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Projects 1936 plymouth coupe swap help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 0nedon, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. 0nedon
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 290

    0nedon
    Member

    20190407_173909[1].jpg 20190612_104753[1].jpg Hello Guys, I picked up this old 36 coupe a few months ago, engine bad. I also have had this old 54?? belvedere for some time. I was wondering if some of you ply. guys could give me any info. on what all I could use off the 54, the 54 has 3 speed with overdrive. The wheel base seems to be within 1/2" of each other and the rear springs are the same width. I know the front spring set up is different. Could a guy possibly just put the 36 body on the 54 frame or are they to different? I'm not restoring the car just would like to get it going for a cool ride. Thanks for any help
     
  2. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhh no,

    Just fix the coupe body/frame transplant the motor trans, rear if it all fits,,,
     
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  3. abe lugo
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 2,116

    abe lugo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't change the chassis, that will definitely not work and it would be hokey.
    Pull the engine and tranny, transplant it into the '36, make sure to save all the hardware that goes to the OD from dash. You may as well pull all the associated pedals and stuff for use later if you need them. You may have to modify your floor board for the shifter placement.
    I would recommend trying to use the OD with the more modern 6 cylinder.
    Check the width on the 54 rear, you may be able to use it also, might as well save the driveshaft or have one made.

    The '36 is a much simpler chassis, just go with it. You should be able to clean it up keep a stock looking chassis.
     
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  4. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,759

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    My expectation (based on familiarity with the '49/'56 Plymouth frame) is that the frame rail contours, both horizontal and vertical, are considerably different. Transplanting the power train would provide the easiest, fastest and like most satisfying result. The front suspension of the later Plymouth really does drive quite nicely and it may be worth investigating adapting the front cross member to the '36 chassis. But even that requires some careful measuring and evaluation before proceeding. The stock '36 suspension upgraded with improved springs, shocks and brakes could very well result in a nice driving car for reasonable money and effort.
     
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  5. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 437

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Do what......?
     
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  6. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,432

    gene-koning
    Member

    Swapping frames is a royal pain, for little benefit between the 54 and the 36.
    Swapping the motor and OD trans from the 54 into the 36 is basic hot rodding. Pull the front sheet metal off both and swap in the parts you need. Reinstall as much of the 36 sheet metal as you feel you need, and get to driving. Gene
     
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  7. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,854

    BJR
    Member

    You have a good body and frame, just move the motor and transmission.
     
  8. hkestes
    Joined: May 19, 2007
    Posts: 539

    hkestes
    Member
    from Plano, TX

    You will need to swap the steering column as well. The 36 is a floor shift while the 54 is 3 on the column. The alternative is to build a floor shift for the 54 transmission. Moose on here built one so you may be able to get some pointers from him.

    Your 36 flathead is an 82 horsepower 201 and the 54 is either a 100 horsepower 218 or a 110 horsepower 230. Either way a step up from the original. There are "speed" parts (new and vintage) out there for the flatheads that can up the performance somewhat and give you a good conversation starter that is not just like every other engine you come across. This was the 230 I had in my 48 Plymouth coupe that was my daily driver for about 5 years. [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,427

    classiccarjack
    Member

    You got some sound advice from everyone. Depending on the size of the front brake drums on the 54, I probably won't change nothing either on the stock frame and suspension on the 1937. The 54 rear end with will most likely not be a issue, but you should always measure first. The later flatheads had more power, and the Overdrive's are a big help to maintain highway speeds. Please keep us informed as to how you build it.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  10. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,427

    classiccarjack
    Member

    That sir, is freaking awesome!!! I plan on running a 230 with a George Ashe Jr 2x1 BBL intake, Fenton cast headers, and a 1960 head that I will mill to get desired compression. It should propel my 1938 Plymouth well. Thanks for sharing.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. 0nedon
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 290

    0nedon
    Member

    Thanks for all the info. and advice. We will be pulling the engine tranny and rearend today. Ive found a pretty nice grill for it ,taillights, and headlites. Plan for right now is to just get her back road ready and keep her a survivor. The org. tranny is topshifter and I think the 54 will be side linkage?? Thanks again guys
     
  12. 0nedon
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 290

    0nedon
    Member

    missed hkestes post a mnute ago - he already confirmed what I thought about the tranny. I'll check out the stearing collum but I would rather keep it on the floor. Say hkestes could you tell me how to find how the fella made the floor shifter? Does anyone know of any other options - to put a floor shift on the 54 tranny? Thanks
     
  13. hkestes
    Joined: May 19, 2007
    Posts: 539

    hkestes
    Member
    from Plano, TX

  14. 0nedon
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 290

    0nedon
    Member

    Well Guys - we got the engine and tranny out. Did get a set back though, when I got the rad. out and was able to get a socket on the crank nut _ motor stuck. I'm not in a big rush so we went ahead and pulled all of it and put marvel mystery oil and diesel 50/50 in it and will let it set for awhile. Thinking about a 318 and an auto. tranny, if the 6 don't work out. Can anyone tell me if a 318 and automatic will go in fairly easy ( with out having to move the fire wall?). Like I said earlier the old car has sat over 40 years and I would like to get it where when I' gone someone else will see potential and want to take it to the next step. 20190614_174211[1].jpg
     
  15. Pats55
    Joined: Apr 29, 2013
    Posts: 236

    Pats55
    Member
    from NJ

    That's a great looking car.
     
  16. abe lugo
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 2,116

    abe lugo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    a 318 should go in, you need to remove the cross member for the pedals. You need the generic motor mounts kit and a rear tranny cross member added. In this case you will most likely need to update the rearend (because you lose the handbrake on the transmission), a Mopar 8.75 would be the way to go. By that time you are building a hotrod all the sudden. The easier way is just to stick with the inline 6.
     
  17. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,759

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    I can offer some suggestions on making a floor shift for the ‘54 trans. I did one in 1962 and it worked well enough. That trans was not O/D, but it’s still doable, just a bit more crowded in the tailshaft area.

    Tonight or tomorrow I will do a couple of sketches and post here. Others have done it too, as noted above. They all end doing the same thing but may vary a bit in details.

    As for the stuck engine......for the price of a head gasket, I’d suggest pulling the head and seeing first hand what you are dealing with. Light rust can stick it, but is fairly easily dealt with. Serious rust and/or corrosion is another matter.

    If the block is usable with a clean up, you also should pull the water pump and replace the water distribution tube that extends the length of the block and is important to proper cooling. They were made of sheet metal and after all these years it may be gone entirely. Which brings up another suggestion. Remove all the block core plugs (aka ‘freeze’ plugs) and thoroughly power wash the water passages. Poke around with coat hanger wire and/or other probe and get the loose rust and scale out of there.

    Don’t worry about getting the cylinders wet or dirty, that can be cleaned up quite well before reassembly.

    I have been fooling with old Mopars for several decades and have a fondness for them, even though I have GM, Studebaker and Ford in my current and past history as well. Ecumenical is what the religious folks call that, I think. ;)

    Ray

    EDIT: if you decide to go with another engine choice, that O/D trans is, or at least was, in demand among Plymouth restorers and is worth advertising for sale in appropriate forums.......
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  18. hkestes
    Joined: May 19, 2007
    Posts: 539

    hkestes
    Member
    from Plano, TX

    If you are interested, I have a rebuildable 0.030 over 218 in my garage that you can have. It was in my daily driver 48 Plymouth until 2011 when it broke a valve. I already had a 230 built and ready to go so just swapped them and it has been in my garage ever since. The engine turns over easily.

    The head, intake and exhaust manifolds are gone, but the ones you have will bolt right up. You should also be able to pull the valves out of your block to replace the broken one in the 218.

    Your OD transmission will bolt up to this 218 as well using your bellhousing.
     
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  19. 0nedon
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 290

    0nedon
    Member

    Thank you for your offer hkestes - I'm going to see if mine will free up, the old fella I bought the car from said it ran good before parking it. The spark plugs look to be almost new also. I will do what hnstray suggested and pull the head in a couple days and see just how bad it looks. I may message you about your engine though as I have a friend in Ok. and could give the wife an excuse to go visit him and you. Big thanks to both of you.
     
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  20. hkestes
    Joined: May 19, 2007
    Posts: 539

    hkestes
    Member
    from Plano, TX

    One other thing I failed to mention is that if yours is a 230, you can swap the 230 crank and rods into a 218 block and have a 230. You do have to use the 230 flywheel in this case because of the crank flange is slightly thicker on the 230.

    The bore and bore spacing on the 230 and 218 is the same only the stroke was different.
     
  21. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 4,559

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

  22. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 4,559

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

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