Thought i'd dig up some pics for ya to help. Since we don't really have many Model A's left over here to be found.. let alone complete Roadster bodies we either import them.. or use the somewhat readily available still open car cowls, and use Brookville rear quarters. I started with a cowl, and a door.. and bought all the Roadster stuff from Brookville and found another door and eventually got myself a full body. First up, I assembled my subrails at my old work on a big flat table. The one mistake i made here, is that the cowl wasn't assembled with it. I had to end up pinching the front to make the rails fit the cowl. But anyway, if you buy the new bits you'll be able to assemble it like this. This picture shows them upside down for underneath welding.. but you get the idea. Just set them up so that they are diagonally square (use a measuring tape and measure from one corner to opposite sides opposite corner.. and make sure that, with the other side are the same..). You'll want to slip the subrails into the cowl until the flat front of the subrails goes all the way in, except for the last 10mm before it rises up. Make note of that measurement. Once you have the cowl and subrails done.. you can put the quarters on. Measure your door gap from the A pillar of the cowl, to the B pillar of the quarters - the inside to inside measurement. Once you've got the subrails folded up under the subrails with the brackets and do dads holding it on you'll be able to get all the inner top and bottom panels and the HD rear crossmember in. Hope this all helps man.. i was about 22 when i assembled my roadster body. It helps being a boilermaker / welder by trade though.. But i'm sure you can do it. What i started with.. Gettin the subrails squared up. I'd also recommend a brace like this behind your seat, it stiffened the roadsters body substantially. I know coupes have a roof to hold them together but it all helps. Just take your time with it, make sure everything is square.. do nice work and you'll get there! Heres what mine looks like now.. a coupe years after getting the body together. Use it as inspiration! They do take a ton of time though haha.
Thanks a ton for the advise. Hopefully I will see mike today and he will give me some direction. Until then, watch the following for even better analysis!
I'm in the reverse-eye T-spring camp here. That can get you much lower with no cutting on the frame and no welding. I have a simple, crude spring spreader that I built. I'll let you borrow it when it comes time, or you can buy one for about $100. Mine isn't set up for a reverse eye so buying one that is may be your best bet. Since you're so pinched up for space, you may want to put the whole rig up on jack stands (I suggest 6) and slide plywood between the body and frame to make yourself a table to work on like I showed you, just cut out holes for the rear xmember and transmission. If you're careful and precise about it, you can drill through the factory holes in the top of the frame and bolt the wood down, which would provide you with the reference points needed to align your subframe. This would save you space and time over fabbing a body cart. Draw it up to fit between And this Take your own measurements before you cut, but this should be enough to get your cutting pattern started. Spring for the $50 3/4" oak plywood.
Did my reverse eye rear spring in my car by myself w s pair of c clamps and all thread. Worked out well. Was a pain to stretch the new main leaf by itself by myself but I finally got it on then reassembled the pack and drew it together w all thread and c clamps before putting new centering bolt in it
I will take still pictures tomorrow, but watch the video to get a sense and tell me your thought on the frame. It is pretty well pitted and I don't know if I should just get a new one or something. Anywho, take a look...
It doesn't look bad, I've seen worse. You'll really need to take detailed close up pictures of your areas of concern. But IMO what the level of pitting looks like in the video doesn't scream "replace me" or anything. Though I now agree with the boxing plate plan, just to be on the safe side. You should get your stance (suspension, wheel & tire size) figured out/set up and that body subframed and floored up before you spend money on boxing. Go for the tangible, visible results first, then get into the other stuff.
You have gotten lots of good advise here already. This is build-able but it's a lot to take on for a first timer. Here's some more dimensions (body mount holes) for you to help with the sub rails. That cart you liked is quite similar to a frame made out of 1 1/2" square tubing. I've outlined the part in red with the dimensions you need. Lines drawn on a piece of plywood as Patmanta suggested would also work. As said, start here (sub-rails). If you can't get past this part, you're wasting your time and money on everything else. That assembly you linked to on eBay doesn't have the rear piece with it (another 200.00+) nor the extensions that go on the front of the sub-rails for the floorboards and cowl to mount to (another 250.00+).
I really like what you guys are saying, and I like that kind of work. But I was talking to mike, and was thinking. I believe what I really need to do right now, before I get that stuff going, is that I need to dissassemble the body, and take that off. It needs to happen sooner or later, so doing it now would be good. I already took off quire a few bolts holding the driver side panel onto the roof panel, but a couple are legitimately impossible to grind off, as it is in a corner. I will need to figure out a way to get that done though. I will get pictures later, but I think taking off the body is something I should do right now, instead of putting a bunch of money into a subrails and then taking it apart...
Get the paperwork straightened out first. There are several reasons for this. First the sooner you do the paperwork the closer you are to the seller in case there are problems. Second plan on possibly losing anything you might put into the car before the paperwork is done. Third a lot of states tax cars when they are registered and it is worth a lot less for tax purposes in its present condition. Finally check out insurance without fenders. At your age insurance for a fenderless car might be difficult to find at a reasonable rate. Good luck with your project, keep posting (with a lot of photos). Charlie Stephens
The fenders look original. There is a slight difference in the 1930-31 fenders involving the length of the crease but I can't see enough to tell if that is what you are looking at. The speedometer is early 1930. The late 1930 and 1931 had a round speedometer. Note that the contour of the fuel tank matches the instrument panel (small difference, hard to see). Charlie Stephens
X 2 on this advice. As a novice you'll soon be in 'way over your head if you try to attack your rebuild in a haphazard manner. Focus your efforts on getting the body off the frame and joined to the new complete high quality full subrails such as Brookville so that the body itself is both solid and square. Then you can properly fit the body back onto the frame and attend to the lesser issues.
I would suggest that once you get the body off, load it up in your pickup and get it blasted and then apply OSPHO to the freshly blasted surfaces for protection. Having a 'clean' surface to work with is very important and reveals all areas that need repairs and replaced. Then, after you remove the drivetrain from the chassis, take it to be blasted. If we lived in the same town I would be glad to help you. I wish you the best. Glenn
I was wondering about blasting the body. I know that I should tell the goofs not to use black beauty, but attacking the body with my wire wheel will be a bad idea? I was just thinking about saving a little cash, but if it won't work, just tell me cause I was just thinking... Have a final tomorrow morning, so need to study a bit. Didn't get a lot done today but did remove the passenger front fender. Also took a couple body bolts off as well as the driver side rear glass. Hopefully will get more done late tomorrow/ Sunday.
It looks as if your body will be quite fragile due to the loss of structural strength of the subrails and the wood, so I'd suggest you install bracing and do the subrails before you sandblast. This is purely a practical matter in that the body will be transported, manipulated and inverted during the blasting process, each step increasing the risk of damage if it's not held together firmly with tubular bracing and the subrail system. If the body gets tweaked it'll be a whole lot more difficult to un-tweak than if it was braced and kept straight in the first place. Your other option would be to disassemble the body into individual panels, repair them individually and then reassemble them using new subrails. There's a lot more missing than was apparent at first. You might even consider locating replacement panels for the rear quarters rather than trying to repair what you've got. One thing is for certain, you'll be learning a lot of new skills as your car goes back together.
Ben, I would ask around to the Hot Rod guys in your area, or start a thread on here "Help needed in the Chelmsford Ma. area" and ask for suggestions on getting blasting done in your area. Doing it with a wire wheel will take a very long time and several wire wheels (hopefully you have a Full-Face-Clear-Shield to wear) and you still will not be able to get to all of the areas you will want to. Glenn
Yes, you must take the body off to fix the sub rails. I'm pretty sure all who have replied assumed you would do that. X3 on getting local advice. I would also wait on the blasting till the body it firmed up. Those panels can't take much abuse without any structure.
If that were mine, i would strip it down to individual panels, have them blasted and then put some primer on them to stop them rusting. Then do your rust repairs to each panel individually, followed by picking up a set of full length subrails from Brookville and starting from the bottom up. There is plenty of pages around showing the assembly of a Model A's body.
I would be concerned with the strength of the frame with that much rust. After you go through the dance with DMV ( I am sure there is no serial number left on that frame if the rest is as bad as the photos) I would look for a new frame. Charlie Stephens
That little pipe probably ran vacuum to a windshield wiper motor. You could, in theory, get a set of Model A rails loose, flip them around inside, cut them and your frame so they match, and box that way. I've never seen it done, but it could be done.
Looks like the rails are pretty well shot, Ben. In your video you can see daylight showing through the rust holes all along the passenger side. The good news is that solid, straight Model A frames are quite common and affordable. Might be better to spend you time looking for a good one rather than trying to repair the frame you've got. With any luck a fellow HAMBer in your area has an extra frame and will contact you and offer to sell it at a reasonable price. Keep posting!
Lookin' Good my friend! You are doing great with the disassembly work- just think ahead to all those NEW nuts and bolts you get to use later! Stay in touch- PM sent---Mike
Not as large of an update for today. Finally get a good solid look at the frame. I don't think it is complete trash, but it sure does need some help. Tell me what my next steps should be. I am definitely taking the radiator off tomorrow, but then should I tackle the motor? Give me some advice!
It could be worse my subrails on my first build were gone from the doors back and the bottom of the from the doors back was rusted gone between 4 and 6 inches up and not to mention all the bullet holes some ass put through it before and after. Someone did a shitty chop i had to fix that and the rear panel and drive panel was shot to hell just as bad ive soent the last 5 years and barely drove it for the first time 3 weeks ago Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I grew up in the northeast and many of the cars we'd find were heartbreakingly similar to yours, Ben. Though a few did get repaired and eventually saw the road as finished rods, the majority were set aside for use as parts cars for more easily restored candidates. In your case, even if you decide to build a GOW JOB with the stock 'banger and mechanical brakes from the car you've already got, you'll still need a solid frame...which yours doesn't seem to be. You've asked for advice as to what your next step should be. In my opinion, locating and obtaining a solid and straight frame would be the very next logical step. Once you've got a good frame you can begin to refurbish and transfer the usable parts from your current frame to the new one. Until then you're pretty much stuck with a pile of parts.
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