This will serve as my introduction and hopefully a good place to ask questions and post pictures as I progress. This is my first Pre-War car. I have owned and/or restored quite a few newer vintage cars back to 1950's era. Including some ground up rebuilds. So, that part of this doesn't intimidate me. But, this car has a lot of things that are foreign to me. I decided I wanted a mid 20's to mid 30's car. No preference to model. After a lot of searching and rejecting possibilities I found the 1928 National and started researching what I was getting into before I went to inspect it. I went into it with no expectations whatsoever and after looking a the car it is mostly there, in decent shape with no rust out and the wood is not a complete basket case. I had no carb on it it, a pile of misc parts in the back seat and the rear roof off and in the car. The widow I bought it from knew absolutely nothing about the car. She even thought it was a 1929. But, as I said, I had no particular model in mind. So, that wasn't a deal breaker. So, I made an offer and bought it. I am plenty happy with what I paid and even after I found a couple of other issues as you always do when you bring a car home, it's all good. About the car. I have spent a couple of evenings just going over the car and digging through the receipt folder I got with the car. So far this is what I think. It is an amateur restoration from some time in the 80's I am guessing. It's been kept inside since then I believe. It looks like someone had decided it needed some work and started unnailing the roof. Thus the rear top being off. The wood needs some repair. That actually doesn't bother me in the least. I have been a cabinet builder/millworker my entire life and have access to plenty of Ash, so that's just my time to rebuild all of that. The doors will have to be completely rebuilt, they are complete but very soft on the tops and one is actually rotted away on the top bar. As far as I can figure on the mechanics, it was probably a running/driving car and then maybe sat and then was sold to the owner I got it from around 2007/8. All the brakes had been rebuilt, lots of new parts and receipts to back it up prior to that. Other misc maintenance items done. That's where the problems must have set in. What I have found is a rigged up ignition switch, a fuel line running from the back of the car with an electric fuel pump. I am going to assume they couldn't get it cranked and started monkeying around with it. The carb is gone, which makes me suspect it was taken off and likely crumbled apart if someone not familiar with old carbs tried working on it. Thus it being missing. The rigged ignition switch doesn't actually energize the ignition, so I also suspect they were fighting a losing battle. It is hooked up the starter and I suppose if a person didn't understand vehicle ignitions they might believe turning the starter was going to start the car. The worst thing I have found is they also left water in the block with no antifreeze and I have a 3" crack in the water jacket on the back driver side of the engine. So, now some questions. I am torn about the engine. It is an original April 1928 engine. But, I am faced with either tearing it down and having the block repaired, finding a new block and rebuilding, or doing an engine swap to a different engine. My issue is since I don't have a carb, and the carbs are very expensive, I am gambling on an engine I am not even certain runs. My original plan before I found the crack was to get a carb, either an original or a different replacement and at least get the engine running in the shop and see what I was dealing with. I have no intention of doing a ground up 100 point restoration, so I am not married to having an original engine and am having trouble deciding how much money and time I want to sink into a 92 year old 35HP engine with Babbitt bearings. So, I find myself with an interesting dilemma. I am now considering a hot rod project where I wasn't necessarily before. It doesn't seem there is a wrong answer with these cars as far as what to do with them. I might be interested in going a little nuts, but I am really having trouble finding definite answers on several questions. How much HP will an original excellent condition frame take? What will fit between the frame rails. V-8, nice I6? Manual or automatic trans? What suspension is a somewhat bolt on finding used parts? Not interested in forking over the cash for a entirely new built front and rear end. Seems to take the fun out of it and a lot of cash from me. So, anyway, that's me, thanks for all the info the board provides. I am really active on several other boards for some of my other stupid vehicle hobbies. So, I always appreciate the sheer amount of time and effort that goes into putting all the collective knowledge out there. And, because all threads are useless without pictures...........
Kris......very nice looking Chevrolet. You have lots of us beaten already.......you are a millworker and cabinet maker......great resume for a 1928 Chevrolet owner. You are asking all the right questions and I hope you get lots of answers and ideas. I don't think you mentioned how you intend to use it ......or just simply have it, look at it and enjoy it. That would be a big factor in what updates if any that you do. Over the last several years, I became interested in the 1928 ohv Chev. 4cyl. stuff after reading the book "Outlaw Sprint Car Racer" about John Gerber from Iowa. I have scrounged farm sales and ended up with several engine projects and even a "factory" farm power unit with a belt pulley drive coming off the transmission. I also picked up a 1928 coupe rolling chassis, engine etc. My learning curve is steep, but I hope to have one of the engines running on a stand this next summer. As to possible engine swaps......I am also kinda partial to the Chev II 153 cu.in. 4cyls from the 1962-70 era. I also have several of them from my dirt track midget days. If you do decide to do that swap, I would think you could use that engine with a variety of manual or even automatic trans. There are quite a few folks on here with experience with your original engine and the newer 4cyl. that have done both updates to the and swaps. Have fun.
Maybe cut the guy a little slack while he tries to determine whether he may want to do a traditional hot rod......by getting opinions from people who have already built tradtional hot rods.
Which ever way you go I have a couple of Ideas. There is no reason to change the suspension unless you want it to sit really low or you are going to road race it. Some of our favorite hot rods are "3 springers" so called because they have the parallel leafs in the front and usually a Ford rear "buggy" spring in the rear. This was typically done because it was an easy way to mount a Ford rear end which was more race friendly than say a Chevy. These old Chevy rear ends are weak but many other good ones will easily bolt in. Spring width is the same or near many cars with parallel springs. They are also 1 3/4" wide which was standard with several makes. Too many are too quick to Fordicate their Chevys. Newer front axles , through the mid 50s on pickups will also work. An easy way to switch to juice brakes as well. The engine and trans swap will also be easier and give a wider choice. Chevrolet anticipated having their 6 cylinder ready for '28 so they lengthened the frame. Your /28 will take an inline six with a little tweaking. There are many fours that will fit. A small block Chevy V8 will fit with a hood and so would a nail head Buick. It depends on what you decide you want it to be. I'm a 4 cylinder fan also, both old 171s like you should have and the Chevy II family. I would imagine your frame would easily handle 100 HP and probably more without boxing. Chevy frames are stouter than Fords of the same time. Your '28 has the best of the four cylinder heads as it has 2 exhaust ports. These engines can be made to run very well for what they are but the hotter you make them the shorter their life. A mild one will last a long time. As for the wood, The sheet metal on a Chevrolet is attached to a full wooden framework. It was assembled and the metal was nailed to it. It is difficult in many cases to replace or repair damaged wood without major disassembly. I'm in the beginning stage of rebuilding the wood in my '26 roadster. It is a humbling experience for someone with little wood working skills. At the advise of another old Chevy gut I just purchases this book. It has not yet arrived but I'm hoping to learn from it. Also on my build thread I'm receiving lots of help from someone doing the same thing I am. Feel free to join the discussion. Sometimes it's more of a pep talk but that's what we need sometimes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Start taking LOTS of pictures as you take things apart, Do not rely on your memory. Bag and box things and tag them. If you quit the next owner will love you for it and the car will benefit.
@Six Ball thanks for the info. That's exactly the kind of info I am looking for. I actually have seen a few on the original suspension and thought it might be a cool way to keep it as close to its roots as possible. I would like to swap to juice brakes for sure. The mechanical brakes are a cool idea, but they would make me nervous I know. I had seen where an early Chevy front would fit. There is actually a 1956 axle for sale near me and was wondering if would swap . I just wasn't sure how late of an axle would fit. I like the idea of keeping it Chevy as much as possible. I have had a few bastardized cars and it gets hard to keep up with what all you did when thinking about parts. Any suggestions for a similar type of rear axle in the Chevy family? I actually plan to disassemble the car to repair the wood. I also want to make sure all sides of the metal is epoxy primed before reassembly. The previous restoration has a terrible paint job. It's pretty slick but very much a spray and go. Nothing past the faces of anything has any new paint on it. And, believe me. I am a picture taker. it's saved me so many time after something was apart for months and I couldn't remember exactly how it went together. @tractorguy . Thanks. I don't pay any attention to that stuff on a forum. I will say it this way. If he is just misunderstanding what I wrote when I said I wasn't sure what I am going to do right this minute and am considering a hot rod. I take it in that spirit. If he in fact meant it the way it sounds, well I do not really care what anyone thinks the definition of a traditional hot rod is. I say any vintage car you modify in any way to handle better or have more power is a hot rod, and really do not care if he agrees with that. Hopefully it's just a case of the written word not conveying things sometimes.
I used a Chevy 10 bolt rear end out of a 2 wheel drive Chevy S10 in my 33 Chevy. 54" wheel to wheel mounting location. Not sure what width you need but it could be a possibility.
Awesome car! I dont know how much suspension you would like changed and i dont know how much of the brake system you want changed. I personally wouldnt bother changing over to the ford 3 spring buggy setup. Checking with sids axles, it looks your 28 chevy front axle spring center to spring center is still the same as a 47-54 chevy pickup truck axle. So if you wanted upgraded drum brakes(or even switch over to disc brakes) you could swap in that front axle and have upgraded brakes up front. As for the rear i cant quite say if your 28 is the same width as my 29 but i went with a 39 chevy truck rear axle housing, 55-59 center pumpkin and 55-59 brakes. This gave me an open drive rear end and upgraded bendix drum brakes. It required a bit of work but its what i wanted. Motorwise i had looked at a 28 roadster a while back and it seemed that a 6 would be a tight squeeze. Maybe if you want to upgrade it use a later chevy 4 banger from the 60s with a t-5 or something along those lines. The old chevys are a bit more work but well worth it in the end and dont require ford parts to get them done even though it is easier. Most of the parts ive used ive scrounged together from the street rodders that upgrade to 9 inch fords and mustang 2 front ends.
I think an I6 would be super tight as well. The 28 is 3" longer as they were ramping up to put the 6 cyl in in 1929, but that little 1929 6 isn't near as big as some of the later model 6 cylinders. I will measure up my axles tomorrow and see what the spring perch width is on them. You guys make some interesting points. I suppose the sky is the limit for the rear axle if I can sit the springs on it and it's a centered diff axle. I hadn't really thought of the small truck axles being a narrow width.
Cool car. I have a '28 4 cyl engine(not running) and extra 2 port head I'd make you a smokin deal on if you decide to go that route.
Nice car, a lot of good suggestions. I see a Washington plate on the front, assume that’s where your at. The Puyallup early bird swap meet is this weekend, good place to look for parts. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I know that it's OT, but a Toyota 4Runner/Tacoma rear will fit right in, should be close (if not perfect) on the width, and matches the bolt pattern. You wouldn't be able to use the stock torque tube, but it sounds like you might modernize a bit.
I actually had my eye on a 83 Toyota axle for another project and the small truck axle idea got me thinking about that very thing. I can't remember off hand the Toyota lug pattern on the early axle. Pretty sure it's the 6 lug back then. @31Apickup , thanks for the heads up, I might try to make it down. Yes, I am in Washington north of Seattle. I hadn't pulled those plates yet when I took those pictures. I thought it was very odd they had standard plates on the car. I couldn't think of a reason they would not have ran Collector or Horseless Carriage plates on it unless they were just not aware such a thing existed and didn't have a real helpful person at whatever licensing office they went to.
I am assuming most use an undercab mount M/C and/or booster setup on these cars. Any preferences? And why you prefer whichever one. I have never used one of the undercab setups, so want some opinions about how they line up with existing setup, how the clutch would work if using a manual transmission ect.
although newer and a different body style, the modifications to your car could be done the same as my car. build thread here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/33-chevy-3w-time-for-a-cool-change.863287/
I dig the van side look. That is cool. I am playing around with going full sheetmetal top. The roof was poorly rebuilt at some point and they very nearly made a concave roof, so I will be reshaping the entire thing using pictures I have gathered up from all over of the wood structure. Off hand I would guess they missed the high point of the roof by easily 3". It was one of those thing I kept looking at and thinking, something isn't right here. But, once I pulled the 2 metal roof sides off it became obvious. On that note, does anyone have a picture of the transition at the front corner of the roof above the visor. I am pretty certain whomever did the repairs pushed the front edge at least 3/4" too far forward. And, I am not seeing yet what finished that area once the sheetmetal was on. Seems to be a raw edge and that can't be right. In the picture the roof side piece is not connected, it's just sitting on top of the open doors
both the visor and the roof panel should have nailing tabs. like the center of the visor still has. the tabs should be offset to each panel so they can "nestle" leaving a slight gap between the panels. there should be space between the tabs to tack/staple the top material down. then the edges, and the gap between the panel, get finished/hidden by a metal moulding or wire-on welting.
Maybe I am missing a piece of roof panel it sounds like. Was there a piece across the front above the visor laying on the roof? There are tons of pictures on the internet obviously, but I haven't seen a really good close up of that area. I am planning out my wood rebuild currently and want to make damn certain I understand how the parts interact as the roof section I am inventing since the previous rebuild in that area is so poor. I ordered the Chevy specific Fisher manual. I am sure it will help. I have the general Fisher manual, but it's pretty generic overall.
Thats something i forgot to mention. I believe i used a 67 chevy chevelle drum drum master cylinder. My 29 still had mechanical brakes(chevy didnt get hydraulic brakes till 36) so what i ended up doing is building a bracket with a cantilever on it and built my own linkage to push it. I dont know how much room you have engine bay wise but if you want, measure your firewall to face of the radiator spacing. Actually measure from the recess in the firewall to the radiator face. I used a babbitt 235(think 216) in mine and had to make a minor adjustment to the firewall. If a 216 fits, the later 235/261 will fit then as they are about the same length. The thing is if one of those 6 bangers fits in it, you can use a early truck bell housing which has the mount for the brake and clutch pedals on it which saves alot of time trying to build pedal mounts. There are quite a few options out there though it just depends what you want
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/my-29-chevy-the-rajo-special.1183115/ Here is a link to my 29 build. You can see some of the things ive done so you can see. Especially the master cylinder bracket and all the parts ive use up to now. Most of the stuff is pretty simple to find as all the street rodders have 0 intention of using this stuff.
Awesome. Now that I see it, I have looked through your thread. I remember it because I am from Beaumont and was considering where your 8 hour drive north was for the Rajo head. I have been gone for about 9 years now. I remember thinking how if I was still at home I know where to find nearly any old part I want within a few days. It's a bit more of an Easter egg hunt here in the PNW not knowing a lifetime of car guys like I do there with their parts hoards. I will check out how much length I have tomorrow and see how close it is. I am still thinking engine choices here. Part of me is really really partial to V-8s. So,got to thinking about something like the 283. Not a massive amount of HP to make things difficult, but still a nice little small block. And, there are ironically 2 for sale around here currently for a few hundred bucks. One of them is 250.00 with fuelie heads. Rebuild that and I suspect it could make a really nice mild V-8.
A 283 is a good choice for a nice smooth street cruiser. I was concerned on whether the 28 radiator would cool a V8 so went with a 153 Mercruiser. With no grill, just the radiator exposed, a core that would cool would have to be custom made and probably $$$. This is a 120hp Mercruiser but they make a four banger with 180hp which is almost the same as a 2bbl 283 and it drops right into place.
I stripped the body this weekend. No real surprises found except the wood frame is complete trash and the steel panels were the only thing holding it together. It's not rotten, just cobbled together with random bits of 2X4 and whatever was at hand it looked like. Then put together with poorly installed misc bits of metal using what looks to have been a useless coffee can full of fasteners. No 2 were alike it didn't seem like. Complete pain to disassemble. The frame basically fell apart on the floor once it started coming apart. I found what I believe to be 3 pieces of the actual Fisher frame. Unfortunately what is there won't be a pattern for anything. It wasn't built to fit so much as hacked out then shims and wedges jammed in to hold it to the body. Chassis and parts went into the garage to clear out the shop for body reconstruction. After the body was off I was able to really clean the side of the engine and look into the cracks. It's toast, they continue in every direction. They were just too small to see at a casual inspection. So, to continue working on a plan of action. What's the most common thing to do with the steering? I seems without measuring that the headers of a V8 would interfere with the steering box location. I have searched a lot for pictures of what various people have done and keep coming up with pictures of IFS and other more extreme mods I am not looking to do. I really like the idea of using the drum brake axles from a slightly newer vintage Chevy as has been discussed earlier in the thread. I think it maintains the look of the vehicle which I really like. I would like most of my mods to be less obvious at a casual glance.
check out the build I posted of my car. drum brakes, original suspension, original steering box, and a v8 with a standard transmission. all without changing the look of the car.
Will do. I haven't made it all the way through your build thread yet. I must not have gotten to that part. Lot's to read there. Car looks awesome btw!
I also repaired or replaced the original wood. I also added some steel structure and "backers" to improve the original design. wood trapped in between wood is the best of both worlds. the weakest link in the design is the joining of wood and metal. I tried to replace screws into the wood with through bolts that passed through the wood into a steel plate I put on the back sides. I did this in all the structurally week areas, like the latches and hinge areas and the joints of intersecting wood beams. I fumble through the wood repairs and look forward to seeing what a real wood craftsman does. I will be following along.
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