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1928 chevy 4cyl motor

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RedRodder, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. Barn Find
    Joined: Feb 2, 2013
    Posts: 2,320

    Barn Find
    Member
    from Missouri

    If anybody should need one of these motors, there is one taking up space in Dad's barn. It powered a saw rig that I saw run in the early 80s. It's been in the barn since then. It still has the cowl and radiator attached to the frame rails, I presume. Thought I had a photos of it, but you can just barely see the cowl and instrument panel under the junk that has accumulated in the decades since it was put there.

    [​IMG] http://photos.imageevent.com/shaggy/junk/websize/IMG_3950.JPG
     
  2. Egor
    Joined: Sep 1, 2010
    Posts: 67

    Egor
    Member

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    From the Model T Speed Secrets. Louis Chevrolet 1921

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  3. Egor
    Joined: Sep 1, 2010
    Posts: 67

    Egor
    Member

    Herb are you trying to build an engine for your car with just a little more power? George the guy l got my engine from kept the 3port head for a beautiful 25 roadster, just wanted to be able to say it had the Oldsmobile head. And kept it stock looking Oldsmobile under the hood. Have fun

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  4. WillH
    Joined: Dec 8, 2010
    Posts: 16

    WillH
    Member
    from Texas

    Six Ball; thanks so much for the good pictures of the Durant rods. I am looking for a set of these and had found the ones on ebay; was about to pull the trigger, but the big ends just looked too big.

    WillH
     
  5. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,330

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    You are more than welcome.:)
     
  6. Egor- that is one of my favorite books! Bought my copy in the basement bookstore of the Smithsonian back in the 80's and have just about worn it out :D

    Sixball... can't remember you posting pics of Durant rods (might just be my "Sometimers" kicking in)?
     
    Egor likes this.
  7. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,330

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    The post with the link to Durant rod pictures is on page 54 of this thread. :cool:
     
  8. Egor
    Joined: Sep 1, 2010
    Posts: 67

    Egor
    Member

    Herb - looking at the aluminum rods back a few pages ago, it looks like the filer was using the fast ford book. He followed precisely what was told in that book. Too bad those would be fun to try. The only hiccup would be if they were cast and a high school Foundry. Aluminum with standard dimensions I don't think would be strong enough. Have fun

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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  9. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Egor

    Yes, for sure that is where the idea came from. HOWEVER, there is a large difference in doing all that to a Ford Vanadium alloy rod and any aluminum alloy one--that probably isn't a whole lot stronger than the carbon steel Chevy one in the first place. The rods were cast (or unlikely forged) in a steel die--there is a small company logo on the center of the beam, near the big end. To be the same strength as alloy steel, forged aluminum rods have to be twice as bulky as the steel ones, damned near as heavy, and then suffer from a limited fatigue life. Take a look at https://tracksales.com.au/blog/how-much-does-10-000hp-cost.html 12 runs @ 5 secs max each run equals 1 MINUTE at full power--and at that point they dont throw them away because they are cheap to replace--then look at how bulky the aluminum rod is compared to an admittedly stock steel one--but even the top notch steel rods do not LOOK all that much different than the stockers. Way out of the C4 range, I know, but there some engine uses where alum. has proven that it can do the job over the years--rods aren't one of them.

    The rods came in a ''race engine" (25 block) that was bought at Hershey, primarly to get the 3 port head.

    Yes, someday I would like to put a more approiate engine in my '28 coupe--the one that I put in when I restored the car is a Chevy 4--but it is a diesel that was offered in the Luv pickup (Isuzu 2.2L) Recently it ''grew'' a roots blower, and aside from the diesel clatter it is a very nice street machine. The long range plan has always been to ultimately replace it with one of the long stroke ''Oldsmobile'' motors (also used in the F, FA,[long wb larger touring and roadsters] T, TA and TB [earlier long WB ''one ton'' trucks]) These are easy to mistake for the normal 171 cid engines, if you are not familiar with them--but they have the same bore, with a 5 1/4''stroke 224 cid, and 12 1/2'' long rods (way too wimpy to think of putting these in a 171 engine, and besides, they would have to be cut and welded to shorten them before someone gets that idea--I thought of it already). So, to build one of these I have to (at least) weld counterweights on the crank, grind and balance it, come up with much stronger rods (wip--see later photo) Pistons, and a mild cam regrind are taken care of. Two SU carbs (off my roadster--really bit too much for the hopped up 171 in it (avatar car) but ought to work out nicely for the 224 Other things like adapting a more suitable flywheel, creating a side drive and mount for a mag etc, etc.

    Started a while back on a set of tubular rods, machined from 4340 heat treated steel billet. got this far about 2-3 years ago and they got set aside for another diesel transplant project--If I live long enough, fine--until then I have a 28 std coupe like no other, that is fun to drive in its present configuration Large bolbs on either end are only there for past machining operation--primarily to get a hole through the length of the tapered tubular midsection.
    020.JPG

    Some more machine work done after this but can't find photo

    Herb
     
  10. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 861

    Kume
    Member

    Herb your a bloody legend! Great info and great long term project - I wonder how many 224s are still out there ?

    I have been moving forward with my C4 into T roadster project and so far no problems - clearer pics to come soon.
    I have a dummy 27 block sitting in it at the mo but am building another 26 block with the mild hop up as prescribed by Herb but just acquired some Durant rods so will be playing with the combustion chamber over the next few months along with the three port tappet fulcrum. Chose the 26 block as I have one with good bottom end and I want the option of a centre mount distributor although it gets in the way of the centre exhaust on the 3 port head. I have a set of standard C261 pistons and a set of Model A pistons so have some options. The front cross member holding up the C4 in the pics is just another T front cross member - the rear mount is a 25 chev rear cross member. Still planing on using twin 1 1/4 SUs - hoping it will all come together by the end of the year.
    Kume
    Photo0081.jpg Photo0082.jpg Photo0083.jpg
     
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  11. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Good work, and keep us in formed please!

    Be sure to get the crank and flywheel dynamically balanced, and statically balance the rods and pistons. Makes a big difference, as does welding c'weights on the crank--before balance, obviously.

    As to how many 224's are still out there, Remember a couple things. Only the 1925 engines had the 3 port head--all before that had the standard Chevy single port (and also, incidentally, 1 5/8'' rod bearings in place of 1 1/2'') and, aside from the ''Baby Grand'' touring and the ''Royal Mail'' roadster_ both larger, more expensive cars, most that were sold under the Chevy badge went into trucks where they were run to death, due the heads cracking (single port) and small rod bearings I have one stock rod that was brazed back together after being broken near the top--a sure sign of over-reving. So, I would think that most surviving engines were picked up by restorers, as spares, or for parts, They also suffered in later life from the pot metal distributor housings on the rear of the generators ''growing'' and decomposing. Not sure about Oldsmobile figures (where my engines and parts came from) but I do think that the 3 port heads came earlier there.

    So, the end answer is more based on the number of restored cars, and trucks, than any thing else.

    Not many.

    Herb
     
  12. WillH
    Joined: Dec 8, 2010
    Posts: 16

    WillH
    Member
    from Texas

    What is the group consensus, (pros and cons), of running the side covers on the '28 engine? Covers would hinder cooling of the right side block and head. The head right side is already hotter because of the exhaust outlets. The covers aren't oil tight, although would keep some dust out but definitely trap hot air in. The older fours worked without them. Aluminum covers would look nice; however, I kinda like to see the pushdod/tappet action. I definitely want valve covers.
     
  13. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,146

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Very cool information about the rods and pistons. Does anyone remember Phil Irving's book on hopping up motorcycles from the forties, where he describes making new light weight connecting rods out of steel tubing and plate, welded together ?
     
  14. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 761

    SR100
    Member

    Tuning For Speed? It has been scanned and can be downloaded at tuningforspeed.com.
     
  15. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Right about Irving, but didn't he propose 4130 sheet pieces welded together to get consistent grain flow--without using tube? I considered this when I began my project.

    And WillH--NO side covers--just more pieces to fall off! <grin>

    Herb
     
  16. What head is this? Dual exhaust ports.....truck motor? Otherwise similar to my '28 single port head, will they interchange? Has a bowtie and 348540 on top
    Bought it today at a farm auction on a whim.

    DSCN0383.JPG DSCN0384.JPG DSCN0385.JPG DSCN0386.JPG
     
    gas pumper likes this.
  17. It is a bolt up to your engine with the single port, that is a '28 head which came out on all passenger and commercial vehicles in 1928.
     
  18. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 349

    Jiminy
    Member

    Just curious how much a Montana farm auction whim costs? Looks like a great score!
     
  19. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,927

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I bought one of those engines. Was told it came from a 28 truck. Paid $100.
     
  20. Paid $25 for the head......figured I could use it as a doorstop if nothing else.

    Will the rocker arms from my single port head work on this one?

    Also, has anyone ever adapted a newer 4 or 5 speed open drive tranny to these engines?
     
  21. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 349

    Jiminy
    Member

    I have seen those for $400 and up on ePay. Definite score.
     
  22. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Rockers will NOT interchange, because '27 back are 1 to 1, '28's are 1½ to one.

    I put a Volvo M40 trans (4 speed) behind the engine in my avatar car. Hardest part was shortening the pressed steel Chev bell housing, but we have a large lathe that made that part easy (also putting flywheels on a diet).

    Herb
     
  23. Herb, thanks for your reply. I need to get this head apart and make sure it's usable before going too far. Will keep an eye out for the correct rockers.
    This build is still in the planning/dreaming stage. Just gathering parts and looking for ideas.
     
  24. Thanks for the heads up!
     
  25. Happy to, and the seller has other good '28 parts as well :)

    Good luck!
     
  26. I'm think I'm gonna try to tear down the "new" 2 port head tomorrow and make sure it is usable....before I go buying rocker arms for it.

    I wasn't really planning on building this motor, but since finding this head I'm getting more interested in it. Be cool to hear it run after 50+ years......
     
  27. brasscarguy
    Joined: Jun 12, 2010
    Posts: 179

    brasscarguy
    Member
    from seattle

    I have been restoring a 1928 4c 1 man sprint car. It now runs and drives posted some photos here a couple of months back. Running a Winfield "S" downdraft carburetor on a Winfield aluminum manifold. Ignition is a Wico vertical magneto. For cooling a Whippet radiator was used. It rolls on Budd 30x3-1/2 wire wheels, powder coated rims and hubs with polished stainless spokes and smooth black treadless Firestone racing tires. I have found an original overhead cam cylinder head for a 4c supposed to be a Roof but no names or marks,

    I just picked up two 4 cylinder General Motors engines. They have 3 port heads, external front mounted oil pump, pressurized oiling. These motors are "490" Chevrolet blocks with Oldsmobile heads that came out of Sampson/GM trucks of the early '20's.

    I plan on using 1 of these in my 2 man Paco speedster I'm working on. I have read John Gerber's racing history from the 20's up to WW2. His racing career was incredible with a couple hundred finishes mostly first place.

    His take on the '28 Chev motor was they were weak and often cracked at the distributor hole, so he went to the 490 block longer stroke and bigger bore much stronger crankcase. He used Oldsmobile 3 port heads and Winfield Carburetors. He made his own cam and used Durant tubular rods. Later he used a model "C" counterbalanced crankshaft'.

    Here is the interesting part, he mounted the "490" motor on a model t pan and connected the crankshaft to a model t planetary transmission with a Ruxtell 2 speed rear axle. He had much quicker off the line acceleration with the planetary. I will build my engine and transmission the same way.

    This project will be my next one as soon as I finish the restoration of my '28 sprinter. I will have the '28 finished in time for the hill climb at Lincoln Nebraska next June. See ya all in Lincoln.

    just sayin'

    brasscarguy
     
    Egor likes this.
  28. doliak
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 166

    doliak
    Member

    Egor likes this.

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