Register now to get rid of these ads!

1930s Era Champ Car - new project

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, Nov 20, 2007.

?

Another question: Posi or non-posi?

Poll closed Aug 18, 2021.
  1. Posi for two-wheel traction

    100.0%
  2. No Posi for better handling in the corners.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The new welder is very nice. I have used it on this project to mostly fill some pin holes left from my first attempts to join panels together. I am looking forward to doing all the chassis parts - mostly fabbed from 1/8" steel - as work continues.
     
  2. Keep up the good work
     
    Fabber McGee and loudbang like this.
  3. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    After struggling with this tail section for several months I made some real progress over the last week. I married the tail to the hold down flanges. I ended up cheating a little by making three pie cuts to get the sides to lay flush inside the flanges. I'll weld the pie cuts next. Before I plug welded the two together I put rustproofing on both the inside of the flanges and the outside of the tail where they join to prevent rust from developing inside the sandwich. I cleaned off the rustproofing locally before I welded each plug weld.
    For now I will continue to use Clecos to hold it on to keep the alignment precise. I still want to do a little more smoothing on the skin. Later it will be converted to period correct pan head slotted screws.
    Next comes affixing the seat back panel to the tail section. Additional structure will be placed behind the seat to hold the anchoring system for the 5-point harness.

    sr_shell_36.JPG sr_shell_35.JPG
     
    Lepus, dana barlow, cactus1 and 6 others like this.
  4. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    To mount the seat back / tail access panel I got some help from my friend Fast Freddie from Canton Ohio who himself is a legend in Legends / Dwarf racing. He provided me with a nifty magnetic zero-centered tape that is very useful for laying out symmetric curves. I used it to bend up this mounting flange which will get welded to the front cover. Here I plan to fasten it with Dzus fasteners, but they will be hidden under the upholstery. I'm thinking nine or 11 fasteners will be needed. The restraint anchoring system will be housed out of sight behind this panel.

    Buck headrest 30.JPG Buck headrest 31.JPG Buck headrest 32.JPG Buck headrest 33.JPG Buck headrest 34.JPG
    Buck headrest 35.JPG
     
  5. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I clamped the seat back to a board using several pony clamps to noodge it into place. Before welding in the flange I formed the mounting holes for Dzus fasteners which will be hidden by the overlapping flap of the upholstery. I made a few spacer tabs to maintain the root opening, then tacked the mounting flange into place. I plan to go back and TIG the two pieces together, but the temperature was 100*F in the shop, so that is enough for today.

    seat back 03.JPG seat back 04.JPG seat back 05.JPG seat back 06.JPG seat back 07.JPG seat back 08.JPG
     
  6. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Before I affix the seat back to the tail section I want to put in an opening for the shoulder harness. But in order to prevent abrasion of the belts on the tin I will put a rolled radius in the opening. I made up a wire form to wrap the tin around.

    seat back 4 - harness tube.JPG seat back 3 - harness tube.jpg
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  7. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    ring installed

    seat back 5 - harness tube.JPG seat back 6 - harness tube.JPG

    In retrospect it would have been a lot easier to install this ring before installing the sides as I could have rolled the lip with a bead roller instead of having to hammer it in.
     
  8. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    With the help of my spouse I crawled up inside of the tail section (many times!) to align the seat back to the tail and while she held everything in place. I drilled out temporary holes from the inside and she inserted bolts to hold everything aligned from the outside. I saw slit a 1 x 2 to slip over the bottom edge so I could jack the panel snugly against the tail. Eventually the bolts are to be replaced with Dzus fasteners which in turn will be concealed under the upholstery flap. So far, so good. The two lower holes are yet to be drilled. I marked the inside edge so I know where to mount the restraint anchor tubing. But first I'll mount the gas tank to see how much room there is left for the restraint hoop.

    seat back 7 - harness tube.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  9. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    As long as I'm working near the tail I think I'll do something about the temporary exhaust pipe support. I fabbed one up of steel tubing, turned a bung, and rolled a saddle to hold the 4" pipe. I made a little "paisley" anchor plate of 3/16" to steady it. sr_082.JPG sr_083.JPG sr_084.JPG
     
  10. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The valve cover for the crossflow head had an oil fill cap on a tall standpipe at the front of the cover. It was going to interfere with hood clearance. I removed it and relocated amidships at the lowest point of the cover. Now I will have enough room to mount the DOHC cover.
    XFLO 27.JPG
    XFLO 28.JPG XFLO 29.JPG XFLO 30.JPG

    Progress for the last few days:

    XFLO 31.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
  11. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    JOYFLEA, Shadow Creek and loudbang like this.
  12. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I had a couple of hours last Friday before we went racing for the weekend so I decided to do a couple of fab jobs. I was going to weld the conical gussets to the bottom of the roll bar mounting sockets. I had one in my hand before I went inside to take a phone call. Do you think I could find it after the call? Nooo...
    I looked for it for the better part of two hours until it was time to go.
    This morning I decided screw it, and I just made a new one (1 hr, 20 minutes). These gussets will distribute the roll bar loading along the entire width of the frame rail. I've seen some pretty sketchy roll bar mounts. The roundy round techies must not be nearly as picky as the NHRA drag techies where mounting points, tube size, welding technique, etc. is precisely regulated. Any way, it should hold securely. Then I made brackets for the inside harness hoop. The triangular top to these tabs is not purely for aesthetics but it will distribute the forces gradually along the hoop, reducing the chance of breakage.

    roll bar 01.JPG seat back 3 - harness tube 6.JPG

    [PS: Qualified the Last Logghe Altered #1 on Saturday. Lost in the finals.
    Sunday lost first round in my avatar S/P car. Bought back in for the second round. Lost again. Hero-to-Zero in nuttin' flat.]
     
  13. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,127

    loudbang
    Member


    Hey making it to the finals is nothing to sneeze it. :)
     
    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER likes this.
  14. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    loudbang likes this.
  15. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I installed the main 5-point restraint hoop and the roll bar main hoop.

    roll bar 03.JPG roll bar 04.JPG roll bar 05.JPG
    When I weld in receptacles to hold roll bars I have found it useful to wrap tape around the roll bar so that it is a very snug fit inside the mounting receptacles. That way if the receptacle cup wants to shift or distort during welding the tape acts to hold the pipe firmly centered in the middle of it so dis-assembly and re-installation is easier once I remove the tape.




    seat back 3 - harness tube 7.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
    loudbang likes this.
  16. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,127

    loudbang
    Member

  17. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Not exactly.
    NHRA mandates that no part of the car may extend more than 30" in front of the spindle and it must be rigidly mounted and at least 3" above the pavement. But they do not dictate the front spring rate.
    Ergo, if I were to strictly conform to the NHRA rules but design my own torsion front spring system that allows the air pressure to deflect the car below 3" going through the lights it is just possible the wing (ahem..."front bumper") will be deflected downward enough to trip the finish line beams, effectively shortening my side of the track by a couple of feet.

    Many Pro Stock teams discovered this before me. I used it on my Logghe car too

    I built that racer in my garage - chassis and body - so I was able to tailor each piece. For example, I used 2.47:1 rear end gears to insure that car would hook in a mudslide - never spin the tires. I put a manually operated stop light switch button on the top of the hand brake so I can hit the stop lights without hitting the brake; hit the brakes without hitting the stop light; or hit both the brakes and the stoplight switch. I did some stuff perfectly legal but I had not seen on any other car. Some stuff I'm not ready to reveal. I also put all necessary street equipment - turn signals, horn, etc - if I had a windshield with rear view mirror I could have driven it to the track.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
    JOYFLEA and loudbang like this.
  18. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Back to the champ car.
    I welded on the mounting tabs to the harness restraint bar including the belt locator at the top of the hoop, with a pin to secure their location.

    seat back 3 - harness tube 8.JPG seat back 3 - harness tube 9.JPG
     
    loudbang likes this.
  19. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Can somebody tell me if vintage racing organizations stipulate the location of the diagonal triangulating struts for the roll bar and restraint hoop(s)? Specifically, how high up on the main hoop they are to be placed? Also, tube diameter and fastening tabs? I was planning on using a clevis in double shear for the restraint hoop in 7/8" diameter. Main hoop TBD...
     
    loudbang likes this.
  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    OOPS!
    I goofed.
    I made a mistake.
    The roll bar interferes with the exhaust pipe. By about an inch.

    So I made up an offset saddle mount, cut and welded it back together so the roll bar and exhaust pipe can coexist. roll bar 06.JPG roll bar 07.JPG

    I see the number of views for this build has surpassed 100,000. Thanks to all who have continued to follow this build all these years. Your support helps motivate me. Hang with me - we'll see it run.
     
  21. OneRustedDodge
    Joined: Jan 28, 2007
    Posts: 184

    OneRustedDodge
    Member

    This build rules. Keep it up
     
    loudbang likes this.
  22. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Diag braces for the restraint bar...

    seat back 3 - harness tube 10.JPG
     
    loudbang likes this.
  23. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I made a detour today. I mounted some deep dish Moon discs to the '46 push truck. I drilled and tapped the rim and installed stainless 10-32 studs so I can hold the discs on with stainless acorn nuts. That way I can remove them easily if need be, like for adding air.


    USAC 03.JPG USAC 04.JPG
     
    Lepus, loudbang and 64 DODGE 440 like this.
  24. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,127

    loudbang
    Member

    Good move, looks perfect now. :)
     
  25. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The harness restraint mounting bar struts are spotted in. I spaced them outward in hopes the 8-gallon fuel cell I have will fit but I have my doubts; its hard to say without the bustle in place. Maybe turned sideways, but the fuel pickup location would be a bit wonky. I better look for a smaller (5-gal?) tank. Next I need roll bar diag struts. I can't decide how they should be mounted to the frame so the bar can be removed.

    seat back 3 - harness tube 11.JPG seat back 3 - harness tube 12.JPG seat back 3 - harness tube 13.JPG
     
    loudbang likes this.
  26. Awesome work, you got skills!
     
  27. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thank you FinnishFireball.
    Little progress today - I had to go into town for more argon shielding gas.
    I did study some old cars and chose a mounting technique for the roll bar diags and made up the patterns in wood. Tomorrow I make them in steel.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  28. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Roll bar diag mounts:
    roll bar 08.JPG

    I copied a design I liked from older cars. It looks safe to me (I saw some attachments that sure didn't).
    I like curved surfaces. It looks artsy to me; almost evokes an aeronautical vibe to things. I made these brackets with curved edges. It would have been easier to chop them off a piece of flat bar stock.
    roll bar 09.JPG


    There are two weld nuts inside the rear of the frame for mounting these. And the rear crash bars.
    roll bar 10.JPG


    The diags get fish-mouthed and welded securely on both ends. This time I'll check to be sure they clear the exhaust pipe.
    roll bar 11.JPG

    I think a couple of round wooden discs turned down to fit inside the skived tube ends will precisely align them to the mounting plates.
     
    dana barlow and loudbang like this.
  29. Flyer , you’ve been busy, every thing looks great .
     
    loudbang likes this.
  30. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,262

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thank you JOYFLEA.

    I installed the roll bar re-enforcing diagonals. I finish welded the harness hoop.
    seat back 3 - harness tube 14.JPG
    Once the roll bar gets finish welded the rear of the chassis'structure is effectively complete. I can begin to move forward into the driver seating area to lay all that out as ergonomically as possible.
    roll bar 13.JPG roll bar 14.JPG roll bar 15.JPG

    One near OOPS was the fact that the roll bar attachment points just barely clear my trailer ramps when the ramps are in the stowed upright position. I will have to reposition the ramp locking arms so they don't interfere, but that is a minor rework.
    The blue spacers sandwiched between the frame rail and roll bar are there to simulate the mounting pads for the rear crash bars which will attach through the same holes and will be fabbed up later.
     
    loudbang and SR100 like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.