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Hot Rods 1930 Model A highboy build journal

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by wex65, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    Decided to try and document my first build of a hot rod, an old school '30 fenderless highboy.

    First, a bit about me. I moved to the US from the UK 6-7 years ago and although I have owned several older cars I have never 'built' one. This is a major undertaking for me. I did own a steel '29 highboy a few years back but apart from pulling the firewall to checkerboard it (very proud of that, first time I ever picked up a spray gun) switching engines is about as large a job as I have done. To prepare I had a workshop put up last fall, 28*36 with 14 foot ceilings. Popped a 2-post lift in which I figured would make life easy (I was right!) and generally got my tool kit up to snuff, filling in the blanks and getting a few missing items. You can never have enough 1/2" and 9/16" wrenches it seems, they seem to go missing with an amazing regularity. At least for me. So, ready to go...

    About the car, I personally prefer old school, no billet, no massive wheels. Nothing wrong with those, it just isn't what I am after. I have my heart set on an old school highboy with finned drum brakes and a three deuce setup. I was initially thinking of going with a flathead or Y block but as I have a '55 322 nailhead on the workshop floor (I parted a Roadmaster out after grabbing a bunch of parts for my '55 Special) I have decided to go with that. It seems that many rods back 'in the day' had nailheads so I don't feel too bad about going the non-Ford route for the engine. I am NOT going for a show winner OR a rat rod. Just a nice, solid highboy that can be driven. People seem to think every rod MUST cost a fortune to build right. Whilst I agree it cant be done for peanuts I wont be putting a high dollar interior or paint job on this (it will have both, just not show winner) so am trying to get it finished for 20k'ish.

    Please note that I am posting to this build journal pretty much as it happens so if you are following along you will need patience. I wont be suddenly posting 6 months of work in one day. The tear down started just two weeks ago, just before Christmas 2012.

    To begin...I bought a VERY clean, original 1930 Model A back in November and just started to tear it down. The thing that surprised me was the condition everything was in, no rust and the fenders and body panels original for the main part. I decided (as I am sure most do) to try to offset some of the cost I would see on the new parts by listing the original stuff on eBay and was pretty surprised at what they brought. Front fenders alone went for $1480(!), engine/gearbox another $2,000. The car cost me $8,000 and after selling all fenders, running boards, horn, engine, hood and bumpers I have just slightly more then $5k back already. Still have the axles so am sure they will contribute a little more to the kitty. Alas I now start spending... picked up a nice Offenhauser three deuce setup and a set of rebuilt Stromberg 97s, 45 fin Buick drums and 1940 hubs/plates etc.

    I am headed to Posies this afternoon to pick up the dropped axle, springs, spindles, shock kit, steering rods and a few other bits. Hoping to get to work on these this weekend.

    So, the body/chassis as of now has cost me $2800. I don't know how typical this is but I can tell you it was a pleasant surprise...I was expecting twice this or more.

    Oh, I also grabbed a set of wheels from Vintique wheels (15x 6 and 15 x 7) their series 14 Gennies and center caps. The original wheels finish on eBay today so I needed something to replace them. I will put cheapest tires I can on them for now untitl the build is complete. I will decide on whether to retain these wheels with new tires closer to the end.

    Pictures to follow to show car as I bought it and as it sits now minus fenders, radiator and engine. Hopefully will post more this weekend with some front end work done.

    I hope this thread is useful to some, especially those embarking on the same road, building a rod without ever having done so before and worried it might be too much.

    For those far more experienced than I, I guarantee I will screw up MANY things along the way. I will try to keep my embarrassment to a minimum but for me this is about the journey as much as the end product.

    Enjoy...

    Paul
     

    Attached Files:

  2. v8paul
    Joined: Dec 17, 2008
    Posts: 182

    v8paul
    Member
    from england

    Lucky bastard, looks like you are living in my dream !
    Good luck with the build... subscribed.
     
  3. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 331

    Bluedot
    Member

    Ya done good with that purchase and selling parts. I bought just a bare '30 coupe body for $4K, and it was/is not nearly as good condition as yours. Spent too much and made a bunch of extra work for myself. Duh... You definitely made a better decision.
    Will subscribe to your thread, and BTW, while you forewarned us up front that you will screw up many things along the way, you have a long long way to go to catch up to my mistakes. My coupe is aptly named Nemesis - it seems to hate me, in spite of all the work and $ I've given it. I'd planned on a budget far short of your $20K, but am getting ever closer to that number.
    I look fwd to lots of pix on your progress.
     
  4. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    v8paul, checked out your website. See you went to an event in Surrey in October, my old stomping ground. Grew up in Surbiton/Chessington.

    Have to admit I feel kinda nostalgic when I see UK shows... will be back in the summer and will try to get to one or two.

    Paul
     

  5. kingrollo
    Joined: May 24, 2008
    Posts: 46

    kingrollo
    Member

    Paul,
    I'm subscribed! Smart move starting with a nice body (I didn't!). I look forward to this build.
    Mike
     
  6. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 6,079

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    Looks like your on your way with a good body and a good plan.. Have fun with it...
     
  7. I SMELL SMOKE
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 1,527

    I SMELL SMOKE
    Member

    looking foward to watching this build.you got a deal on the car! good luck and have fun
     
  8. lawman
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,665

    lawman
    Member

    You have a very nice start. Keep posting !!!
     
  9. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    Next update, and an apology as I didnt realize the first was so wordy! Could be the start of a trend...

    As I go through this I will try to post prices where possible to give those starting out an idea as what to expect. It will doubtless also result in my being told I completely overpaid for things! ;-)

    Anyway, I have a '55 Buick Special fitted with a 264 nailhead. The car is just about 99% original but grabbed a '55 Roadmaster (with the larger 322) for little money and decided to steal the engine from it for the Special. Once I bought the Model A and realized that nailheads are a perfectly acceptable engine I scrapped that plan and decided to use the 322 in the rod. the Special will have to make do with the 264...

    I looked online and found a guy experienced in three deuce setups. He is currently rebuilding/supplying a complete set of 97s with all new parts (pumps, gaskets, stainless screws. End carbs converted to dump only, taking idle circuit out...blah blah blah). Paid $800, I suspect this is a little steep but there you go. He is including new studs for the NOS Offenhauser 3-deuce intake I found on eBay ($375). Had the heads off to the local machine shop and had them redo the valves/seats and surface the heads ($230).

    New gasket set from Felpro and I am ready to put it back together...maybe in a couple of week sonce I decide on colors etc.

    Note the engine had GREAT compression on all but one cylinder which, thanks to a leak-down test, was an exhaust valve. Presence of new'ish gaskets on the engine made me decide not to screw with the bottom end as it appears the engine had been reworked in the last couple of years. I simply stuck it on a stand and went to town cleaning it. Will get the heads and oil-pan back on and paint it.

    Not ideal but this will also be the engine I use to mock things up against the frame too.

    Decided to go with 1940s Ford brakes and got a set of backplates, hubs and all hardware (basically everything except spindles) for $275. They are on the way and this is why I had to stop where I did this weekend.

    So, this past weekend I got the original front end off the car and replaced it with new parts collected Friday from Posies. Photos below show three pieces of progress; removal of steering column/wheel and front axle etc, removal of body from frame and installation of the new axle/springs. I will be cleaning everything, just getting everything mocked up to make sure everything fits etc.

    You will see I show a measurement of frame height on original front end/wheels. I will compare once the new setup is in place to see just how much drop I get out of the axle and 'low option' Posies springs.

    Removal of the front end was maybe 45 mins work, effectively just the spring shackles. Equally, removal of the body from the frame took maybe half an hour as I had already gotten everything that connected them out of the way except the steering column/wheel. Installation of the new springs/axle took 20 mins or so, super simple. I suspect the trickier work commences once the backing plates/hubs and finned drums arrive this coming week...

    Oh, and for the eagle eyed amongst you, I also switched to my mule wheels/tires. Managed to get the tires for $50 from the local tire place.

    Next steps, front brakes. Hopefully in the next week or so. Oh, and grabbed a vintage Arvin heater on eBay this morning. I think it will add to the interior and I know the wife will appreciate it!

    Paul
     

    Attached Files:

  10. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    Couple of photos that didn't make the cut on the prior post...
     

    Attached Files:

  11. This is great, I subscribed so I can follow your progress. Nice job so far.
     
  12. I'm with Ric,,I subscribed also. HRP
     
  13. v8paul
    Joined: Dec 17, 2008
    Posts: 182

    v8paul
    Member
    from england

    I'm in East Sussex, not too far from Surrey. As you know, cost of gas here and a hemi with six holley's soon gets expensive to go anywhere !
    Good fun on the SSR Picnic glad you enjoyed the pics on the website, though why you'd want to come back i don't know...ha haa !!!

    I'm enjoying your posts, dead envious ! If i had a garage like that i'd never come out.

    Keep it coming
     
  14. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    Today didn't quite go as planned. Intended to pop out to the workshop this afternoon and clean it up form the weekend's work. Instead, somehow I got sidetracked into looking for a local place to sandblast the frame. Rang them and they basically said, 'come on over, we can do it now!', so I did.

    Popped the rear spring shackle off and and few assorted brackets and managed to manhandle it into the pickup bed. I am sure it is easier with two people but c'est la vie...

    Picked it up after lunch, total cost was $75 for one hour's blasting. Seems more than reasonable. Expected twice that.

    It has some 'issues' but from what other HAMBers are saying in the main forum it is a decent frame and subject to some repairs will be fine.

    Ordered dimpled boxing plates (www.wolfesmetalfabrication.com/ModelADimpledboxingplates.html) which I should have here this weekend. Trying to get my head around the logical order in which to attack the frame. Seems I have several jobs to do:

    Close up unwanted holes
    Add motor mounts
    Box frame
    Repair cracks and prior 'repairs'
    Some form of X/trans crossmember

    ...and I I am sure there are 5-10 other things I don't even know about yet. How I work out which holes are unwanted is also a mystery. I am thinking I will get the car/frame/motor/trans back together and mock it all up and then pull it apart again for painting. That way I should know what is what.

    Not bad for an off day.

    Oh, and finally. Rear brake scoops arrived... rather than post ANOTHER picture I will simply link to one already on this site.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1054147&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1281482640

    Over and out!

    Paul
     

    Attached Files:

  15. rob lee
    Joined: Jul 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,331

    rob lee
    Member
    from omaha,ne

    Nice start on the build thread! Going down this same road,enjoyed the read... Rob
     
  16. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    thanks rob, appreciated..

    Forgot to include this photo. These are the dimpled boxing plates in case anyone wondered.

    Looking forward to seeing them the end of this week hopefully.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    A quick update, little (well actually none...) building but accumulating required parts.

    Ford brakes/backing plates etc should be with me this weekend.

    Buick drums (fronts and rears) arrived last week and are in super condition. Will need to think a little about mounting the rears to the axle I bought.

    Speaking of which, the axle is a '77 Bronco heavy duty 9 inch with large bearings. From what I read this makes it suitable for adding Buick backing plates to it. 58 inches from surface mounting to surface mounting.

    The tripower setup ($800) is looking great, cant wait to bolt the engine together. Need to think a little now on air filters...

    Managed to get a Cragar 309 trans adapter ($120) which allows me to bolt the gearbox ($225) I also bought to the nailhead.

    It is coming together. Didn't realize I would spend so much time researching what works with what and what route to take.

    Sold the steering column, front and read axles from the original A bringing my total sold on the $8k purchase to almost $7k. Body and frame cost me a grand total of $1k, happy camper.

    Starting to rethink whether I need to insert prices on everything. I started out thinking it would help newbies like me but will think on it a little more before I decide whether to continue it.

    Heading to the sun this weekend but will hope to get back on the build from next weekend.

    Bought several of Ron Covell's metal working DVDs and managed to convert them this morning to run in my iPad so guess what I will be watching on the plane.

    Paul
     

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  18. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 331

    Bluedot
    Member

    Great build, Wex. One caveat though RE that Bronco rear end. I too am building a highboy A coupe with a 9" rear. I'd heard about Broncos, but couldn't find any, so we had to narrow a bigger one (Torino). I wrestled long and hard with what width I wanted to end up with - the slightly tapered shape of the rear quarters made it difficult to decide. I researched here on the HAMB for what width guys recommended, and the number that kept coming up was 56" housing flange to housing flange. I finally went to 55.5", and actually wish I'd done 54.5" or maybe even 54". It really comes down to the backspace of the wheels and the tires you will use, and of course the look you want tio end up with.
    I'm certainly not saying 58" won't work for you - it may be fine. I'm only suggesting that you measure, measure, measure before you start welding on the Bronco axle. Do overs on rear ends suck.
     
  19. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    Thanks for the input re the rear end, appreciated. I will be running a fenderless highboy and so I 'think' I am OK. I will do some more research/measuring.

    Paul
     
  20. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 331

    Bluedot
    Member

    Mine's fenderless too - I just wanted the tires tucked in as far as I could without risking rubbing on the body when the axle is higher on one side than the other - like when angling over a speed bump. That would make the wheel/tire swing in a just little bit of an arc (top comes inboard just a little), and that's hard to visualize or calculate. That all seems like I over-complicated it (I'm good at that), but I missed the mark anyway.
    I may be changing wheels soon to a pair with more backspace, which will solve my problem.
     
  21. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

  22. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 331

    Bluedot
    Member

    Here are a couple of pix of what 55.5" ended up looking like on my project. Could have been tucked in some more.
     

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  23. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    Can't believe me it took me this long to pick up on the fact we aren't comparing apples to apples...

    I am talking surface mounting to surface mounting, you are talking housing flange to housing flange.

    Paul

     
  24. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 331

    Bluedot
    Member

    "Surface mounting" could mean drum mounting surface (Axle flange) or backing plate mounting surface (housing flange). That confusion in terminology only added to my decision making difficulties when I was narrowing mine. Anyway, sounds like we are on the same page now. All I can add, again, is measure, measure, measure. Some guys say measure twice, cut once. I measure about 43x, cut once, and still have lots of do-overs. Some days I think I have no business working on cars...
     
  25. Fitty Toomuch
    Joined: Jun 29, 2010
    Posts: 328

    Fitty Toomuch
    Member
    from WVa

    Hey Paul, welcome to the states and Kearneysville, where I`m also located. Good luck with the build.
     
  26. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

    Thanks fitty. Warm weather like this and i might find myself in the workshop this afternoon!

    '32 grill out for delivery. I see myself starting to mock things up in the next week or two...

    Got to sort myself out a fabrication table/surface to stop the frame from warping whilst being boxed....
     
  27. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,921

    Fenders
    Member

    That's why the S10/S15 2 wheel drive axle is getting popular... perfect width on a Model A.
    But Chev bolt pattern of course.....
     
  28. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 6,079

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    Here's an S10 rear with 1" adapters to go from 4 3/4" to 5 1/2" bolt pattern....
     

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  29. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,921

    Fenders
    Member

    On the other hand if you are using the Speedway disc setup with chev pattern on the front you are all set to run Chev pattern wheels all around..
     
  30. chopt top kid
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 959

    chopt top kid
    Member

    I've got an early Bronco 9" on my coupe. WMS to WMS is 58"...
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013

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