The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Dennis Lacy, Apr 5, 2015.
ha. Thought the dog ate my homework, but 117Harv found it. Dennis don't mind me, I'm reading today. Great stuff, as you already know. Thank you !
Wow! Great build! Thank you for taking the time of going into detail on each step of the build. I felt like I was reading Volume 2 of Bishop and Tardel's, "How to Build a Traditional Hot Rod". It's great to see somebody not afraid to run an early Ford toploader behind a OHV motor. How is it working with the 33" tall tires? What kind of speeds are you cruising at on the freeway?
Great Job Dennis..!!!! I learned a lot from your writings .
Hi and thanks for this very helpful post on these brakes. Great thread too on this sweet pick-up.
My issue has been that the leading shoe on my Lincoln backing plate/Buick drum combo has been pulling into the inside of the Buick drum face. My drums were 'as new' showing zero wear...had them trued to the hubs of coarse as well.
Now I've read this post and things are getting better.... filed pin hole...opening it so shoes could find centre and all. So far so good....brakes vastly improved...but my old issue got worse. After 3 days of buggerising around ... brakes apart and back together many many times I 'think' I may have found my other issue...can someone help?
Seems to me, and I do not 'know' ... that the plate that the top of the shoes are near to under the pin is not sitting in the correct place. Are the top of the shoes meant to ride on these? I guessed that they should and that either the wrong shoes were supplied to the Lincoln copy kit maker without their knowledge .... or the plate in question is too thin?
I have made a temporary shim at the back to place this plate in the 'correct' position...I think.
Any way, the issue with the shoes seems to be fixed.
The pedal is higher then it ever was....27,000 miles on it now, and the brakes are working as they never had. I had no idea that they'd be as good as they are now. I expect that if I'm on the right track that these brakes will only get better when I do a permanent fix.
See attached photos. first one shoes the shoe not parallel with the supplied plate position that I'm asking about and that I have since shimmed out about 3 mil. The next photo shows the angled wear at the bottom of the leading shoe. ( I lightly scuffed and cleaned the shoes and drums before I started)
What does someone who knows think of all this? Thanks, Dave
This thread is absolutely insane. I found a random link to it and spent the next hour skimming threw it. Wow. Can't wait to start at the beginning and read it threw!
Ok it took a couple days but I got threw it! Dang I think my brain is stuffed to the max!
Thoughts and questions:
1: any shots of the trans mount from the trans side not the torque tube side? Curious how it bolts on
2: that black air filter helped a ton! With the needed riser and the bright element I just hated it. Black element and it just disappeared! Perfect
3: any info on putting the earlier torque tube to the later trans? Is there a specific clam shell needed or?
4: thank you! I honestly may have to figure out a way to copy all this info and photos and use some on demand printer to get me a hard copy for the garage shelf. Good lord do I appreciate all this information with photos that actually make since!
Hey Dennis love your build and had a talk with your dad ,I sent my axle to Greg and am planning to have him send to you when done ill bring spindles over im in San diego and have you bend the arms looking forward to seeing the shop and meeting you and your dad
Thanks a bunch! The early Ford driveline should provide many years of reliable use as long as I keep my right foot off the floor board. With at least 4x the horsepower and more than double the torque of the old banger, half throttle is more than enough. I must say what everyone else does, these little 283's sure are snappy with the revs!
The big tires are working out great. The engine has plenty of low-end and it really doesn't care what size tire is back there. The truck seems to be happy at 60-65 on the freeway. The big problem with these square cab trucks is that there are no aerodynamics whatsoever and the visor really compounds the problem because it acts like a big air brake. You can feel the thing starting to hit a wall after 65. It'll definitely go faster (and it has) but you can hear the engine working hard and the wind noise in front of the windshield is pretty wicked. Sounds like a damn tornado!
Aside from that, the truck goes down the freeway really nice and straight. The Lucas front tires and STA truck tires out back barely have any wander over the grooves in the road. Nothing like the typical Firestone Deluxe Champions. The front tires seem to be really soft, though, and have worn quite a bit but I've also driven the truck a bunch.
Around town the truck is like a dream compared to before. The 283 makes it effortless to drive. It's nice to make the 30 minute drive to the shop in the morning and not feel beat to hell. That 50 horse 4-banger was constant work to keep it moving. Upshifting, downshifting, lugging when you really needed 1st gear. Now it's just bitchin!
I'm glad you enjoyed it so much!
1) All of the pictures in this thread are all the ones I took. The trans mount bolts to the K-member with four 7/16" bolts which can be seen just outside of the large diamond shaped hole that the tail of the trans bearing retainer pokes through to meet up with the torque tube.
2) I'm still not in love with the Edelbrock air filter. I've actually found a bitchin 40's Ford or Merc oil bath that I'm going to modify to take a filter element. Then I can get rid of the modern filter and spacer stack (which was needed to clear the generator.) When I get around to doing it I'll share it here in the thread.
3) There's nothing special about hooking the early rear to the later trans, they go right together. '32-'34 torque tubes had a one piece u-joint cap (clamshell) that was installed during the manufacturing of the tube so it's captured on there but free to slide up and down the tube. In '35 they went to the two piece style and stayed with that through '48. You can cut the one-piece off an early torque tube and use the two-piece if you prefer.
4) Your very welcome! There's always more than one way to do things, this is just how I like to do them.
My Dad told me about your talk and I had a look at the thread you started. Looking forward to meeting you soon and helping you out with your truck!
By chance did we speak on the phone some time back? This seems very familiar...
Getting the shoes centered in the drum is a major factor in how well these brakes work. Just the slightest bit off and the braking power becomes significantly compromised!
That large plate at the top/inside of the brake plate above the wheel cylinder should absolutely be parallel with the shoe and the shoe should rest on it along with the two raised areas on the plate about in the middle of the shoe. They are there to keep the shoe aligned parallel with the drum surface. It looks like your brake plates may have suffered some slight manufacturing defect and could most certainly cause the issue you (hopefully) were having by allowing the shoe to twist when applied. Good catch!
The other factor that is so important is that the shoes are arc-ground to exactly match the radius of the drum so that you get full heel to toe contact. It is very rare to have a shoe match the drum perfectly right out of the box.
Hi again Dennis,
Thanks so much for your reply and input. I'll do a permanent fix on the guide plate now. I am not the one you spoke to on the phone, so it seems another person saw and had the same problem. The
Wilson kit I have is very well made...I've seen some with very cheap adjusters and retainer springs on other brakes but mine are very good. It's just this mismatch that occurred somehow. I had my coupe up to 80 m.p.h. for some tests and got on the brakes and it pulled up very hard like it had discs on the front. What a change! Thanks again and I'm sure that this information will help many drum brake owners achieve superior brake performance ... and may even save a life down the track.
Great build thread, good work. I like the engine mounts and am keen to try and use a set, any idea where I can get a set?
Man thanks again for such a stellar thread. Putting my A together I've come back to this thread and your photos dozens of times.
This pic makes me giddy every time I see it, here or in my saved file.
Hi again Dennis ....... I've got the front brakes working now and the car just plain stops and with a 50% reduction in pedal pressure. I've had the drums and or shoes off that many times I've been over it for quite some time. A slow learner I guess.....but I have found two things of note. Firstly, I believe that the reason the leading shoes have been moving away from the backing plates was more about the spring pre-load on the little shoe retaining springs. I think they may have been too short/light. I've placed a small thick washer, 1/8", at the base of all the springs and bingo, no scrapping! Statically they compress very easily initially but passed that point,when preloaded, they are quite firm. secondly, the lowest pad the shoes ride on closest to the adjusting slot looks to have its outer edge and flat surface further away from the edge of the backing plate than the other. Also, without the slot and squared threads on the anchor pin bolt, there is no way to tighten the pin with out spinning every thing. The next time, if ever the brakes comes completely apart, I'll slot the pad for adjustment and weld it to the backing plate and slot the end of the bolt/pin to take a fat screwdriver to hold it while tightening the nut. Many thanks again and best wishes for the new year, David
After reading flowmeisters thread I can see where he got his inspiration from.
Unfortunately here in OZ original and aftermarket parts are rarely available as I'm sure my fellow OZ members will attest, so a period build is always a uphill battle.
Also with the current exchange rate a good hotrod can cost twice the amount, however all things considered Is it possible to get parts sent over when when needed as I'm just starting a 34 pickup build very similar to both yours and flows trucks and then my 31 5w possibly with flatheads.
Back in the thread someone mentioned the use of a needle gun which are fine if you follow the correct safety procedure the reason is that the tips of the needles are generally coated in beryillium a very hard alloy and extremely cancerogenic especially when inhaled, it makes asbestos look like breakfast cereal so be warned
Keep up the fantastic work
Dude, This is the most helpful thread EVER!
I bought my Dads 47 to tinker with, and Bond with him before its too late, but he lives 2 hours away, so I was looking for blogs on traditional hot rods, and early Drive trains, ETC. since I have to work on it alone alot, and he wont be around forever, Example, I just discovered the other day, I need a special puller to get the rear drums off, just to do brakes, SUCK!....but another thread on here, showed how to make one similar to the KSW stock puller, BUT this Idea is Grand, I am going to do this, my drums are to thin to turn, and adjust anymore, so this will buy time, alow me to monitor the wear easily until I can afford a Lincoln/bendex conversion from Drake, Thanks so much, I will checking on this Build alot for pointers!
Next section is the traditional "Pro Street"rebuild. Wheel tubs, blown big block Chevy with nitrous. Stay tuned when Dennis widens the wire wheels to his 14" projected rim width. Wheelie bars from '35 rear wishbones.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch ......
Who knows ? Maybe this part has grooved Firestones ? It can't just end here .... could it ? ( never be done, never be done, never be done ) ( insert many, many please sirs here / always a favorite thread )
I have to reference this article daily. If I have a problem with something ,Just look it up here. As I have said before, this should be in print. That would save time going back to the house to look things up. Great job.. ..Thanks !!
I was so excited to see your pick-up at the GNRS on Saturday! I didn't get much time to study it in depth but it caught my eye from quite a distance away.
I also watched you leave the fairgrounds in it. I wish I had a chance to stop you and introduce myself.
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I'm bummed I didn't see it. Where was it parked?
Ha! I wouldn't hold my breath for the pro-street version!
I do have more to do and when I get to I'll be updating the thread as I go. I plan to tweak the rear spring to get the back down a couple of inches and I still need to install rear shocks. I haven't yet because I was pretty sure I was gonna alter the height so I didn't want to make the brackets twice. I'm gonna lower the front a little more, too, by putting the reversed eye spring leaf back in that I originally did.
I'm hoping to get these things done before the LA Roadster Show in June.
Thank you! Other people keep telling me the same, it's really flattering. I don't know, maybe? We'll see!
I was parked outside the far end of building 6 where the fence borders the Sheraton parking lot.
Too bad we couldn't meet but I'm glad you enjoyed seeing it! I didn't spend a lot of time by it, wanted to see as much of the show as possible.
When I was driving out I couldn't hear myself think over that blown Chevy II and blown Chevelle in front of me!
I disagree with this.
I thought all car fellows from oz comes up every year to buy cars and parts, glad to see all you guys come up
Mine has no problem driving 100-125. You need to work on that 283.
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