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1936 Ford Flathead V8 build thread

Discussion in 'The Antiquated' started by Christopher Miller, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,510

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Yes, welcome to the world of thin metal.
    Get yourself a copper pipe.
    Many of them at different lengths.
    Flatten it with a Hammer.
    Clamp this flattened pipe to the backside of your welding joint. Make sure it’s tight against the seam.
    Now weld the seam up.
    The copper acts like a heat sink keeping heat off your sheet metal and provides a backing where your gaps are too large.
    Weld in small beads and move around giving your welds time to cool before continuing the seam.
    Clean clean clean your metal. A lot of times it’s better to open up the good metal farther to be sure it’s thick enough.
    Both sides should be clean.
    Your really should be sandblasting these areas.
    Rust will return. Fancy rust prohibitive paint is just a band aid.
    I love your tenacity.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
    biggeorge and Christopher Miller like this.
  2. Thank you so so much for this. All these tips and tricks I had no clue about. I’ll try and do this next time I get to welding.
    Also I know a lot have mentioned sand blasting. I’m looking around and I know one friend of mine who has a sand blaster and I’m trying to see if he’ll let me borrow it for a while. Thank you again!
     
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  3. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,146

    Mart
    Member

    You could try just setting up some pieces of metal and practising. The welds look like there is no shielding gas. I assume you have MIG with separate gas? If flux core I have no experience of that. Make sure you have a good earth. You are doing what are quite difficult welds. Thin sheet metal, vertical. A good tip I learnt years ago is make sure you have a good mask, and can really stare straight at the pool of the weld. Put tacks at intervals, dotting all around and then slowly fill in the gaps between with more tacks/short beads until there are no gaps left.

    If you're butt welding you can get inexpensive clamps that look like a piece of 1" square tube with a bolt and a strap through. They can help.

    Best of luck, practise makes perfect.
     
  4. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,510

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

  5. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 584

    Ziggster
    Member

    I've had my fair share of welding on rusty thin sheet metal, especially on exhaust systems. If the metal is rusty, and thin, it is very easy to blow right through it. Where practical, as suggested already, cut further back, if not, try to build up on areas that you already managed to get a bead laid. It is time consuming, but you do what you have to do.
    If using a flux core machine, I'm guessing there is even less shielding gas available than with gas, and again if welding outside, even the slightest breeze will leave you with no shielding gas. If that is the case, try to set up some sort of wind break close to the area you are welding with some scrap steel.
    As far as sand blasting, that is really the only solution in your case with so much heavy rust. You can start with just a gun (suction type), and a bucket of media as opposed to a pressurized pot blaster. The only issue, and it is a big one, is that you need a big compressor. Mine puts out about 14 CFM at 90 psi, and I would say this is about the minimum for such a job as yours. Of course, you can get away with a smaller commpressor, but then it kind of becomes impractical due to the "wait" time for the pressure to build up. When you are sand blasting, you are releasing an incredible amount of air under a lot of pressure. If you do decide to try sand blasting, get the proper personal protective gear, and DON'T actually use sand due to health risks. I really like glass media.
    Also, look into a weldable zinc "primer" paint for those inaccessible areas. In even the best of circumstances, rust will return, it is just a matter of how long it will take. Clean the metal as best you can after welding. Use wire wheels if you have to, and then get a quality self-sketching primer, and then cover with regular primer.
     
  6. I think I may have run out of gas. I’ve noticed a slight change lately, I’ll look into it. Also I’ll post a picture of my welder and the setup next time I can get out so you all can see it and understand some.


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  7. I do work outside and often with a breeze so having a non-windy area has been difficult.

    Also with a sand blaster I just need the machine as the compressor I have is quite large. It’s about as tall as I am and I’m 5’8”. I have a good mask and protection, I’ll look into the glass instead of sand as well.

    This information has been very helpful thank you!


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  8. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,849

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The sand blasting leaves a silica like residue on the panel and if you run a flap wheel or wire wheel across it it welds better.
    I am glad to see you are using proper protection. On thin sheet metal i use E70S6 wire 023 in diameter and 75/25 gas and i do use a copper backup. Horrible Freight has these. I have a copper buss bar for backup that I got out of a old electrical panel I scrapped out. Don’t give up it just takes patience and practice.
     
    Christopher Miller likes this.
  9. Also to anyone who may see this post some day down the road I will need to assess this issue and wondering how to go about it.

    Preferably would like to replace the whole Grill with a new one but I’ve looked and looked and they’re either selling for hundreds which is more than I want to pay, or they’re cheap and gone before I can get to them.

    As for fixing it myself it’s quite a difficult piece that I just don’t think I’d be able to get right. I’d love to have original but I think the grill insert itself may be some new type of pattern.



    Maybe If I can get a damaged grill that still had the bottom in decent shape would be nice. I can just cut out that bottom and weld it onto mine??

    Let me hear your suggestions please. I’m not planning on fixing it soon just has me thinking
    Adjustments.JPG



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  10. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,146

    Mart
    Member

    If you can up your welding skills you could do the grille yourself, with a small steel piece let in. Maybe better leave that for a bit. When welding, always hold the gun by your ear and listen for the gas hissing through. On my Cebora machine the gas comes through first and you pull the trigger further for the wire and sparks. Try to get into that habit if you have any doubt re the gas.

    If you have run out of gas that would explain it. Pert of the learning experience is to recognise that and stop. The welds without gas are not proper welds.

    Keep going, it looks like you are heading in the right direction.

    Mart.
     
    Christopher Miller likes this.
  11. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 584

    Ziggster
    Member

    The metal at the bottom could be replaced with some practice with metal forming tools. The vertical bars appear to be too far gone though. For some inspiration on what someone around your age is capable of. Check out this link.

     
    Christopher Miller likes this.
  12. The rims for the truck came in today. They’re large to say the least. Grey is just the primer, we’ll be painting them eventually

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  13. Old transmission came out today. I have plans to go get a replacement next Saturday. In the mean time I’ll clean up everything in this vicinity while I have it all apart

    [​IMG][​IMG] IMG_1215.JPG


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  14. Made the drive up to Michigan today to purchase a new transmission. This window frame found its way home as well IMG_1310.JPG Adjustments.JPG


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    Boryca likes this.
  15. Here’s an update on the overhead piece that goes in the cab, after realizing there was way more to be replaced on this piece I went back and replaced much more metal. Almost done with sanding just wanted to post an update. I’ll be purchasing a sand blaster soon that I’ll take to the back before painting it all. I probably will end up using a more rust protective paint on the back and primer+ color paint on the front

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    All of the crappy metal to come out

    IMG_1254.JPG




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    simplestone likes this.
  16. Lot of work there. I admire your tenacity. You are doing a good job saving the ol' girl.
     
    Christopher Miller likes this.
  17. This is my last big issue regarding the rust on this cab and I saved it for last just because of how intimidating it seemed. I thought and thought about it and i probably didn’t do it the way you would have but here’s how it went.

    The rust I was dealing with
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    What I drew up

    IMG_1348.JPG

    Here’s some of what I ended up with
    IMG_1349.JPG IMG_1351.JPG IMG_1352.JPG IMG_1354.JPG

    Showing what it looks like compared to original
    IMG_1357.JPG
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    I then cut the outer piece out
    IMG_1358.JPG

    A side by side with the old, crazy difference
    IMG_1360.JPG

    This what I ended up with at the end of welding it up. I’m no welder, I’m just glad to get this done

    IMG_1364.JPG IMG_1365.JPG IMG_1366.JPG IMG_1367.JPG IMG_1368.JPG IMG_1369.JPG

    If you were wondering what those other small two pieces were, they’re to go behind as I have in this picture
    IMG_1363.JPG



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  18. Greg Rogers
    Joined: Oct 11, 2016
    Posts: 221

    Greg Rogers
    Member

    Good job! Your welds look like mine. We are both learning. You know what makes a good welder don't you?? -----A grinder!!
     
    Christopher Miller likes this.
  19. Yes exactly!


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    biggeorge likes this.
  20. At the end of tonight’s work. I ran out of light and had to finish before wanting to. You’ll have to patient on this one until I can finish it up

    Almost done though

    IMG_1404.JPG IMG_1405.JPG IMG_1408.JPG IMG_1410.JPG IMG_1409.JPG IMG_1414.JPG IMG_1416.JPG


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  21. Starting next week I don’t have school for the next 3 weeks, a lot is about to get done. Stay tuned!!


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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  22. After looking at this for so long I couldn’t keep it looking like that so here’s me starting to re-do almost this whole corner

    IMG_0999.JPG
    Before^^

    The bad I ended up removing
    IMG_1547.JPG IMG_1550.JPG
    IMG_1549.JPG

    The start of something new
    IMG_1544.JPG
    IMG_1545.JPG
    IMG_1546.JPG



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    Boryca likes this.
  23. Some more little bits of work I did today

    IMG_1567.JPG
    Still working on the left side^

    IMG_1571.JPG IMG_1569.JPG
    Finishing up the back end^


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  24. Getting away from my normal body work updates as it’s probably quite boring and there’s a lot of it. As you probably remember from the beginning of this thread there was a major crack running down the side of my transmission as pictured below

    Adjustments.JPG

    I knew I would need a new transmission even though it would be a task quite crazy to me. I searched and came across this one....

    IMG_1304.JPG
    IMG_1305.JPG
    IMG_1306.JPG

    ... at a fair price from a great guy I met in Michigan. After sitting for the past couple weeks I got the time to finally get into the “new” transmission. I knew while they were close to the same that they were also different enough to need some assistance as a instant swap would not be able to happen. The new transmission had a whole braking assembly on the back different clutch levers, one had a PTO and the other didn’t, and lastly one was one solid big case and the other was a 6X6 box with a bell housing attached to the front by 6 bolts.

    After removing the whole braking system off the back i hoisted the new transmission up and lowered it down into position. I then lined it up and put a few bolts in just to confirm they were the same.

    IMG_1577.JPG

    After evaluating I noticed a new issue. The new transmission’s output shaft was much longer than the one I had originally.

    IMG_1581.JPG
    The new^

    IMG_1582.JPG
    The short length I needed^ (original)

    This is quite an issue as I need clearance for a ball joint I think they are called

    IMG_1580.JPG
    This^

    This is very critical as the engine does not sit level with the drive train.

    After doing some research I concluded that I would need to swap the shafts from the two to get the desired length in the new transmission. I hoisted it back out and carted both transmissions to my workshop to start disassembling each for part swaps.

    Things that I would need in my final transmission
    1. The case that’s not cracked (obviously)
    2. The shorter output shaft
    3. I decided I will keep the PTO because why not
    4. The desired clutch lever
    5. And a fully functional shifter lever as the “new” one could rotate 360° and should only shift forwards and backwards

    I started disassembling and making sure to make note as I need to know how they came apart as to how to put it back together

    IMG_1599.JPG
    IMG_1601.JPG
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    One quite interesting thing to note is the color of the oil in each. The crack allowed for dirt and grime to get into the gearbox and crud up the inside compared to a sealed gearbox

    IMG_1590.JPG
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    The old and cracked transmission ^

    IMG_1593.JPG
    IMG_1595.JPG
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    IMG_1609.JPG
    The “new” and sealed transmission case

    Updates to come after I clean the parts


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    Attached Files:

  25. Got it all back together for now. I’ll order a new gasket kit for it and have to do it again

    Got it ready for more fine cleaning after I chiseled all the clumps of dirt off it
    IMG_1640.JPG
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  26. 1930artdeco
    Joined: Oct 25, 2011
    Posts: 38

    1930artdeco
    Member

    Having fun following the story and keep up the good work! Check over the shift lever, at the bottom where it engages the forks it should be round if I remember right. If it isn't it will pop out of gear and not quite function correctly. It is easily welded up and brought back into spec.

    Mike
     
    Christopher Miller likes this.
  27. Thank you!


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  28. This PTO confuses me. I’m pretty sure it powered a hydraulic pump that lifted a dump bed but there’s no parts out there indicating so and very little information on it

    IMG_1688.JPG IMG_1689.JPG IMG_1690.JPG IMG_1691.JPG IMG_1693.JPG IMG_1695.JPG


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  29. These are all pictures indicating a shaft leaving the PTO to a hydraulic pump

    I can’t seem to find a shaft or hydraulic pump for this truck though for sale
    IMG_1658.JPG IMG_1678.JPG IMG_1682.JPG IMG_1683.JPG IMG_1687.JPG

    Last sentence of this post IMG_1662.JPG

    Lmk what you know please. I really like the idea of having a dump bed on this truck


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  30. Cowl vent replacement
    IMG_1740.JPG
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    Here are before photos. Many pin holes and just overall weak metal
    IMG_1572.JPG
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    IMG_1574.JPG
    IMG_1575.JPG



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