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1930s Era Champ Car - new project

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, Nov 20, 2007.

?

Another question: Posi or non-posi?

Poll closed Aug 18, 2021.
  1. Posi for two-wheel traction

    100.0%
  2. No Posi for better handling in the corners.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. I have really enjoyed reading every post and responses and look forward to more. You are or will soon get into the lights, turn signal, controls, etc. so I thought I would share what I did on my old dirt track car to get it on the street. ('30s flat tail, 92" wb, '27 T frame, '31 Model A rear end, '39 trans, B motor). btw, I take zero credit for the build, it was found/built by a then 70 yo, Bill Gerard, who raced after WW2 on dirt tracks across the mid west. He then raced the car with the WRA on a regular basis until he turned 85.
    As you previously mentioned, I also had an issue putting switches in the dash. I used an al extrusion tucked on the driver's left side housing the switches, turn signal control (SDC from Speedway), terminal block, fuses. IMG_3509.jpg
    For headlights, I used 3 1/2" dia motorcycle lights, running bulb for turn signals and brights for running lights. The lights unplug in the frame channel. Probably nothing legal about my set up but I bypassed the inspection with the court ordered title/registration route. (cincinnati). And yes, the springs/axle cast a mean shadow:) IMG_3343.jpg IMG_3509.jpg IMG_3508.jpg IMG_3505.jpg IMG_3343.jpg IMG_3346.jpg
    https://www.wwag.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WebSite.woa/wa/DirectAction?page=!105102#0
    For the tail lights, I have just one bulb for brake and turn since I'll never drive at night. IMG_3505.jpg
    IMG_3509.jpg IMG_3508.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  2. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thanks for sharing pictures of your ride feynmanfan and your ideas too. Your car has some excellent features that I like

    The grille is beautiful. How so many racers of that era were able to come up with such beautiful pieces is beyond me.

    Yes, I have been wracking my brain on the best way to mount removable headlights. They should come off when I'm out on the track. Tail lights - not so much. I found a pair of headlights (in New Zealand!) I would like to use. Same thing - low beams for turn; hi beams to drive by. Or maybe some of those modern bulbs with amber LEDs baked in for turn.

    The canted friction shocks are really period juicey. Are they adequate? And the wire wheels are beautiful. What brand?

    I'm liking that cord wrapped steering wheel look. I'll copy that.

    Your racer friend Bill Gerard is my hero. Racing at 85!

    I did a similar switch panel on my drag car. You can see it through the roll cage on the left side.

    As I near completion I plan to take the car down your way for a set of Dayton wire wheels and maybe convince Mr. Josh Shaw to do the graphics on the car. I would love to see your car in person if possible. Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  3. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Its sweltering hot here this afternoon but I'm headed to the garage to do some welding on the car. Yuk
     
  4. Your drag car is awesome, I can't imagine what it feels like. The Hartford friction shocks do work just fine, at least my 70 yo butt thinks so. The wheels are a bit of a mystery but the thought is 50s to 60s Daytons. Bill is 99 yo now and I've not been able to reach him. I posted a "what are these" here asking for thoughts:
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ck-off-wire-wheels-are.1263281/#post-14473764
    Absolutely I would love to show you the car. It's a blast to drive, anywhere.
    And you will get a kick out of your visit to Dayton Wire Wheels. No fancy showroom, enter through a side factory door and the fellow (I forgot his name) will "get you".
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  5. 282doorUK likes this.
  6. Thanks Hjmaniac! Very cool story.
     
  7. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I've seen that video. Since mine does not have any circle track breeding I don't see why it won't handle as well as any other traditional roadster meant for the street.
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  8. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    In order to keep the hairpins from warping I made these hardwood spacers to hold them in alignment, making reassembly easier. After welding the hairpin slipped right in.

    sr_wishbones05.JPG
     
  9. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I'll take a short break on this project to turn my attention to my Attic Anglia. The engine for that car is coming from another donor car - this Anglia. This week the engine gets pulled from this Anglia and replaced by a much stouter 303 ci Ford six. That leaves me with a complete, running 243 ci six for my little beast. The 303 is a real stump puller, what with a 4" stroke but the 243 likes to rev to the moon with a cam and head work and a stroke of only 3.18". Very fun to drive. Additionally its crunch time at my local drag strip and I'll be racing for a spot on the NHRA Division E.T. finals team.
     

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  10. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I heard back from my axle supplier. Without boring you with details an exact copy of my old axle is not going to be possible to build. Some concessions are going to have to be made to get a new axle shaft. The supplier is genuinely interested in helping me out but for now until I decide what I want and need back there I am stalled at getting a replacement shaft. I'll disassemble my brakes and the other side axle completely so I can fully transmit my needs and dimensions to them.
    One thing that concerns me is I built the single axle trailer to the exact width needed for the track width of the car. Moving the flanges outward a fraction of an inch, combined with the fact that my Dayton wires also will need a spacer to adapt the knock-offs to the 5 x 5.5 BC also adds width to the rear track. If that's what it takes so be it. I'll add width to the rear of the trailer ramps. Sigh
     

    Attached Files:

  11. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    Those sort of problems are the reason you get out of bed each day.
     
    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER likes this.
  12. chessterd5
    Joined: May 26, 2013
    Posts: 902

    chessterd5
    Member
    from u.s.a.

    In the words of the best mechanic I ever knew. " it's all fixable!"
     
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  13. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Yes it is, and hopefully there is a solution on the way. I re-assembled my axle with the new brakes and the original axles and carefully measured all the critical dimensions. After talking to the tech experts at QP I have two new axles on the way to go along with the new 2.25" brake assemblies. Not only will I now have increased stopping power I will have axles with known history (none). On close inspection even the axle on the right side showed shoddy machining on the splines from Ford (gasp!) and lots of spline wear. I feel safer with new axles.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    While waiting for axles I did some work on the rear braking feature. I thought about putting the tab to hold the cable ends on the frame but it worked out better to weld it on to the bottom of the shoulder harness hoop. Then a little bit of linkage with an equalizer bar was needed.

    brake 34.JPG brake 35.JPG brake 36.JPG brake 37.JPG

    While I was poking around back there I reconsidered how and where to put the gas tank filler tube. It looks like there will not be enough room to affix to the original opening since I do not want to place the cap on the head rest fairing and spoil its lines. The cap will be placed just behind the roll bar on the left side of the bustle. I'll fab a tube to weld on the upper left corner for the straightest shot at the cap possible.

    gas tank 25.JPG gas tank 27.JPG
     
  15. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I made the cable connecting link. It required I make a dimple die to retain the cable in the link. I need another cable for the other wheel and I can complete the system. brake 38.JPG
     
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  16. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I have sufficient parts to be able to reassemble the seat and get in the car to locate the hand brake handle and set all the pieces so that they are clocked in the proper position for welding. I welded all the little bits up to make the brake handle functional.
    brake 39.JPG
     
    Dave G in Gansevoort likes this.
  17. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Looks good! Handbrake will be really handy.
     
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  18. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thanks Dave. I have a hand brake in a couple of my drag roadsters and find them to be more precise and give a good feel for fine applications. Those operate a hydraulic cylinder. This will be totally mechanical.\
    I painted all the components and made some cable ferrules which I will swedge and TIG when the cables are cut to length. I had some electrical shrink wrap that I fitted up to the brake handle. I like the finished look.

    brake 40.JPG
     
  19. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I went to Indy to drag race this past weekend and when I got home my new axles had arrived, as did a new E-brake cable. Now I have the task of assembling the rear end. For sure the cables will need modifications at both ends of the cables in order to make a matched pair that will give equal braking to both rear wheels at the same time.

    axle rr 13.JPG
     
    SR100 likes this.
  20. I am guessing that I am a day late and a dollar short with this.

    Brake Drum Relining & Refurbishing | McHenry, IL | J&G Brake Relining (jgrelining.com)

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    Our products are made in the USA with American-made materials and are distributed to vintage car enthusiasts globally. We do all welding and machining in-house. We also offer 3 different compounds for brake pads, depending on your application.

    We have sold over 2,500 relined Pontiac aluminum brake drums and wheels. We also maintain an inventory of 1960-1968 relined aluminum brake drums and wheels, and 1962 short fin Aluminum Brake Drums with new liners and wheels.

    Our relined drums are being used for street use while others are used for drag and road racing. We have the largest use of drums than any other vendors across the board, giving us very large feedback on usages. This important information helps us to better serve our customers needs.

    We are steadily adding to the types of vehicles we service, whether domestic or foreign, stately or super-charged, we are more than capable of maximizing your stopping performance. We look forward to hearing about your vehicle - allow us to maximize your stopping performance!
     
  21. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thanks for the reference HJ. I think I have my stopping task handled with the parts on hand, but I will keep the contact for future use if necessary.
     
  22. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I had ordered two mis-matched E-brake cables that had the proper housing length. I knew the ends needed to be modified to make them compatible with my brakes. For starters, I turned a housing end to match my backing plate.
    brake 41.JPG
    Next I made a single-use fixture from metal scraps to position the cables in the same relationship as they will be inside the brake drums. This will save me from having to disassemble the brake parts several times to measure up other mods needed. One return spring needed shortening.
    brake 42.JPG
    brake 43.JPG

    On the lever end the cables got shortened and new ferules were made and swaged on to the cable. For insurance, I then fused and welded a nugget of metal on the end of the ferule to insure it would not pull off.
    brake 44.JPG
    brake 45.JPG
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
    HJmaniac likes this.
  23. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I installed the backing plates, axle shafts and brake drums. Everything fit perfectly this time. Kudos to QP for working with me to get me parts to fit this axle of elusive lineage. Now I can paint the drums and plumb up the rear brake lines.

    On a more somber note I wish everybody in the hurricane Ian impact zone good luck. Stay safe. I have a little getaway spot in Naples and we are watching The Weather Chanel continuously for news of the storm. I may have to dash down there after power is restored to clean up and make repairs if needed.
     
  24. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    TECH TIP:

    Rustoleum 2000* brake drum paint is ordered. While waiting for it to arrive I wanted to knock down some of the sharp edges on the drums. So I took one of the old axles and bored a hole in a plank to receive the axle shaft. That allows the drum to spin as the grinder smooths things out. I'll save the axle - it may come in handy to mount a wheel for pin striping rims.

    brake 46.JPG brake 47.JPG
     
  25. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    You know you could do a complete 'garage tips' by yourself. Keep it cranking, lovely work.
     
    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER likes this.
  26. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thanks spanners. I've got lots of black and white photos of techniques I've tried - before digital cameras. I'll get them posted someday.

    I ordered some generic shock absorbers for the rear axle this evening. They have neoprene eyelets on each end. I am wondering what the best orientation should be - mounting bolt parallel to the frame and perpendicular to the axle... or... mounting bolts perpendicular to the frame and parallel to the axle? I know spherical ball ends would be best, but trying to go easier on the budget with bushed ends. In one position they will bind with axle rise and in the other position they will bind with axle twist, both of which will be happening.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2022
  27. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I also ground an acute sharp edged angle on the adjuster pawl to insure positive engagement with the star wheel adjuster.

    brake 48.JPG

    My brake hose arrived too. I need to make a mounting tab and a 3/8 weld stud.

    brake 49.JPG
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
  28. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I made a bunch of brackets and tabs in preparation for doing the brake lines and mounting shock absorbers. When I welded up the frame rails I installed weld nuts inside the frame in anticipation of using them to mount the shocks. My initial plans were for lever shocks, and I may still go that way if I find a suitable pair to use. But until then I needed a quick solution to rear shocks so I ordered a pair of tube shocks. The brackets I made are generic enough that they can be used for either lever or tube style shocks. The brackets were hacked out of leftover pieces of Lakewood traction bars of suitable size. I mocked up the approximate locations using a shortie shock I had on hand.

    axle rr 14.JPG axle rr 15.JPG axle rr 16.JPG
     
  29. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    BTW, a good use for political signs that show up on your property without your permission.
     

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  30. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    So not CAD. What should it be called?
     
    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER likes this.

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