Register now to get rid of these ads!

1930s Era Champ Car - new project

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, Nov 20, 2007.

?

Another question: Posi or non-posi?

Poll closed Aug 18, 2021.
  1. Posi for two-wheel traction

    100.0%
  2. No Posi for better handling in the corners.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The champ car has a number.
    It's 6!
    That should come as no surprise to any who know me. So to keep my artistic juices flowing I decided to put a "6" on the stone guard. Many photos I've seen of numbers painted on grilles and radiators showed less than great results when somebody painted a radiator or grille screen. That is because the paint does not cover all the surfaces inside the fins or screen and the paint has a fuzzy effect. I decided to mask and paint both sides of the screen to make the number outline crisp. I used a creamy Rustoleum in a spray can.

    paint 01.JPG paint 02.JPG paint 03.JPG paint 04.JPG
     
    64 DODGE 440 likes this.
  2. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The exhaust pipe needs attention. It needs to have the rear of the outlet skived on a 45 degree cut.

    Does anybody know for sure why this was done on many cars? I can think of two possibilities.

    First - it looks pretty cool. Many exhaust pipes of the '30s aircraft were sliced as they left the fusalage that way, probably for aerodynamics. Racers may have been imitating that.

    Secondly - and more logically - is that a straight cut tube will create a distinct backpressure wave as it hits the opening and reverberates back toward the engine. If this reverse pressure pulse hits at the wrong time, RPM wise, it could create a flat spot in the engine's torque curve, To mitigate that effect somebody sliced the exhaust at an angle so the pressure pulse got dissipated from no distinct tuning length of the pipe. If it worked then other racers may have done a monkey-see-monkey-do copy job and it got used elsewhere. This is purely conjecture on my part unless somebody can set me straight.

    I don't have a good machine to make the 45* cut so I decided to lay out a path on paper to trace and use a cutoff wheel to do it. I decided to shorten the pipe a little too. If I ever back the car into the wall I do not want the exhaust pipe to be the first thing to hit. I made a paper pattern and stuck it on the pipe and cut the angle. Then, using the same pattern I laid out three attachment points for mounting screws and three additional holes at the rear to hold the muffler insert. Finally I tapped the muffler insert for three 8-32 screws and fastened it inside the pipe with vibration proof (troicho-centric) screws.

    Now I can drill the front of the pipe to join it to the header and then weld on the heat shield for the driver.

    exhaust 01.JPG exhaust 02.JPG exhaust 03.JPG exhaust 04.JPG exhaust 05.JPG exhaust 06.JPG
     
  3. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I'm tired of looking at the cardboard engine cover. I'm going to skin it in aluminum, starting with the side panels.
    I made the passenger side. I had made a set of louver dies for my DiAcro press so this looked like a good place to use them. I wonder how much 42 louvers cost these days?
    I also drilled and tapped the header collector three places to hold the exhaust pipe on. That job did not go well. I broke the tap off in the stainless header. Now what? I couldn't access the broken off tap from the inside. Fortunately the gods of rodding smiled down on me and I was able to shatter the remaining tap bits with a couple of chisels and punches, making the removal of the tailpipe possible.

    Hood 04.JPG

    Hood 05.JPG
     
  4. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I finished the drivers side hood side panel and rolled the car out into the sunshine for a couple of glamour shots. Now I'll need to do the hood. It seems like it should have a slight bulge in it. After I roll it and form it I am going to see if it will fit under my English wheel to roll in a little convexity.

    Hood 06.JPG Hood 07.JPG sr_105.JPG sr_106.JPG Tow Bar - Eng Wheel.jpg
     
  5. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    A friend donated an unused socket (who needs a 31/32 socket?) to use for the hand brake bell crank. I'll weld it all together. The part of the crank that sticks up above the pivot will be left temporarily in case I need to affix a return spring or brake light switch up there.


    brake 25.JPG

    brake 26.JPG

    brake 27.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2022
  6. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Back on the hood -
    I made a pattern of the "bulge" I desire. Then I decided to bend a piece of thinwall square tube to conform to the pattern. Since I had no large die for bending square tubing I used an old tractor gear for a die and formed a gentle arch in it. I will anchor the sheet metal to it. I may also do a piece of square on each side to give the hood some structure. The cowl is one inch higher than the nose so I do not want any more bulge than 1" max so the cowl doesn't go up hill.

    Hood 08.JPG Hood 09.JPG Hood 10.JPG
     
  7. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    More work on the center hood bow. I also made a tubular side piece which may or may not get incorporated into the hood, depending on how stiff the hood skin is by itself. I will make one for the carb side but it needs an arch in the middle of it to clear the carbs.

    Finally I made a wood arbor to place the hand brake lever arm properly and work on the cables, without having to install the brake handle, which requires removal of the left hairpin control arm (aka ladder bar) which was becoming an annoyance.

    Hood 11.JPG Hood 12.JPG brake 28.JPG
     
  8. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    After taking a few days to get ready for this year's drag racing season I made a couple of mounts for the rear crash bar attachment. The crash bars will be made from surplus stainless steel boat railing, purchased from a local boat salvage yard. In addition to the stainless railing I found some other useful boating items like bilge fans, the same fans used for brake cooling ducts in stock cars. I use them for transmission oil coolers and they are a fraction of the cost of new ones in racing catalogs.

    crash bars 01.JPG crash bars 02.JPG
     
  9. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Here is the 7/8" polished stainless steel boat railing I plan to use for crash bars. I have to knock off all the cast stanchions first. There already is some curvature in the tubes which should make fitting it up to the car easier, except I have no good way to put symmetric gentle bends in the tube. I may try to coax it in a #2 Diacro bender with homemade shoes and die.

    crash bars 03.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  10. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,402

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER likes this.
  11. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thanks GHQCE. I remember as a tot watching my dad bend up a go-kart frame using sand filled tube and a torch. I am a little anxious about trying to do a sweeping gentler bend around the tailpiece. Ironically enough I have benders that will do a tight radius, its the sweeping arcs that are commonly done on a ring roller type of machine that I am struggling with. I may try doing gentle sweeps on a press but I'll still need to turn a 7/8" roller die or some such.

    Boy, the more I work on this project the more I've come to appreciate the beautiful work done by the previous generation with less technology than available to us. GHQCE, You no doubt, have encountered this when working on early quick change axles, no?
     
    Dave G in Gansevoort likes this.
  12. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,402

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    Yes, some of the stuff guys have done to QCs is pretty creative. Some of it falls into another category.
    Welding of Magnesium and Aluminum is all over the map. Some real artistry and some really ugly stuff. Brackets are the same way.
     
    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER and jim32 like this.
  13. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,093

    spanners
    Member

    Last time I did some sand filled tube bending I dried the sand on a steel plate over a fire. It made pouring the sand in through a funnel a lot easier.
     
    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER likes this.
  14. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I affixed the crash bar sockets to the roll bar mounting plate. I leveled the sockets before welding. Then I inserted two chunks of boat railing to see how much additional bending is needed. Quite a bit to make them meet and follow the curvature of the tail.
    crash bars 04.JPG
    crash bars 03.JPG crash bars 05.JPG
     
    The Magic Ratchet likes this.
  15. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Like some hot rod builds in general.
     
  16. stingbean
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 228

    stingbean
    Member

    I saw this picture over on the "Vintage Shots From Days Gone By" thread and it made me think of your build and your hand brake/fuel pump/steering situation.

    I've really enjoyed following your thread and seeing all of the creative ideas you come up with. Can't wait to see how the crash bars turn out!

    [​IMG]
     
  17. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thank you stingbean. Its a tight fit in addition to getting things to look good.

    Speaking of looking good, I am not happy with the look of my rear crash bars. I looked back at several pictures of cars and all of the crash bars are closer to the body than mine would be. So I have a new idea. I am going to make an offset plate to bring the crash bars closer to the body work. Stay tuned.

    Speaking of looking good, take two: I want one of those ornate helmets like the driver of the Dayton Special is wearing.
     
  18. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,402

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

  19. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    A step forward and one back. I made stainless steel plates to offset the crash bars inward. crash bars 06.JPG crash bars 07.JPG crash bars 08.JPG

    I also tried to make a vertical central nerf bar but when I tried to bend it it collapsed. I'll need to rethink how to do that. The sand filled trick may work but I worry that heating the stainless up cherry red will discolor it and change its properties.
    crash bars 09.JPG
     
    The Magic Ratchet likes this.
  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Well, here's what I came up with for a crash bar. While I am not completely happy with the look it is the best I can do for now with my current technology. I may do something better in the future. One happy accident in all this is that I now have a convenient place to put plug-in tail/brake/turn lights.

    crash bars 10.JPG crash bars 11.JPG
     
  21. chessterd5
    Joined: May 26, 2013
    Posts: 902

    chessterd5
    Member
    from u.s.a.

    Maybe some strategically places gusset plates may enhance the look or Maybe some faux aerodynamic cover plates at the attaching point to the body.
    Just ideas out loud.
     
  22. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Maybe chessterd5.
    It could have worked out better had I chosen to pinch in the rear of the frame rails. But I still have plans to attach a '27 T body in place of the champ body, thereby ending up with two cars - a roundy round champ car and a center-steered nostalgia altered with the same rolling chassis. I wanted the full frame width for mounting the '27T. We'll see.
     
    The Magic Ratchet and chessterd5 like this.
  23. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    MEMORIAL DAY
    With the memory of all those hot rod hoodlum vets that never made it home -
    that never had a chance to follow their hot rod hoodlum dreams -
    that never had a chance to build their hot rod hoodlum cars -

    I went to the shop to do some work. First I made a couple of brackets to hold up the front edge of the seat pan. But I ran out of argon so I tack welded them in with a MIG. I also put some arch in at the front to clear the tailshaft, and drilled holes for Clecos until I can install Dzus buttons.
    Then since I had an empty argon tank to play with I jury rigged a crude radius brake to put the curvature in the hood top. The lovely Ms. Frenchtown Flyer was kind enough to help on the ratchet straps. We slid the hood in, pre-marked with tapered guidelines, and she clamped the blue strap tight, then I placed a piece of angle aluminum against the panel and pushed. We took it easy. Then she loosened the blue strap, lifted the landscape timber, re-positioned the hood and did it again. The first try did not give enough curvature, but we now have a system that will work and we can continue to add curvature until there is enough. Then a trip to the E-wheel to add some dome and done. seat 03.JPG Hood 13.JPG Hood 14.JPG Hood 15.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  24. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,670

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Well, now I know how I can make the hood for the Whatever project. Another idea to plaigerize...
     
  25. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Have at 'er Dave.
    We continued to roll curvature into the panel until it had about the right amount. I need to order hood a strap kit. The edges will all need to be further defined. I'm thinking of rolling the front and rear edges under for a clean look. The sides may get reinforced with thinwall square tubing.
    It still looks to have a concave surface. It is an optical illusion. That is why I have to do some E-wheel shaping to bring up the center of it.

    Random recollection: I once bought an aftermarket pickup box for my '46 project. In the instructions for installation it said "When you install the box on the frame crossmembers the truck may look like it is sagging in the middle. That is an optical illusion. Correct it to suit by shimming up the front of the box to make it look level." I ended up shimming it up 1.5 inches to get rid of that sway-back look.
    Hood 16.JPG Hood 17.JPG






    Tech tip for today: Positioning big panels into previously drilled Cleco holes is made easier by using these inexpensive stainless shish-ka-bob barbecue grilling skewers. Handy and cheap. 1/8" diameter
    Hood 18.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  26. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The side panels needed attachment tabs at a few corners. I had to weld on the upper tabs which, in retrospect, I could have just left enough metal on the panel blanks themselves to accomplish the same thing. No worries - I made them slightly thicker (.060") to withstand stresses. The top attachment points will all be hidden with the hood on so the Dzus buttons will not show.
    I ordered the hood strap kit too.
     
  27. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I meant to post these pics with the last posting. Attachment tabs for the side panels.

    Not much was done this weekend on the champ car as I spent it on a Bobcat doing some long neglected landscaping.

    Hood 19.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    The Magic Ratchet and chessterd5 like this.
  28. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Fit up on the side panels. I installed Dzus springs on the attachment tabs. I put the springs in using aluminum rivets because I will remove them prior to painting so I can get good prep / coverage around the springs, after which I will permanently install them with stainless steel rivets. Now the hood top can be fitted up to the side panels.

    Tech tip: I made a drill fixture tool to make Dzus spring installation easier and consistent.It fits the two most common spring spacings - 1 3/8" and 1".
    Hood 20.JPG Hood 21.JPG Hood 22.JPG Hood 23.JPG
     
  29. Cutting the exhaust pipe on a bias looks great but one night at Middletown while were were putting on a show,I ran into the left tailpipe on my V-8 60 midget while in the pits. Cut me like a razor and still have the long scar on the inside of my right knee. After that I always put covers on the pipes to avoid more cuts. You are doing great work. Following your progress.
     
  30. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,418

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thank you Donald for the tip. I will fashion some kind of plug for the exhaust. Until then, I've blunted / de-burred the edge.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.