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1928 chevy 4cyl motor

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RedRodder, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,659

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Saginaw Engine works? I've always wondered just what went on at the Chevrolet Gray Iron Foundry (now GM Saginaw Metal Casting Operations).

    Now I know. Makes me want a Chevy Four!

    -Dave
     
  2. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,008

    bct
    Member

    is that the engine i brought out to you? i hope not...there is another down the road for sale....
     
  3. Hadn't thought about long/short journals- well, guess I'll just have to go down to Auto Zone and have the computer jockey order me up a spare Wills St. Claire crank... :D (don't you wish it were that easy)
     
  4. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,485

    97
    Member

    Ha ha [​IMG]........ that might not be as hard to do as you would think........... the owner of the biggest stash of Wills St Clair cars and parts is (or was in 2005) Tom Lieb , owner of Scat Cranks.:cool:


    http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2005/05/01/hmn_feature14.html
     
  5. Unsafe6
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 129

    Unsafe6
    Member

    BCT Yes thats the one ,but It donated lots of great parts. One cylinder was completley caved in and could be sleeved if I could find a machinist willing to poke it big enough. I would love another Chevy 4 for sure message me the facts G!
     

  6. Hmmm, I know of at least a couple HAMBers that know him...

    Hmmm...:D
     
  7. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    A few more easily obtained pistons that are 3.75 inch bore:

    Ford 292
    Buick 300/340
    Rambler 287

    I'll have to dig out my old TRW Engine Parts size listing catalog and see if any of them are possibilities.
     
  8. Unsafe6
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 129

    Unsafe6
    Member

    Great Heathen can you find pin to crown & wrist pin measurements?
     
  9. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    Well, it doesn't look good. All of the 3.75 bore pistons listed in my '89 TRW catalog have a shorter compression height than the stock piston, except for the 261 Chevy six slugs. If you dare bore the block .125 oversize, an L3082F piston has a 3.8 bore size and a compression height of 2.010 (0.135 taller than stock) and a 1 inch pin diameter, but that's what bronze bushings are for. No, I don't know what that one fits at the moment.

    P.S. I just found the application: 1980-84 Cadillac 368.
     
  10. 3.75 is really it- any more and the pistons'll be scraping against each other.
     
  11. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Not necessary true (and I might be the one who told you) but recently read that a couple people had gone out to 3 7/8" and used Ford A pistons. Myself- I wouldn't go over 3 3/4"

    Horrible Herbie
     
  12. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Heathen- you beat me to it with the 6L 80-84 Cad piston.

    If you want to take a chance boring that big, the 1" pin diameter will work just fine with Ford A rods, which are 1/8" longer with 1" pins stock


    Herb
     

  13. IT WAS YOU!!!... :D


    seriously though, I was wondering if we could put some ideas together for the "best" modification combinations for say, a simple hop up, more of a "rodded" engine and then the full-out (like the Rufi/Spurgin/Giovanine) racing engine.
     
  14. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    From the sounds of the archaic oiling system, it probably falls into the same category as a stock A engine---anything beyond a conservative carb/cam/compression upgrade will require extensive modifications. A set of 261 Chevy pistons, downdraft manifold/carb, and modest camshaft reprofiling for improved street use. On the subject of transmissions: at Carlisle last week, I saw a floor shift Chevy 3 speed of the '37-'38 vintage, and wondered how close the small bolt pattern of it would be to the 4 cylinder bell housing. At least you'd have the luxury of helical gears and synchronizers. Unfortunately, the darkening skies of early Saturday afternoon caused many vendors to call it a week and pack up, and the transmission was gone before I made it back to ask about it.
     
  15. I think that a later 3 speed with synchros will bolt on to the stock bellhousing- and fitting a T5 or other 5 speed (T9 has a smaller housing as does the 5 speed on a Izuzu Trooper) is just a matter of making an adapter like Stevie G posted.
     
  16. 39cent
    Joined: Apr 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,569

    39cent
    Member
    from socal

    Talking to a friend he told me he had some 27/28 chevy 4 engine parts that he would sell. Also OLDSMOBILE 3 port heads. Since he doesnt have a computer you can call call him at.
    818-353-4303 ask for Frank, He's an old school rodder.
     
  17. 39cent,

    Thanks for the information- I had a really nice conversation with Frank and wound up with LOTS of information! His older brothers built a '27 touring to race out in CA and had him search yards for parts!

    He mentioned his brothers having him get mid 30's Pontiac 6 connecting rods- anybody know anything about these... length/availability/etc?

    Unfortunately left my notes from our talk at school- will post more tomorrow!

    He also mentioned spending time with Mr. Upshaw (forget his first name) who swore by the '28 block (instead of the '25)- siad not to worry about the distributor running through the center main- just bolt/weld reinforcment to it and you will be fine.

    Started re-reading John Gerber's book. He had problems with the center main caps on his 490 block spinning... his solution was to grind the center journal an extra 3/16" at each end and use a Fordson tractor bearing (and bolting extra material to the main and cap)!

    This thread has been fantastic- thank you ALL for your contributions! Having a BLAST getting ideas and things together to possibly start on the speedster chassis and/or engine this summer!!!
     
  18. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    Now that you mention it, I remember reading about using 1936-38 Pontiac six cylinder rods in hot A engines in a very old HRM. Since guys have used A rods in early Chevy fours, it sounds like a case of if A=B and B=C, then...........
     
  19. farcus1
    Joined: Mar 4, 2008
    Posts: 56

    farcus1
    Member

    I just finished building a 28 chevy motor today and think it looks pretty good. I had new bearings poured for the mains then bored them and reconditioned the rods and crank. I found the valves are the same as the small valve 350 chevy valve and now wonder if it wouldn't have been a good idea to install a slightly larger valve to make a little more HP.

    I also have some trouble deciphering the markings on the flywheel. I need to time the engine and don't know what the markings mean. One marking is 25 and the other is almost unreadable except it has a line between two letters. Ant info on this sure would be appreciated.
     
  20. Unsafe6
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 129

    Unsafe6
    Member

  21. Farcus1,

    Welcome to the HAMB! Where are you in NC?
     
  22. Unsafe6,

    Dunno- I just did a quick jaunt through espay and didn't find much except aluminum pistons and rods for an 8 that were pretty pricey.
     
  23. farcus1
    Joined: Mar 4, 2008
    Posts: 56

    farcus1
    Member

    Just outside of Asheville.
     
  24. farcus1
    Joined: Mar 4, 2008
    Posts: 56

    farcus1
    Member

    I have the 28 chevy specs but there is no info on the flywheel there or in the motor manual.
     
  25. farcus1
    Joined: Mar 4, 2008
    Posts: 56

    farcus1
    Member

    I'll try to post some pics of this one tomorrow.
     
  26. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    The 6 cyl Pontiac rods were used as a better rod for Ford B engines, and even then the crankpin end needed to have a couple steel half circles welded in to bring it down to a size suitable for babbiting to fit the 2" B rod journal--way too big to fit a Chevy block.

    The numbers on the flywheel only mean something IF the flywheel is bolted to the crank so that the numbers are visible through the flywheel window when #1 piston is at TDC. The flywheel will fit the crank six different ways. One of the lines should be TDC #1, the 25 line is where the points should open with the engine stationary, and the hand spark advance lever at the full advance position. There is another 20 degrees centrifugal advance in the 27-28 distributor, which gives a total of 45 degrees advance. 45 is not a mistake- there is so little movement of the mixture in the round combustion chamber with no squish area that it takes this much advance to get the whole mixture lit in time. This goes for Ford OHV conversions that have a similar combustion chamber shape (miller/schofield, crager et al)

    When considering other transmissions to put behind the C4, dont even consider using the Chevy rear. They were famous for breaking axles with the anemic stock engine (crap material again) and while there are axles and driveshafts available in modern materials, any 4 cylinder Chevy rear is going to have contracting band brakes working on the outside of steel drums - 1910 technology at its finest! It wasn't untill the 1932 six cylinder cars that shoes on the inside the rear drums made their appearance- but probably with the same low quality axle material. If you want to use Chevy wheels, any of the small Jap pickups of the seventies use the same 6 bolt wheel pattern, and at least Nissan has the correct drum to drum width

    Herb
     
  27. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,760

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For what it's worth i recently sold 6 Pontiac rods. Three NOS and three rebuilt, for $150. They looked OK but I'm not sure they were worth the effort. Not for what I'm doing anyway.
     
  28. farcus1
    Joined: Mar 4, 2008
    Posts: 56

    farcus1
    Member

    I looked and one mark is the 25 mark which comes up before the other mark so, I know this is the 25 degree mark. The other mark is a O or U with a line and C. It looks like this: OlC or UlC with the line being longer. Would this mean 0 degrees at TDC? I set the motor at TDC with the piston at the top and the valves closed then, located the flywheel with the pointer at the OlC line. Would this be correct to time the motor? The way I learned it this is correct but have never worked on one of these motors and most early motors do have their eccentricities.
     
  29. Herb,

    Gerber used T innards with his 490 rear axle... wonder if that would work with the '28?

    Chances are that I'll go with a Nissan (or similar) rear, but knowing that you could mix and match with T parts would be great for those that want to look stock.

    Did a little searching on Rodeo/Trooper/Samauri 5 speeds and they're pretty inexpensive and should handle that amazing amounts of torque that the C4 generates :D. There's also the T9 that was in the Mercury Merkur, but they're getting hard to find and the Lotus Super 7 crowd snatches them up pretty quick.
     

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