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Projects 1934 LaSalle old school convertible coupe build thread

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by F&J, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yep, I know, but I am beat, I don't work on late models, and Ron does not worry about running through NYC with fronts only and no trailer brakes on his friends trailer with wrong brake hookup! We did what Ron wanted, not what WE would do to ours. (me and Bob).

    Bob offered to take us to Autozone...I said Dillon the manager is my sons HS friend who actually BUILDS stuff, and he loves it when I show up, as he told my son: "I am happy to see your Dad come in as I get to figure out what he is trying to build, and I have NO books!."

    Ok, we were headed there, but my gut said pull in to the closer parts place where I "do" have a contact. But as we pulled in, my guy is walking across the street with parts for the Dodge dealer across the street! We go in, look at the fittings...nothing... Bob asked where are the lines, I said in the back room but we cannot enter without "my guy". Then an older-than-me guy who only delivers their parts says "I know you"....I said with a grin "from a good or bad way?". He says "you were at the Ashford show". I said "yes, but I missed the one before because I was "in Natchaug" (the mental health hospital!_ He is "good to go" at that point, laughing and willing to help, but "my guy" shows up and says "Oh, don't deal with THAT guy!" in a wiseazz voice.. :) Then Stacy, a young girl I never saw before gets into the whole nuthouse thing smiling...now THREE people helping!!! We end up with looking at a new Chevy Master cyl to test fit a short line, we find a short 8" line to fit, buy brakefluid. and head back. They restocked the master, we don't need it. The fittings were ALUMINUM!...cannot solder it shut like my VW fix a few days ago but I had an idea for when we got back:
    100_0673.JPG
    I make thin copper seals for damaged flare fittings on obsolete Tees and other odd fittings that cannot be bought, but have leaks. It ALWAYS works, so I made a simple flat block off washer with a single gasket punch, and I use two to make seals for leaking fittings, they end up conical which works slick.. We tried to use common sense, by blocking the REAR line on his master cyl.... yep, the one with the small reservoir...but nooooo that turned out to be the FRONT circuit? So Bob put the copper plug on the front outlet and it now worked. I roadtested it a few feet and said NG, Bob tried a test drive further/ harder and said NG, Ron tried it and said "I like it, I'll do fine" LOL Anyways we had to drag the Cord with two soft tires all brakes dragging, right front locked solid!.. I wanted it at least lined up with Bay #2 while I had help, one steering one pulling with the 8n tractor, which was Bob..
    100_0675.JPG

    ron tried but the front locked wheel made it at the wrong angle to be lined up with the door, so Bob rehooked, dragged the rear end of the car sideways, to line it up as best as possible. Tomorrow I think Jim will show up, and I will udse the crawler to drag the whole front end sideways to line it up pefect, then loosen all brakes to shove it in with a the old 1962 Allis garden tractor snow blade with furniture movers blankets draped over the blade. That little thing gets big jobs done...for over 3 decades so far!
    DSCN1005.JPG

    Hey listen, if people don't care for me not staying on the 35 custom project full time? Use the back button, or contact the staff... Just kidding LOL

    Ok, this way early morning 6:45am , Jim sends an email link about a Buick Manifold I need, at Bobs Buick parts. I missed it as it went to the spam folder?? Good ol Yahoo email service! But I did see another he sent at 8:45 this morning in my regular email box, with an ebay link to a used one. The used one was titled "34-35-36-37-38 Buick exhaust manifold", the old junkyard crayon mark on it said 1938. I took my laptop to the shop to compare pics to my head and intake...it looked right and casting number was pretty close... so I hit it for $105 shipped. All Jim said is: "Will this fit Yours?"

    My reply back as a cut/paste I just did now:

    "
    will it fit? how the F do I know until it gets here.... I just bought it I think? I hit the BIN, but I normally have to go fill out the paypal window. Just did that last week on the map light...but this time I hit confirm and pay button, and it says my order was placed??? WTH? I will wait for the Ebay email confirmation.
    I am in the shop with the laptop right as I compared my intake and my head...it looks right, and I did talk with Roger yesterday as well as Kenny did too later in the day,...he still does not recall that manifold being brought to his building! Oh well 105$ is worth the gamble as I can blame you, then send you a bill...oh, wait, then YOU will send me a bill for not getting my head off yet.
    Time for my meds...or..hey, the Cord will be here at around noon!
    Thanks, Frank "

    Ok, so I go back to look for confirmation but spot the 6:45 email in spam...that link I did not open but it looked like a repro and was $400...BUT his ad said 34-36...not up to 38!. So I talked with Jim in person when he shoed up to finish taking the 34 head off. He then said that Bobs was also USED, and he saw the casting numbers matched on both ads...so I am glad I hit the BIN. Now I have enough to make a running motor to get the 35 as a drive in-drive out car, so I can get into the workbay if I want to. The 34 is next to make it drive-in condition!
    100_0661.JPG
    ^^^ Jim stuck with it and it fought back right to the very end. It would come up 1/4" easy, but kept jambing, then slam it back down with wood block, repeat, repeat.

    here is the old gasket:
    100_0662.JPG

    Jim found a stuck valve and said it was stuck since forever, I said no way as we had the engine running like silk at 400 RPM for up to 45 minutes...He simply did not believe me, and I kinda had to get serious! I just sent him the Photobucket link to the 22 second video to prove it was NOT skipping! but Photobucket changed their rules last week about linking vids out of sickening GREED.. They suck and they will go belly up like they deserve. You have to pay big bucks to post vids on 3rd party,,,and... They now offer AD Free for 2.49 a month and my laptop stalled for 10 to 25 minutes trying to test load the video,,,all because of countless ads.. We ain't taking it anymore asshats! shove it! Screw your site.

    Ok, calm the heck down Frank...overtired, need a break :)

    I will get the Cord in that bay tomorrow, then get back on topic at some point LMAO Man, I love this old Cord, but guess what Ron said? He asked me to guess how many thumbs up he got on the long ride.... I said hundreds, and when I asked Jim later, he said thousands...Ron said TWO! both were guys in pickup trucks if that means anything.


    Ray wants "Vanishing America" here you go Ray...Kenny insisted we get to his place in time to get to meet roger at a set time at the estate to get those motors a few days ago...well Kenny says to me "hop in, I want to show you the spare motor for the Whippet you now own". Well WTH...I know it must be in the rust pile not too far from where we were, why are we driving???
    100_0601.JPG
    Kenny driving a 24 Dodge open flatbed truck that once was made into a firetuck by a dirt poor town from a old used truck! He got it in the early 70s....He just wanted tio ride around the field! Joe G got something in his eye I guess...


    They both insisted that I sit in the passenger seat but I insisted I wanted to ride on the runningboard for some reason...then I realized that was because I could take these two pics...at least "part"of Kenny" LOL.
    See my skinny elbow and hand in the mirror that Kenny was so proudly showing the vibration-free bracket he made for the mirror?
    100_0600.JPG

    I took pics of some of the junk but here is the last pic tonight...the Old tobacco barn...It was added onto over time back then, and it actually is like a curve a little.. :) 160 or 180 feet long...then part of the later steel Morton building.. Have a nice night. ...it's pretty nice out tonight here, too. :)
    100_0604.JPG
     

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  2. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 25,675

    The37Kid
    Member

    Frank, Have you ever wanted to buy a project you really want, but don't have the money in hand? I just spent the afternoon going through my basement and just may have things covered if all goes well. It's a Pre HAMB friendly Pre Titanic sinking vehicle. Details when it is mine. Oh, I get to keep all the projects, leftovers & junk will cover it. Bob
     
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  3. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes Bob, that would be the car below:
    DSCN0089.JPG

    I could certainly not afford it right from the first moment I saw it deep in the big barn, and much later, I really underestimated on what it actually would sell for at Dragone's auction in Westport, Ct about 2 months later. Boy that car rocked my world while I got it to run up in the top barn, then drove it to my workbay. I am not sure if I knew there was the second one hiding at a different barn location then or not, but after 3 years of trying to save those rough LaS cars at that other location, I did end up with a different 34 LaS convertible! My son and I were the only ones who were ever allowed to get into both barns, and her basement and HOUSE...I am sure the local flippers still can't understand that, including Roger. LOL. But, I never went there as a flipper, I went there to do what I do best...trying to save old cars, locate them, find their scattered pieces, then get them to other new owners.

    Speaking of finding them; one of the first couple of cars I worked on for the estate were a 47Ply conv in rough shape and a halfway decent 48 ply coupe. The Widow found some records of these two being stored at a private home a few towns away from me for at least 5 years. She gave me the phone number and left it in my hands. My son was subcontracted right from day one, to do all the towing on a separate billing situation. We get there and that guy said her husband bought them and said he'd be back sometime that year,(which dragged on to be 4 years!) and he had no idea the buyer had passed away. We hauled the conv first which was outdoors, then came back for the coupe which was he said was in his 2 bay. We get in there and I spot the 62 black Valiant! Quick talk says it is for sale. Hmmmn, Bob Jr just asked me two weeks prior to ; "find me a nice 60-62 2 door Valiant", I said "yea right, in the salt belt?" the rest is history. LMAO. I did talk with the seller enough to know who he got it from...it was "red truck Dan" a flipper/collector I do work for! He got it from Virginia or some other better climate State to flip. Bob Jr's father, the Late Bob Sr was the widows husbands BEST lifetime inseparable friend! Bob Jr had me "be the broker" to sell a Model A from his fathers estate, and the buyer ended up being Cord Ron! who then ended up bringing me HIS cars from NJ to tinker on....I swear we are all related, or inbred...o_O... Hey, whatever...it works for us.
     
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  4. Doors are always open.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  5. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have been struggling since late yesterday on how I could make the update post make any sense at all in under 10,000 words. George, I pondered a really long time on my porch this morning, on how I must avoid going deep like was the norm on my AACA LaS thread. Going deep, is my attempts to teach the world how to find the true secrets of LIFE. I am there, I got there in less than 6 moths after telling myself on my 65 birthday, that I simply want to and must make the final step.

    your simple 4 words hit me hard when I just now looked at them a couple hours from when I read them this morning.

    A huge part of the "secret" is stsaying completely open to others, but more importantly, keeping your mind and brain open to every thing we see, hear, and sense. We must get deep into our own being. We need to know what we need, what we want, what we must do, and what not to plan for. Once you "get there" you will never need an alarm clock! When I woke up at 4AM the morning after the Cord came in, I instantly knew it was going to be a very hectic and long day. I was puzzled by that. When the car came in, my mind could "shut down" which should have let me physically shut down, as then all the rushing and preps to make a bay open, should have made for a super easy, "all rest" day or even a week, which I truly need!

    When I crashed in bed that night of the Cord arrival, I knew there was to be no rain for two days, so I had two days to free up the stuck brakes to be able to push that monster in. I was so spent after working like crazy from early May, trying to sort, store, catalog, dissameble TWO parts cars, all to get set for snow season. Most everyone here said I was crazy for working so hard in spring to do this, as winter is so far off. I knew better; this is the biggest pile I have ever dealt with in 50 years in the hobby!

    I was so spent when I did decide to try to do 3 things yesterday morning on my porch thinking. I wanted to get some sort of preliminary test fitting of the LaS and Buick transmissions, to have an open drive on that all-new Buick rebuilt motor for the 35 Custom, then I wanted to next finish uncovering the hand painted door advertisement and company name on the two Huckster doors. I want to post that here, as well as have my son send a cell pic of the words to Charlies Son Tom on his phone...then have Tom show it to Charlie...he will shit! I as well as all my old timer friends never imagined that there was a business existing for what that company did!! You will shit too, unless you are braindead, or clueless to the importance of "history". History...that is what Hamb has as a battle cry, but so often ignored by so many posts on the "new Hamb".

    Then, I would try to free up the Cord brakes if I had any strength left in body and mind, and if not, I'd still have one more day before the rain comes. The Cord has so much bare metal showing due to overly thick laquer repaints coming off in huge sheets!

    Well, that 4am wakeup warned me about "making plans" :) Jim showed up with a beater chevy pickup, as I was already resting on my porch with a coffee, trying NOT to fall asleep!
    100_0676.JPG

    I told him I was simply "spent beyond words" trying to free up that right front on the Cord, he took over and after an hour of difficult work, we did get the drum off to gut the shoes out, then got the Cord shoved in.
    100_0677.JPG

    ^^^ that pic taken LATE in the day! Here I am trying to get a 34 LaS motor into the work area, fighting the fact that my 34 Conv is in the way! I had the dozer buckt laying right on top of that motor out back for a week now, as I thought I could sneak it into the middle bat before the Cord came. I am better off that never happened, as this motor is where Jim can help get it's head off. This may be the better of the last two 34 LaS engines for Joe G's sedan. The only 34 motor outside now, is my matching numbers one that came in my convertible when new. That one will be saved for the "next owner" after I pass away. I will run the good 34 LaS motor forever. not the original!

    Why did I "have" to put that motor in, so late in the day? Because Kenny was bringing over a LOAD of stuff that he could not allow to be thrown away from cleaning his place out for his Sons new maching shop for motors! Kenny sent 28,000 pounds to the recycle place!!! I am glad I never saw what went, so is Jim, as he never saw either! I could have just grabbed the dozer, but then I would maybe get sidetracked before snow and never get this motor inside!
    100_0684.JPG 100_0685.JPG 100_0686.JPG 100_0687.JPG 100_0687.JPG 100_0688.JPG 100_0689.JPG

    ^^^ AND, a windshield frame with glass and an old Massachusetts DMV sticker showing that Jim will really love! Jims current swap meet found frame is what he says is an old crappy fitting repro from South America, Kenny says it is old J.C. Whitney??

    Ok, that first pic of the yellow arrow pointing to a new take-off bed for my sons rotted bed on his soon-to-be-flipped K3500 Chevy...it is on MY trailer. I was kinda wishing it was not there when I'd been to Kennys the last few times. I could have brought home my new Whippet cut-down to save a trip. But, then it would be sitting here in the rain, until the Chevy rod leaves that small area in my top barn! See?, things work out best if you don't mess with letting the "leaf in the brook" go where it should go. Just like how we should let ourselves go...in a state of "un-control". That is a part of the "big Secret", I will tell ya!

    Yes, I did get the transmission problem figured out before Kenny showed up! But no shit, as Kenny came in my shop he blurted out the SAME exact solution without looking at it!!

    Ok, I just got a Robot phone call from my Doctors office to remind me of my appointment to get my arm "spot" looked at. I will go, as I need to, so I can get in that "3 year window" to keep my Doctor! But the spot is "nothing". I asked Charlie to look at it the mornig we got the Huckster.,. Hell, he has 86 years of life experience, not AGE!...he will know! He looked at it for a split second, then as he swished his head away to add visual importance to it actually being >>"you just poked yourself" statement! He was right, as I poked myself last week rushing to get stuffed moved to get the Nash moved! As soon as I felt the poke, the new spot appeared instantly! No kidding. The old spot is fading the new one is still scary looking! But I now KNOW what it really is!

    sorry for the 2000 words! It is REST day today! I woke up LATE at I think 6:30! That is the "sign"...no company yet, All I need to, or I should have said, > "want or would like" to do, is mail out Walt's mainshaft to Vermont, and go grocery shopping...then just maybe...I'd "like" to work on those door letters on the A. :)
     

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  6. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,523

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Frank, curious to know your solution for mating the transmission and engine..... Inquiring minds want to know! :D

    Ray
     
  7. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok, the 3 transmissions I had lined up to compare: 34 Buick 40 series, 34-36 LaS, and the one we all belive is around a 39-49 Olds inline trans.....they are all different "family". No way to swap the input from the Buick into either of those two open drive transmissions. Then I took the T-Tube collar off of the Buick...nope, no easy way to convert to open drive.

    Next and I thought was the final plan? I was going to call Mark Shepard who runs a home machine/rod shop due South of here...it is called Shep's Machine & Speed. He's been here twice, buying 50 Olds stick stuff and some 37 LaS gears.. He is another "older fellow". I hate the whole age thing, I was hinting to his experiences!

    He has mentioned cutting and shortenting LaS output (mainshafts), so I would get him to cut and respline the 34-36 input and it would be an easy bolt in, to the 34 Buick bell...

    But at some clear moment of thinking yesterday, even though I was beyond overtired,... It hit me: "make a simple flat plate to space it away!" Turns out by measuring, roughly 1/2" thick. Ok, not really "simple"

    You cannot just use a spacer plate on the early versions of 34-ish Buick and LaS transmissions. They do NOT have a TOB collar tube! (aka Candle stick). The TOB does not ride on anything! just the fork holds it and swings in an arc like aircooled VW did until a change to a guide tube in 1971.

    Ok, confused yet? Well the biggest issue is the fact that you need to stop oil flow from heading towards the clutch disc.

    Look at the reverse spirals on these transmissions below:
    100_0681.JPG 100_0682.JPG 100_0683.JPG

    Ok, there are arrows to the input gear...I was showing that the teeth do not match, that's all. The spirals are what draws the gear oil back into the case through a drain hole cavity. These spirals will only do that if there is very close tolerances to another "part". On a trans like 50-up olds or 37-up Las/Cad, the inner bore of the candlestick is very close fitting near the spirals.

    but 36-38 Buick topshift has no spiral, it has a cork o-ring sitting in a groove in the input shaft!

    On Las 37-ONLY, the candlestick is one year only! It has a smaller OD on the spiral, so the inner bore of a 37 candlestick is smaller. So, if you put a 38-up stick on a 37 LaSalle input, it will leak out the front, onto the clutch! If you try to use a 37 stick on 38-up, it won't slide on! Don from NJ who is 5-quart on hamb, PMed me on that little tidbit some years ago. He knows his old parts beyond belief.

    I got off track, Ray. The early transmissions in these pics have the mating bore for the spiral casted into the bell! Look at the 34 Buick bell above, it is the same setup and bore on a 34-36 LaS bell type. If I use a 1/2" plate, now the spiral will not pull oil back, as they won't align!. My mind is distracted right now, so I shut that issue off completely in my head...as I KNOW I will find a way to fix that! When the Buick motor is nearly assembled, I will THEN think it out. That makes perfect sense to me, as I am in a "different world" and I know how "I" need to think about things, and more importantly WHEN. >>> Not now!

    And, one more thing on the new plate: It needs to be step bore to hold the front case bearing, and it needs a second shallow step to clear the Main bearing OD snapring. I can cut all that and bores, on my gap-bed lathe. It is a medium swing lathe, but the removable gap-bed section allow me to swing a bigger item like the plate...well, I think it will clear :) To early to think about that now
     
  8. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,523

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Frank, Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have passing familiarity, but not in depth knowledge, of the Buick/GM stuff from the late '30s and up. I am aware of the oil retention issues where the trans and bell housing meet.

    From your (vast) experience, would I be able to use '41 Pontiac 5 bolt cover, side shift internals to convert my '38 Buick top shift to open drive output? The '38 is a 'small series' 40 trans.

    Further, would any of those items be useful to you to get an open drive behind your '34 Buick engine?

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
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  9. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I never run across Pontiac transmissions to give an opinion, except I did see a 36-38 Roadmaster trans converted to open drive with the two? year only 6 bolt Pontiac selector tail and guts. Those were 57-58 perhaps.

    The small series 37 or 38 that came to the local recycle, I RAN there when my son called me to tell me it just came in. They were cutting it up as they are not legal to dismantle cars...it was just a doodlebug. Anyways, I recall that trans had the partial bell cast as part of the trans case?

    Get some pics if the engine's bell trans face pattern, if it's not already in the car, or a pic of the donor Pontiac trans. I have no books on Pontiac or Buick, Just Olds. I run by taking things apart to try,,, but only if they look the "same family" as in overall case specs.

    on your 34? Buick engine, there are 4 sizes? I have no clue if bell patterns are shared by all, but seems unlikely on the big ones.

    Thanks, But I prefer staying with the LaSalle box, it is way stronger by comparing to the 34 40 series internals. I can do up the plate. I will go that route instead of shaft machining as it is cost cutting, and it takes two trips to Shep's to get the shaft cut! I use everything sparingly, including time and money!
     
  10. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Let me take pics of my 34 model 40 bell, (reputed to be that, by Roger)and get a casting number for you to compare to your bell.

    Then let me try to verify if the 34 LaS trans bolts up to my buick bell, then look at TOB fitment.

    Then, I would use that same number bell and use a 34 LaS trans. The LaS uses a two piece driveshaft with a slip yoke which I know I do not have as a spare. I do have some later 37-up LaS slip shafts, too long to ship though, and I'd need to see if their flanges will even fit the 34 trans. Maybe I could lop off the trans end, then you make a complete shaft to mate to your rear end?

    You would then take the LaS input to be cut/resplined as it is just less technical. I must have spare 34/35 LaS transmissions here, I am sure of that. That transmission should be able to go out as UPS, as my 37 Roadmaster went UPS... as long as the top cover is removed and set alongside the trans. I'd need to find out if UPS has lowered their max weight since then.

    but we only have a local UPS "Store". Those are owner operated, and my local one charges way higher than the UPS online prices! WAY higher. You would need to find someone out near you with a commercial UPS account, then they issue a "pick-up order" billed to them, then UPS will pick it up here if I box it. Whew! lots of words... lol
     
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  12. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have been working on recovering the original painted door lettering on the Model A Huckster...on and off today. I had to walk away for a mail run, etc, and again when I had to give it a rest rather than ruin some letters...

    Up to today, I had figured out all of the many words and town, state, but the persons name is up higher on both doors between the twin belt lines...it is surface rusted right at the middle letters of his name,,,on both doors!


    Ok, I decided to try wet sandapaper that one visitor said would work best, quite a few days ago. It worked. P/S I have both doors laying across the front tires of my 34 LaS. The doors laying flat, you can see distinct raised areas of each letter on each word, if you move your head to get the right reflection of the light. Those letters were hastily brushed over with black enamel at one point. I had a large notebook there with a pen. Any visitor was asked to keep figuring out each letter of the persons name...for quite a few days now :)

    Kevin and Johhny got soooo close as they wrote random letters on the paper. The sandpaper finally got it, I am positive!

    I need a good internet search guru to get further on Bing or google than I did with the last name. We had a hard time as just the middle letter or two (we did not know if it was one)... The name is NOT common if using the known letters of the last name.

    The company name is:

    L. M. Preese

    The town is Northampton, Mass (note that spelling of northampton, no double H in middle.

    On bing I only found two deceased women in Northampton,
    Hilda born 128 years ago
    Edith born 131 years ago, must be sisters, I'd bet.

    I don't know why I cannot find a male person, or a person with L. M. initials?

    Anybody that can give it a try, please do. Thanks.

    Oh, I did not want to stand over the door bent over...so I went to find MY old stools up in the barn was the tall wooden one I spotted when we were fiddling with the Ford Tractor, and the shorter metal one in my tool room. Neither ever used since I left my nice big new shop 15 years ago! Thanks, Biggeorge, for that pic of your stools! ...Shit, ...now my friends will sit around all damn day LMAO.
    100_0690.JPG

    you can see the Cord with hood open, and look closer to see the windshield is slightly open on the Huckster in bay number 3...and that dang orange bike :)
     
  13. Frank, I have a UPS acct and could do the shipping slips online and email it to you, if it helps.
     
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  14. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 25,675

    The37Kid
    Member

    Frank, have you wiped the Huckster door lettering with fast dry enamel reducer yet? Always amazing how that exposes lettering and pin striping. Bob
     
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  15. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well, I will go a little deeper today to see if there is any chance the LaSalle input shaft really needs deeper splines cut;... if my "1/2" guesstimate is correct, the existing LaS splines might just work on the Buick bell depth. If so, then the project of shortening the LaS shaft gets pretty simple. Kenny had a tool post grinder for my lathe, but it may have gotten lost or taken by the guy who got the other lathe mine was sitting next to. If I can get a grinder set up on mine, I should be able to do the mods. Then do one more LaS input shaft if Ray wants to go this route.
    Bob, I know a good spot that I actually dare to try that: When we got to Charlie's to get the truck, all the doors on that building were finally open. I then spotted on the right rear side of the cab extension, the painted over, GVW numbers. That is the only place I'd feel OK about trying the reducer. I have tons of PPG stuff, from Kenny, who picked it up at an auto parts store that Roger bought out! It would have cost Roger serious $ to dispose of the entire paint stock that was there, that is how it all came here for free.

    Yes, there must be pale yellow pinstriping on this truck when built. It is such a "high end" body builder for sure. The truck was a sweet blue/green color with pale yellow, well done fancy lettering.

    One more cool thing I spotted on this very unusual body; it has twin inside rear view mirrors. One on the right is a clock mirror, both mirrors nearly touching each-other, both aimed differently and stuck in place on their pivot balls which have slight rust.
    100_0635.JPG
    I had thought it was a owner-added extra mirror, but no, it is a single mounting bracket with two ball ends! I need to sit in the truck to see where they are aimed. One is pointed to look through the unusual twin glass rear cab windows, the other I need to see where it is aimed to! No clue why a second one was needed,,, I never ever saw a twin mirror before in my half century of looking at prewars!
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  16. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 25,675

    The37Kid
    Member

    Frank, Have your camera ready when you do the enamel reducer wipe, it brings things out but it fades back to nothing in a minute or so. Paint prep wax remover can be used too. Bob
     
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  17. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    He. He...I ALWAYS have my new thin Kodak in my front pocket!...matter of fact, when the State Police grabbed me, all I had in my pockets were the camera and a comb....no keys, no wallet no money... My shop was left open, all bay doors were up, all lights on, house door open, just a screen door...for 2.5 days like that! Thanks, AACA Moderator, you shoulda called me first if you "knew" I was contemplating suicide! ..... When they had me on the EMS gurney going into the first Hospital, we cruised right past the busy admissions desk where you need your ID and Medical cards before they ever will check you out.... I was grinning as we scurried right past there.... "i don't need no stinking Money, ID, or Cards" LMAO. Geez, I still never got the new Medicare cards yet...they simply forgot to send them...the medical system is broken! I am going to the doctor on Monday and still don't need anything...fuck "the rules". The "New" Homey don't play dat game nomore :) Rock on!
     
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  18. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok, I went pretty deep this morning on the trans swap tech for my 35 Custom, and Ray might end up with the same stuff!

    I need a trans guy here to see if I missed something, as I normally do! Not sure if anyone here on Hamb can follow along, unless they do trans swapping of bits and pieces...and,... I know what I am trying to say, but don't always make it understandable...because YOU don't have the same pieces in front of you!

    Ok. Not sure what I did first, but will start somewhere. Will the 34 LaS trans bolt up to the 4 threaded holes in the Buick bell? Yes, but we have a small issue in that I will need to cut a shallow step in the bell center bore to clear the typical GM OD snap-ring on the front main bearing. Look in first pic for the gap I have, because that snap ring is keeping the trans from snugging up.
    100_0700.JPG

    ^^^ the Buick front main bearing does have a empty groove on it, AND that bearing OD matches the LaS OD, so that is sweet, as the "bearing"step bore in both bells are identical! Look at the very odd way the buick main bearing is set up, so it cannot go "too deep" into it's bored hole in the case:
    100_0697.JPG

    ^^^^ Buick uses an internal snap ring to give that bearing a "stop", Then to keep that bearing from walking forward, the recessed step in the bell does that. This setup is why Buick does not use that empty groove on the OD of the main bearing.

    100_0696.JPG

    ^^^ here you can see that the Buick bell has a single step for the OD of the bearing, but does not have the shallow 2nd step to clear the OD snap ring on the LaS bearing retention system. Ok, that shallow snap ring recess needs to be very consistent in depth, but the OD diameter can be inconsistent as long as it can clear that ring. So, I am saying it should be possible to hand make that ring recess, all you need to something to control the depth of the die grinder bit! No $$$ Bridgeport work needed.

    100_0694.JPG

    ^^ I am rushing here, so my printing ain't all pretty :) We NEED to know if we need to recut the LaS splines deeper. He, he, unless I screwed up, we DO NOT! We will have 1/4" EXTRA! BUT>> I do not own a 34 Buick clutch disc to see if the hub extends more to the rear that the LaS disc.

    Meaning: I looked for wear marks on the LaS and Buick splines to see how far back each disc runs, ...so my calculations will only be correct IF the buick disc does NOT extend further back than the LaS disc. I am betting we are OK, though.

    100_0693.JPG

    ^^^ LaS disc: 10" stock. The LaS flywheel and pressure plate CAN accept a 10.5" heavier duty disc, but the Buick parts cannot use anything larger than the stock Buick 10". The Buick spline diameter is BIGGER, even though that trans looks less strong as the LaS trans.

    100_0695.JPG

    ^^^ LaS 10"disc in the Buick wheel. This is what we will need to use.

    100_0698.JPG

    ^^ Ok, we know the buick input shaft is bigger OD, so will the TOBs be same ID bore hole, and OD of the carbon wearing face? Yes, they are!

    So, wrapping up so far; I need to shorten my LaS input shaft and machine the snout smoothly to take a typical early Olds or Chevy Oilite bushing. I will skip looking for the stock Buick ball bearing as I prefer Oilite. I will need to make a simple adapter ring on the lathe to reduce the bored OD in the Buick crank, Ray can reuse his 34 Buick ball bearing in his crank now.

    I just found out last week when Kenny mentioned the "machine shop" in the oldest barn next to his home. I have NEVER been in there! I never knew his son did do engine machining here! I though those machines were just surplus stuff he was flipping, years ago when I asked if there were cars in there. Kenny said "machining equipment", that's all he said then.

    So, his Son is wicked busy, running his real engine machine shop by only himself, as well as every spare moment redoing the terrain and the building mods at Kennys place, so I cannot ask him to machine my shaft, but he just might let me and Kenny do it, if he has the right machine (grinder)? IDK



    Ok, Driveshaft flange requirements for the 34 trans... Well, here we go again...the auto history books say the 35 is virtually unchanged from the 34 LaS...sorry again, idiots...the trans rear flange AND driveshaft changed for 35! Almost no parts interchange on the 34 to 35 in a general statement: Here are 2 of 5 transmissions I know I have, I think this is all I have, not positive. I only have one 35. I need a 35 for my Custom as I simply have a 35 shaft, and do not have any spare 34 shafts! I do have ONE 34 shaft for my 34. and the 35 one from the 35 sedan chassis for the Custom.
    100_0706.JPG
    ^^^1935 LaS: see the "mechanics" type U-joint flange? That is a trade name for that type, same as on the rear pinion of Early Olds V8s.


    100_0705.JPG

    ^^^ 1934 LaS, SEE the flange type? See some driveshafts I have below. The Ones with yellow junkyard marking are ones I got from a hamber who's real name is Gerry and from New Jersey. He included this stuff when we met in central Ct for me to buy two old time modded 37 topshift roadmasters with Olds guts. I think I bought one LaS 37? shaft that day and the rest were free. One he said was the rare 50 Olds was not! It is selector!

    100_0702.JPG

    100_0703.JPG
    100_0704.JPG

    ^^^ sorry I clipped off the REAR 34 type flange so Ray can see! I am rushing, and a bit off my game with all that is been happening lately.

    This post took way WAY too long, but I needed to post while words were still in my head LOL
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  19. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 14,933

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    is it possible to make a "tin" 10 gauge spacer to go between the tranny and bell to clear the clip? since you need to shorten the input shaft any way you can spare the distance.
     
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  20. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cannot do that because then the bell step that holds the main bearing in correct spot is now allowing the bearing to move forward by same amount of that shim plate thickness. Cutting the snap ring step will go Ok, I will make something up to act like a router, then use a template. Cast iron cuts really nice!

    But I am glad you brought that up as I need to see if the LaS trans shift rail that might stick out into a hole in the bell , is lined up with a hole in the Buick bell. It may not need it, but the 36-38 Roadmasters do need a hole in the bell.

    I did talk with Kenny just now, he said his son moved the surplus machines to his own home shop. He said make a sketch and we will go see him..."he can do it"...meaning cut the shaft snouts on two 34 LaS inputs if Ray needs one too.

    Kenny is still scrapping today...geez a lot of vintage iron going away. :(
     
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  21. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Back to the front fender modifications on the 35 Custom. Way back in this thread I sketched out how I wanted to change the rear undersides of the front fenders to look better where the running boards used to be. I knew I was influenced by the 36-37 Cord details there.

    Ok, here are pics of a 1934 LaS rear end of the fender , and the Cord fender tail. Who copied whom? And more interesting, did Frank Kurtis copy the Cord when he built the 34 LaS boat tailed speedster? Kurtis took his running boards off, to expose or highlight that sexy back end of the 34-only LaSalle fender!
    100_0725.JPG 100_0710.JPG

    Most sources say that Kurtis built that car in 1935 from a wrecked 34 LaS coupe, but I did spot one sentence somewhere, that there was a question on the year being actually built in 1936.

    When the New Cord was being introduced, the first 50 Cords were hand built(welded together panels), and these 50 never had engines. They were meant to be promotional tour cars, sent all across the country to shows, All 50 were a different color and I think were metallic paints or maybe even some with pearl added? Pearl was not new then, earlier cars used ground up fish scales added to the paints.

    Anyways, these 50 did get back to the Cord factory for engines to be resold. These 50 can be told apart by the presence of having "cowl fillers", these were to fill the engine oil, and perhaps water? These are seen as you lift the hood. The only Cord I ever considered buying(meaning in my price range) was over 40 years ago in West Hartford, Ct. The older seller said it was once a parts car, but he bought a lot of the missing parts and either gave up? or was a flipper which I doubt. His was one of those 50, and when I asked if they were more valuable, he said no. He also talked me out of buying it for $2500 saying I would be getting way over my head as such a young inexperienced guy!

    Anyways, Harley Earl went with the popularity of airplane mystique when designing the all new LaSalle in 34, the bi-plane bumper bars and the chrome bullets were supposed to look like airplane wings and engine cowlings. Then the radical front fenders were to mimic the streamlined airplanes of the most modern planes then, that had "wheel pants". The teardrop aerodynamic covers over the "fixed" landing gear tires/wheels.

    So, If Kurtis saw one of these 50 Cords in So Cal, where they must have been, and would have caused a big stir, then he copied the look? or did he spot that look when he had the boards off when fixing the wrecked 34? I doubt we will ever know.

    More pics of the Cord here: Headlight actuators on both sides of dash...
    100_0671.JPG 100_0719.JPG 100_0672.JPG 100_0717.JPG

    ^^^ yes a factory Tach! and a SW blue-line :) ...and a non-stock oil gauge.

    100_0718.JPG

    ^^^ one huge problem area on Cords is the original electric mini shifter mounted on the right side of the column. It looked like an aftermarket shaped signal light housing, but had a miniature shifter sticking straight up towards you, with the lever moving through visable gate pattern...like an H, but Cord was 4 speed with reverse. That controlled a cluster-f of solenoids on the transaxle which has the transmission parts way up front ahead of the hood/right under the front of hood. Watch Jay Lenos roadtest of his Cord and he explains the odd way you need to shift, and how you never park the car for long periods in gear!

    One reason I finally took this job. Ron said "this car has no solenoids!, and has a homemade column shifter!".
    I thought the shifter came from a reverser handle from a fork lift type vehicle, but I really now think it is a hand lever for a very early tractor trailer rear braking system. Those early air brake trailers needed to be hand-braked.
    100_0718.JPG

    more pics of motor stuff:
    100_0714.JPG

    Ron took the heads off some years ago. The car had sat idle in Florida since I now believe, 1986. The right head was rotted right through, as they are quite thin. Repros were made but he says they were "problematic" so he found used ones.
    100_0722.JPG 100_0723.JPG 100_0721.JPG

    ok, Below you see interesting systems on this backwards facing Lycoming V8...the generator is at the "front" of the motor which means it faces the firewall. Look at the huge diameter drive pulley, it allows the generator to produce FULL voltage at idle!...just like my 1970 VW type 3 does with it's big drive pulley running a 12v generator. My car is EFI which needs full voltage at idle to run the EFI electronics, but VW came out with that drive in 1962 on European based carbed versions! Copied Cord? IDK
    100_0712.JPG

    and the water pump driven by a odd pulley system, not at the crank, but above, possibly off the cam?
    100_0713.JPG

    wow these long posts with pics take a lot out of me, and I am so busy lately..
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  22. Crazy stuff there Frank.....those heads are awful thin! And the shifter is nuts
     
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  23. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A final update on the 35 Custom for what may be a few months. The Cord needs a lot of work to the front drive system and may stay the winter, as Ron wants it all fixed so he can finally drive the wheels off of a prewar.

    Things are always busy here with visitors lately, here is a day or two ago... LaS Jim stopped by with no notice with another sketchy old vehicle he owns...also confessed he found this thread, and later told Tim and I that he still has a Model A tudor from his youth..... I already knew the young guy who took me to the last farm swap/show in his 47 Dodge truck was coming looking for help on fixing his handling issue on what the kids call "a second gen, one-wire, 12 valve" whatever that means (JK, I do know)

    and Tim was coming to just look at the Huckster.

    100_0729.JPG

    ^^^ that is a 36 LaS. there is the Dodge, and there is them too guys.. :)

    Jim has an airhose with a nozzle on it. He told Dave G that he learned how to cup his clenched han d over it to play Swanny River with farting noises... Dave looks bored.

    Ok, Kevin called a while ago, wanted me to help with a brake issue, but two sentences ago, he calls to say he ran out of gas on a side road near me. I say where are you, how far from rt 32? He says 1/2 mile in..."look for the large white elephant"... WTF, I said if your AA is parked on the road, why the heck do I need to look for that??
    100_0734.JPG

    ^^^^I don't care if I am parked wrong.. I did not bring my wallet/ID or glasses for driving, never locked the house. I was rushing as I told Kevi that someone will stop to help before I get there... Yep, I was right, a guy waited for me in case he had to bring Kevin for gas, if I broke down.. Not gonna happen, my car is mint!

    here is the Elephant, I asked the nice young Mom carrying her infant into the house, If I could get a pic....she said yes..
    100_0735.JPG
    ^^^sorry for bad pic...there is the guy waiting to see if we are good to go..

    100_0736.JPG

    Another jiggly pic....I was trying to see how many badly bent wheels it has!!! TWO one LR and one RF. We are working on the brakes right now so I must go... bye
     
  24. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I forgot to say that Kevin said to "look for the white elephant on an ironing board". I am starting to think I live in an area of weird people, maybe that is why I fit right in...and Kevin and Jim too...and everyone else I know.

    Kevin got tired at 6pm, he spent more GD time BS'ing with my neighbors Gene and Bertie that actually doing anything...we still need to fix the last brake on only one rear wheel today and tighten a loose perch pin. He did say the brakes are tons better as he left. He took my empty gas can, I bet he will just keep it rather than bring me my gas back. Gotta watch these guys like a hawk... oh, Jim, I am sorry I accused you of stealing my Allis Chalmers snow plow blade... some other dick must have hid it under some old Model A tires in the top barn,..until they found time to come back to grab it.

    .
     
  25. Can you do a thread about the Cord repairs? I'd be interested to see one of these things in bits.
     
  26. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    James, the only way I could do that, is to go to a different website....because the Cord is totally off topic on hamb. I know that, and I know it does not belong here at all, even on the main board.

    I would like to say that the Cord project could get more interesting than just finally uncovering how in the heck some person made conventional shift linkage to replace all the electric solenoid systems, and some how got those rods way the heck up to the very front of the transaxle...(supposed to be a 4-speeds forward). Meaning that when I emailed Ron about some front drive spline wear and loose axles, he said "Maybe it is time for a 'Toronado' conversion to the front end (CV joints/hubs)".

    All I have to go on right now before taking the front end apart, is a simple cutaway in an old Motors Manual. It has a narrow-ish double row front axle bearing somewhat like a modern front-wheel-drive car. The drivers side is flopping around a lot, and it might be just the bearing, but if it spun, it might have destroyed the knuckle/spindle housing.

    I cannot go anywhere else right now until I get the heads on to test the motor out. Bob Jr was here late yesterday and agreed 100% NOT to go deeper in the motor. It makes no sense in "customers $" to do the valve job, drop the pan to check some rods, because even then, it may have something else wrong in other areas. So, either pull the motor to send to Kenny's Sons shop for total rebuild, or put the heads on to see "what we got" :)

    I should be on it soon, Bob checked the cylinder ridge and said it seems Ok, and he said "maybe a day to get it to run" (cleaning stuff, checking valve seats/valve surfaces for obvious issues, etc.)

    After it fires, and then if it runs good, then fill the block with water, run it to temp, but not hooked to the radiator, then keep dumping that water over and over until the flakes are out of the block. Ron never bought the Cord Club-suggested water screens that go in the rad hoses for some reason. Someone that visited here mentioned running nylon stocking material on the radiator hose fittings, AFTER the block gets flushed really well. (oh great, now I get to stand in line at the store with a package of women's fishnet pantyhose :oops:) Hey, maybe some "advanced" hot chick will see that and ask me out! :eek:

    but I will mention the Cord here if it runs, and am able to get the car to yard drive!
     
  27. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    I would like you to confirm with the mods that the Cord refurb is not kosher. Because if you can get their okay, I'd like to read it. Between the no-solenoid mod and possible CV joint mod you may be okay, and it won't hurt to ask.
     
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  28. TinWolf
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 177

    TinWolf
    Member
    from Sweden

    I might be totally out of sync in this thread , but I love customs so I stole an earlier photoshop and shaved it abit ...
    Wolf
     

    Attached Files:

  29. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,174

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    35LaSalle.JPG

    ^^^ Wow, Wolf...that is the cats azz.. It is really so slick & sleek with just the hood ports gone and the hood ornament gone! I definitely will do at least those two things for sure. I was not going to run the stock splash shields on the sides of the engine anyways, so those being gone should let the radiator hot air out under the car just fine without hood vent portholes! Geez, every day it seems that I need to give up on my roughest car project which is the custom, but seems like I keep getting "signs" that I should not. I finally got the much needed 34 Buick exhaust manifold delivered two days ago, and it is correct and is in mint condition! Then this new photoshop really hits home... I bet James D loves it too! Now I need to find some time or more helpers ;) ...Heck I'd even take a female helper o_O ..read on...at the end of this post..


    Well, I just might not have a spare moment to get permission, or have time to do another build type thread.. Look what went on just yesterday:
    100_0739.JPG

    ^^^ Kevin finally came back a day late, to finish working on the rear brake, but Kenny shows up with yet another one of his trucks to drop off a mint looking early 29 Chevy motor for the Montgomery Wards 29 Chevy tractor that Tim is buying from me. Kenny won't take any payment until we run it, but he already knows it is perfect running? I called Tim and told him we might as well just install it first, and he said that is perfect as it will then be running/driving before he brings it home...more delays but for a good cause. Kenny also dropped off a good "31" chevy radiator he took out of a 31 Chevy truck, but I knew it was 29-30 just by the fact that those are straight sided cores, not slightly wider at the bottom like 31. The Harrison date code says 30, so it will fit perfect!
    100_0743.JPG

    ^^ Kenny got it without a valve cover so this one is a beat up one he found there. But he claims he has a nice one somewhere at his place.

    Geez, then Kevin wants to go to Gene and Berties place to look at their two houses, barns, sheds, fountain, stone outdoor fireplace and gardens... Man, we got work to do, Kevin!
    100_0740.JPG

    ^^ they were not home but we took a tour anyways.


    Then I missed a call from someone named AMY, says to give her a call when I get around to it. Oh man...Kevin sure likes younger women and mentioned her before... um, er ...
    Geebus...just a few hours after I posted the "advanced hot chick asking me out"?? Yep, she did...and Kevin said before that she is slightly MORE than "advanced"..:oops:


    BUT, as you know, I don't do this whole age thing, so it's not her fault our ages "don't seem right" to the real world....AND she claims she already met me once and spent time looking at my old cars...she loves old cars!..but I forgot to ask her if she can help me finish one :(


    I'm working on the Cord today, she's probably busy anyways...I need to stay focused:confused:.
    .
     
  30. tom in nh
    Joined: Oct 16, 2011
    Posts: 61

    tom in nh
    Member

    Ahh! The power of the pussy will make you veer off track.
    Stay focused Frank!
    I, too, would like to see the Cord electrical bypass mods.
    Best of luck.
    Tom
     
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