Willys. I therefore contend that the Willys in actual fact came first. (Chicken and Egg situation).[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+2] Bob Waddilove.[/SIZE]
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  2. 1940 Willys Coupe
    Joined: Oct 12, 2006
    Posts: 337

    1940 Willys Coupe
    Member
    from Texas

    Damn! How about that video of that chopped top willys running a screaming small block with a four speed. Go man! Go!

    1940 Willys Coupe
     
  3. ME.GASSER
    Joined: Sep 18, 2007
    Posts: 3,586

    ME.GASSER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very cool video.
     
  4. Steelking22
    Joined: Jun 3, 2010
    Posts: 47

    Steelking22
    Member

    "I took these pics 10 years ago of a nice old coupe that got turned into a pro streeter.........:confused: "

    PRO-STREET - THE LEISURE SUIT OF THE RODDING LIFESTYLE!
     
  5. 1940 Willys Coupe
    Joined: Oct 12, 2006
    Posts: 337

    1940 Willys Coupe
    Member
    from Texas

    Damn, Part 2

    Just can't get over that chopped top willys video. Watched it about ten times yesterday. Came to work this morning, watched it some more.
    Man that car and those rpm's. If you want to know what things are about watch this video, tells the whole story.
    Not bragging but cool thing for me is I can watch this video, leave work and go home and get in my 40 Coupe and do the same thing.
    It gets no better than this. Hell! at this point in life I would put it above sex!
    Every time I get in my car, prime those injectors and light the candles it never fells to get me excited even after all these years. Fire it up, car is shaking, sounding good. Like Don Prudomme said, "Damn! and think its all right there at your right foot. Thanks again for the great video!
    Go man Go!

    1940 Willys Coupe
     
  6. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 1,642

    drumyn29
    Member

    That chopped coupe is damn fast for a small block, what number did it run in the 1/4?
     
  7. xracer40
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 303

    xracer40
    Member

    First off,thanks to Quain Stott for digging up the video. I don't know what kind of times he ran with car although if you listen closely at the end of the video I think the announcer is saying 6.55. The first time I saw the car was at Bristol in the late 70's and it was the same as you see in the video. I think it ran in the low 10's,I was more impressed with front wheels grabbing air in third gear!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  8. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,708

    Weasel
    Member


    Dave - for the record - and I have edited out the bulk of the information for brevity's sake:


    The response posted by Ted Robinette is accurate. Ted is a close friend of mine and stayed with me for a month in 2008. Ted knows more about Willys than pretty much anyone else on planet Earth and makes me look like a rookie in things Willys. He has however omitted two models in the Australian Willys 77 line up for 1936 - photos of both of which I have posted in the 1933 to 1936 Willys thread: a Holden bodied five window coupe and a Panel Van. Bob Waddilove is also a decades long Australian Willys diehard and his kids have inherited the disease.

    The 1937 production in Australia was prolific as more body/coachbuilders started using the Willys model 37 as a platform. Over the years later front sheetmetal of the 1940 and 1941 styles has been grafted onto 1937 bodies and this has given cause to much of the speculation and conjecture as to who produced what and when. It would take far too long to list what was built, by whom and when, but you can take Ted's response pretty much as gospel on this....


    </center>
     
  9. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    33 and 41 gettin it !
     

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  10. WillysRule
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 799

    WillysRule
    Member
    from Central FL

    Man, it sounds like the tach needle may have needed a few more digits to register those revs. I bet it was pegged for sure. Pretty awesome.
     
  11. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    Tac it up baby !!! :D
     

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  12. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    S.w.c. And co.:D
     

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  13. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    Re: B/GAS Willys
     

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  14. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    K.S. Pittman :eek:
     

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  15. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,708

    Weasel
    Member

    Just posted some pix of my current build on another Willys thread so thought I would update the Holy Grail of all Willys threads. Here are some progress shots of Weasel's Anti Gasser....

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Should be painted in a month or so and waiting on the engine build and some custom fabrication to adapt the butterfly type Weber IDA style throttle bodies to the slide injection bases to make the engine streetable. No holes in the hood on this one - just the pure deco glory of the 440 De Luxe....;)

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    HEY WEAS.. WHATS THAT THING IN FRONT THE WINDSHIELD ABOUT 8 INCHES THICK ? IS THAT AN ORIGINAL FIREWALL ?:confused: DONT THINK I EVER SEEN ONE ...SO THEY DO EXIST WOW :rolleyes: CAR LOOKS TUFF BRO !!!
     
  17. hershambob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,317

    hershambob
    Member

    weasel.is that the car that was in biffos when you had your flood?
     
  18. hershambob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,317

    hershambob
    Member

  19. hershambob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,317

    hershambob
    Member

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    from when i went to thompson a few years back
     
  20. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,708

    Weasel
    Member

    Yep Bob - that's the one.
     
  21. Hot Rod Willys
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,697

    Hot Rod Willys
    Member
    from Ohio

    I was getting everything ready this morning to wire my 41 nose and cant find a part anywhere that I need before I can do much of anything, hoping one of you have an extra one I could buy, trade or borrow till I find another. The headlight buckets have a wire seal retainer bolted to the top, not sure what all years but I know 40-42. I have one (pictured) but need one more, I am sending this to all my Willys contacts in hopes they have one or know who to send me to. Thanks.........Dave.
     

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  22. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,708

    Weasel
    Member

    Dave I have that part but it is attached to a headlight bucket. Let me know if you can not find another and I will remove it.
     
  23. hemipwd41willys
    Joined: Mar 18, 2010
    Posts: 165

    hemipwd41willys
    Member
    from Wyoming

    Dave,
    I have one for you that is on a bucket that has some rust issues. I will have to work at getting the piece removed tonight after work. P.M. your shipping info and i will get it sent out to you.
    Ken,
     
  24. bobwop
    Joined: Jan 13, 2008
    Posts: 6,081

    bobwop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    nice to see all working together for the betterment of the Willys cause
     
  25. Hot Rod Willys
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,697

    Hot Rod Willys
    Member
    from Ohio

    Bob and all Willys owners.

    Its a small world this Willys group. When your building one you realize how tough it is to find items. I feel very blessed to be part of this wonderful group. I am contacted at least once a week from others looking for items and we all help each other. Just like the items I just bought from you, thanks! If anybody has any extra 37-42 original parts no matter how small please PM me so I can help others. I will make a list and forward the info to anyone who contacts me. I will not be a middle man just put the buyer and seller in contact.
     
  26. hemipwd41willys
    Joined: Mar 18, 2010
    Posts: 165

    hemipwd41willys
    Member
    from Wyoming

    Dave,
    Got the piece removed from the bucket, cleaned it up and in the mail this morning. Sent it priority so you should see it by Friday.
    Ken,
     
  27. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    nice truck
     

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  28. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    41 truck ramdumis and moore
     

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  29. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    nice glass baby !
     

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  30. Sky Pilot
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 697

    Sky Pilot
    Member

    Running bad !!! Missing a little BIT :)
     

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