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Technical 1932 Pickup Rebuild Thread UPDATED 1/11/16

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Dennis Lacy, Apr 5, 2015.

  1. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,800

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Have you tried painting the springs with dry graphite? We use it at work on turbine parts. Seems tough and slippery.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  2. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,083

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    I have never tried that. I do grease the spring leaves which I will show when I get to assembly next week.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  3. jerseyboy
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 634

    jerseyboy
    Member

    I just got done painting a 32' rear spring with the graphite. I have used it on some other shop items and like how it holds up. We'll so how it works on the spring. I have read several posts where people recommend using it.
     
  4. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,083

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    UPDATE!

    No pictures to share (I have to let my Wife have a turn with the camera once in a while!) but on Friday I did get all of my powder coating back and I managed to get all of the small pieces and hardware painted during the week. We also received a big order to re-stock our MT brake parts so now I have the front brakes on-hand. They will get a little work then go to get coated.

    What does all of this mean? It means stay tuned next week for a step-by-step assembly guide of the front axle and some other chassis related parts!
     
    TexasSpeed likes this.
  5. TexasSpeed
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    Posts: 4,618

    TexasSpeed
    Member

    Anxiously awaiting your next update!
     
  6. Robert Fisher
    Joined: Jun 7, 2015
    Posts: 1

    Robert Fisher

    Awesome build and thanks for sharing!
     
  7. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,914

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Is it the long or short can ? The long one will not fit under a 4 barrel intake unless you flatter it.
     
  8. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,083

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    Front Brakes

    Last week we received a re-stock shipment from MT. Below are the Lincoln-style reproduction Bendix brakes that they make. This particular set is correctly drilled for 1928 - 1936 spindles. This eliminates the need for the adapter ring normally required to fit 1941 or 1942-1948 Lincoln brakes onto the early spindles. You do still need to use the bearing spacer on the spindle snout.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    In the picture below is an MT brake plate (left) and an original Lincoln brake plate (right.) The original plate is a rear but other than the hole for the hand brake cable assembly is the same as a 1941 front. Notice that the original plate has an additional shield ring attached around its outside diameter. 1941 and 1942-1948 original Lincoln front brake plates have this shield, as do the rears.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    The MT brakes were originally developed by a man named Dave Wilton. When Dave started out making these brakes he did a run of the outer shield rings so that users could add them on if they desired a more authentic appearance. As it turned out, most people did not buy them because they didn't really care or did not want to spend the additional money for them to be installed on the brake plates. Early on, the rings were discontinued. My Dad ended up stashing a set of them just so we'd have them for personal use, should one of us desire.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    Here are the outer shield rings mocked up on the new brake plates.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    Years ago we made a pattern with evenly spaced holes that could be laid on top of another ring and transfer marked.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    Here I have drilled the shield rings. They will then be welded to the brake plates using the holes.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    Here the rings have been carefully clamped to the brake plates for welding. Great care was taken to make sure they are clamped uniformly around the diameter of the brake plate so that no interference with the brake drums will occur. There wasn't enough time in the day (Mondays are always a challenge) so they will get welded tomorrow.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    A Lesson In Reproduction Lincoln - Style Bendix Brakes

    In addition to MT Car Products there is also a company called Wilson Welding in Texas that produces Lincoln - style Bendix brakes. Wilson Welding came first. Shown below is a used Wilson Welding brake plate (left) and an MT brake plate (right.)

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    Below is a close up of the wheel cylinder / upper anchor bolt area of the MT brake plate. Note that the wheel cylinder hole is shaped correctly like the original Lincoln brakes. Also note that the anchor bolt hole is slotted and allows 1/8" of up and down movement, correctly like the original Lincoln brakes. This is so that upon initial assembly and adjustment of the brakes, the sliding anchor bolt allows for the brake shoes to be set so that they are exactly centered in the brake drum, providing full contact of the brake shoes against the drum. A very important feature!

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    Below is a close up of the same area of a Wilson Welding brake plate. Note that the shape of the wheel cylinder hole is not the same as an original. Three separate holes were drilled to avoid having to mill the shape of the hole. Functionally it does not pose a problem as the wheel cylinder fits and so do the two retaining bolts. More importantly, look at the shoe anchor bolt. It offers zero adjustment (up and down) of the brake shoes making it impossible to correctly center the brake shoes in the drum.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    When the Wilson Welding brakes were first introduced 12 or 13 years ago we started selling them. At the time we were also in the midst of building my Dad's 1934 Roadster. We decided since we were selling the brakes that we needed to test them so we actually knew how they performed and could offer educated help to our customers. With that we installed a complete set of front and rear on my Dad's car. Once we got the car on the road it became painfully obvious that the brakes didn't work worth a damn. Properly adjusted Bendix brakes should put your head through the windshield with little effort. They feel like power brakes, especially the big 12" Lincoln style versions on a light weight early Ford. In the case of my Dad's roadster, it would barely stop. We got one of my Dad's long-time friends involved who is a retired automotive engineer who specialized in brakes at one time. After assessing the brakes he came to the conclusion that the holes for the anchor pins were 1/16" too high. That may not seem like a lot but it was enough to throw off the shoe alignment and not allow full contact of the shoes to the drums. (If we pushed the pedal hard enough the brake shoes would eventually be forced into place and the brakes would lock up but under typical pedal effort the brakes were no better than worn out mechanicals.) As a fix for my Dad's roadster, he suggested removing the anchor bolts and offset machining them 1/16". We set aside a day to work on it. We started with the fronts. After modifying the anchor bolts so that they would drop the shoes down 1/16" I reassembled the brakes, adjusted them and test drove the car. Having been used to having to stand on the brake pedal to get the car to stop before, I did so without thinking and literally almost went through the windshield. NOW the brakes were working! With the success of the modification to the front we did the same to rears and the braking improved another considerable amount. The car flat out STOPS! We ended up performing this fix for the customers that we had sold Wilson Welding brakes to.

    We made Wilson Welding aware of the situation and they're response was less than enthusiastic so we stopped selling their brakes. I am not aware that they have done anything to fix the problem? I have seen current production plates and the anchor holes are still not slotted. The finned cast aluminum brake plates that they produce are the same way. If they have somehow fixed this issue, someone please correct me.

    Shortly after this Dave Wilton started producing the MT Car Products brakes with his goal to correct the issues with the Wilson Welding versions. We worked with him as advisers and testers to help him ensure that the MT brakes would function every bit as good as original Lincoln Bendix brakes. Several years ago Dave Wilton sold MT and it is now owned and operated by Derek Boling of Boling Brothers Hot Rods and he is doing a fine job of it.
     
  9. This thread is providing a lot of education.
    Thanks!
    I see a set of your king pin and torrington bearings in my future.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,233

    Budget36
    Member

    Very informative.

    Had to type something to subscribe.
     
    overdrivendave likes this.
  11. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,862

    alchemy
    Member

    We've got some Wilson brakes here for a project. I'll be sure to re-mill the top slot before assembly. Thanks.
     
  12. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 6,618

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    When the Wilson Welding brakes first came on the market I jumped on the band wagon and sold several sets but then Dave started MT and they seemed like a better product to me. I've sold countless sets of MT's both front and rear and have yet to have a customer complaint. I have them F&R on my current deuce roadster and just put them on the front of my new deuce PU project. Dave was an interesting fellow and I agree Derek is doing a fine job. Dennis, your project is a great education for many HAMB members, your dad has helped me several times. You guys are an asset to the hobby.
     
    overdrivendave and volvobrynk like this.
  13. Great info! Look forward to the next installments.
     
    overdrivendave likes this.
  14. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,772

    Pewsplace
    Member

    Very informative and useful to those of us who are into traditional but safe style hot rods. Thanks for your well presented article.
     
    overdrivendave likes this.
  15. KJSR
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,298

    KJSR
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Utah
    1. Utah HAMBers

    Thanks for all of the information in this post and taking the time to do so. I really have enjoyed the tech!
     
  16. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,191

    Mart
    Member

    The hamb at it's best.

    Mart.
     
  17. 31Apickup
    Joined: Nov 8, 2005
    Posts: 2,311

    31Apickup
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    One of the best informative threads I've seen in a while.
     
    i.rant likes this.
  18. BCR
    Joined: Dec 11, 2005
    Posts: 1,263

    BCR
    Member

    That is great information. Funny timing as I called Gary and he turned me onto this post about the brake anchor pin.
     
  19. There have been quite a few candidates for 'best tech thread ever' over the years, but I nominate this one for 'best written and information packed.' :)
     
    kidcampbell71 and volvobrynk like this.
  20. Kiwi Tinbender
    Joined: Feb 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,155

    Kiwi Tinbender
    Member

    Dennis--I hadn`t read through your thread until now. It should be required reading for anyone that claims to be a traditional builder, and really for anyone that has an Early Ford of any description. I have learnt a tremendous amount from these posts, and I have been putting stuff together for almost 40 years now. I really want to thank you for taking the time to document what you are doing so clearly and concisely. Thanks Again---and, as 7W Larry has often said....

    Patiently Waiting.......:D
     
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  21. als32
    Joined: Mar 6, 2012
    Posts: 3

    als32
    Member

  22. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,588

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    That's the shortest post in a long time!

    Premature posting of TWI, Typing While Influenced.
     
  23. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 2,882

    NealinCA
    Member

    Dennis - Can you go over the procedure of centering the brake shoes using the adjustment of the anchor pin?

    Thanks,

    Neal
     
  24. Stu Padasso
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 476

    Stu Padasso
    Member

    Neal, take a look at Boling Bros. website, tech articles, installing backing plates, article 2- it mentions how they recommend centering shoes on backing plates. Dennis may have more info when he chimes in. Just kidding on the SBC jab, I hope you know that- Steve
     
    overdrivendave likes this.
  25. jimad
    Joined: Aug 7, 2013
    Posts: 2

    jimad

    back in the late 50s I had a model a p/u. dumb kid, didn't know anything except what a saw in those small r&c mags and others. I should have left it stock, but put in a 265 sbc and a lasalle trans. really big rears and small front. drove it around the block once and then discovered girls and my dad made me sell it since it just sat in his garage. I think I got $600 for it and all the fenders,etc. dumb me. really interesting to see how it should be done. thx.

    jim
     
  26. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,083

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    Thank you to everyone who has responded to this thread so far. Your comments and questions are appreciated and encouraged!

    The procedure I used to adjust the shoe centering is as follows:

    With brakes fully assembled, the anchor bolt nut tight and with the brake drum in place I first loosen the anchor bolt nut slightly, just enough that I start to see the lock washer underneath it relax just a touch. Doing so will allow the anchor bolt to move but not let it go cockeyed from the tension of the brake shoe return springs. It needs to stay perpendicular to the brake plate. I then turn the lower brake shoe adjuster through the slot with a typical brake shoe adjuster spoon tool until the shoes contact the drum, the drum is locked and can't be turned by grabbing the drum with two hands unless extreme force is applied. I then take a rubber mallet and swat around the diameter of the brake drum, about where the top and bottom edges of the brakes are. If anything is hanging up the impacts will knock everything into place. At this point I grab the drum with two hands and try to turn it again. Almost always I find that it can be turned with a heavy drag meaning the shoes settled a bit and aren't quite as tight against the drum. I then tighten the adjuster 1 or 2 more notches as needed to lock the brake drum again. At this point I tighten the anchor bolt nut and back the shoe adjuster off 15 notches. The drum will stay locked until about the 6th or 7th notch. By the 12th it should turn freely without touching the shoes. The brake shoes are now centered and clearance set. I find that 15 notches on the adjuster is a good compromise so that the brakes aren't super touchy and sudden when the pedal is pressed.
     
  27. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 2,882

    NealinCA
    Member

    Thanks Dennis...I will give that method a shot.
     
  28. Kiwi Tinbender
    Joined: Feb 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,155

    Kiwi Tinbender
    Member

    Neal...It would be good to get a Test Drive Report on what you find....
     
  29. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,083

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    Front Brakes Part 2

    Here are the MT reproduction lincoln brakes with the outer rings welded on.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    Here they are after grinding down all of the welds with a pneumatic disk sander.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki

    I dropped them off Wednesday afternoon to be powder coated and was hoping to get lucky and have them back today but it wasn't in the cards. Oh well. Will probably have them back Monday or Tuesday. I have plenty to keep me busy.

    The front axle assembly is finished and turned out quite nice. I will get an assembly write-up taken care of this weekend. Stay tuned!
     
    kidcampbell71 and volvobrynk like this.
  30. Dennis, this is a fantastic thread full of great information...I'm sure they will look great after they come back from the powder coaters.
     
    overdrivendave likes this.

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