The earlier engines had different size rod journals - 1 3/8" vs 1 1/2" If you go back far enough the main sizes may have changed also. I will do some digging to get the exact info, but let me say for now that if you have an engine with the distributor in the center of the block (as opposed to on the back of the generator) you have a 26-28, with the larger rod throws. I will post more exact info tomorrow. Herb Kephart
Casting number 346709 would be a replacement block cast in 29, I guess. My resource says 346709 was introduced in February of 1926 and used through December of 1927. So it would typically be associated with 26-27s, I think. For the record: K 30 7 = November 30, 1927 H 9 8 = August 9, 1928 D 17 8 = April 17, 1928 H 14 9 = August 14, 1929 I suspect Chevrolet restorers would be interested in that last one, as my document seems to indicate that theres disagreement as to whether anything 4 cylinder was cast after the end of regular production. -Dave
"I suspect Chevrolet restorers would be interested in that last one, as my document seems to indicate that there’s disagreement as to whether anything 4 cylinder was cast after the end of regular production." Where did that information come from? I'm pretty sure that I have come across '28 heads in the past with '30's casting dates. I think that Ford was still supplying new A and B blocks after the second world war, for a short time- so why wouldn't Chevrolet? Yes, I know about Chevy dealers smashing blocks on trade ins, but a replacement block is a repair item. Herb Kephart
Very interesting. That block is broken (froze) so is no good, but had an odd casting area and that was where it broke. Herb, Thanks for the crank info. I'll check what I have. One of the cranks has the "Knobs" on the throws ground off. could this be a balancing effort? Did they have the ability to do that? Again thanks for the info. Norm
While we are posting cast date codes mine are F 11 5 = June 11 1925 (Saginaw casted block, {denoted by cloverleaf}) D 30 7 = April 30 1927 (Ferro casted block {left side rear}) G 14 7 = July 14 1927 (Ferro casted block {left side rear}) E 4 8 = May 4 1928 (Chevrolet casted block) 3-port 5-9-21 (Saginaw casted head)
I have four -28 blocks, which of two are truck blocks. I don´'t have the passenger car block dates available here, but the truck block dates are shown below. My blocks K 9 7 E 17 8 The latter is interesting, since it has been cast in may 1928, but it has a serial number over 5 million and I also have the copy from GM archives, which shows that the truck has been delivered to the local dealer in February 1929. So it is one of the last sold fours here.
If it is cracked in the water jacket to the outside that is not much of a fix. Seems pretty normal for a Dodge Bros. Cracks in the main bearing web area are a different thing.
Rich This is the Brake I was talking about. It seems that a few taps with a hammer would cause the whole area to fall out. I'm sure glad it wasn't one of the other blocks. Included the pictures of the crank that was ground (for balancing??). The grinding was only on one side of the crank. Any ideas? - Norm
Can anyone tell me what the purpose was for the honeycomb looking insert in the intake ports on the 28 heads?
Yes Norm, I have seen, and have, cranks with large areas hacked away with a grinder. Enough are around, that it must have been an effort by the factory to balance. And hacked, is being kind------ Herb Kephart
They are part #344104, cylinder head air distributor and tube, and are marked with an asterisk in the parts book, which means a "medium fast moving part", but for the life of my I can't figure why. I have asked on the VCCA forum if anyone has done a comparison of leaving in/ taking out, but the only answers that I got were of two types- couldn't see that they did anything but block some of the air, so took them out, and, The factory put them in for a reason, so they belong there. There may be some truth in this, as I can't believe that they put two additional pieces in the head for no reason- even if they did only sell for 15 cents retail each, but their value may have something to do with gas in the 20's (they first showed up in 1925). . I take them out and toss them. Herb Kephart
Thanks much Herb! It doesnt make a lot of sense for their use. I picked up a cylinder head last evening that had them in there, but my other one has them removed. I want to do a little porting on the head and was not sure why they were there. But what you say and what those on VCCA said makes sense. I remember in a previous post someone said that a simple way to boost the power on these motors was to change to a larger carberator. Thanks again and I am really enjoying all the posts about beefing up these little four bangers.
BTW...this is currently listed on the %bay ....... <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="5%" colSpan=2>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Roaring Roadster Sprint Nascar WWII 1940-1950 [/SIZE][/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD colSpan=2>[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Vehicle Description [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD width=8> </TD><TD width=770><!--/EBAY_AUTO_SYITEMPLATE1--><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="5%" colSpan=2>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Roaring Roadster Sprint Nascar WWII 1940-1950 [/SIZE][/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD colSpan=2>[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Vehicle Description [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD width=8> </TD><TD width=770><!--/EBAY_AUTO_SYITEMPLATE1-->Roaring Roadster Sprint Nascar WWII 1940-1950, Looks like it may have an earlier 30's Big car frame under it. Was set up to race only, no clutch, no starter, no flywheel, rear handbrake only, 4 holes on left door area where hand fuel pump was mounted, very light. I do not know if that is the car racing the hardtops. It came from Oklahoma, but I was told that it probably from Texas or West coast. 1927 highly modified chevy 4 cylinder. Deep sump oil pan, external oil pump, no points, Generated hollowed out for magneto, </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>The cylinder head is missing and the picture isnt very clear.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I don't doubt that a few taps would drop the whole section out. However, welding cast is no longer the big deal it used to be. my Dodge Bros had as bad or worse freeze cracks and I repaired in without spending much money. Don't throw that block away. It's worth saving. I would guess the grinding marks on your crank are just normal foundry removal of flash left over from the forging process. Don't think you can do much in the way of balancing with out weights.
... if you look carefully, the first 2 inches or so of the intake ports themselves are a pressed-in steel tube that will come out pretty easily. Herb, I know we talked about this the last time I was up- every one of my heads is the same way! Will take pics when I get a chance.
I figure that with the crummy small updraft carburated intake and cavernous square port in the head that the finned insert was the Chevrolet Engineers answer to raw gas pooling in the head. It kind of reminds me of when Honda started exporting motorcycles that actually retained oil in the crankcase and transmission some of the English Company Engineers put small catch pans under their engines and transmissions to catch the oil so that it wouldn't drip all over the floor. When the head gets hot on the Chevrolet the finned insert helps vaporize the fuel. With any better carburator the problem will go away. The only way to get any flow is to take them out.
Bill, my engine for sure does not have any Ford crank. The engine is all apart and those pistons in the pic hanging are the ones that go to that engine. I will find the crank and look and see what was done to it, but it was a Chevy crank for sure. I know it has the oil holes drilled in it, and the extra oil lines on the outside. If it is a Rufi engine it was not one of his best. I wish I could have gotten the head, I saw it before it got away, it had cool cast rocker covers and the popular rockers of the time, from a Plymouth? I don't remember. The lifters are not home made all the way but from something and then modified for the Chevy, they have a large contact for the cam lobe about the size of a half dollar. The adjusters on top are home made. I need to get all the parts for this engine together before something happens and they get lost. I was looking at the single intake and you can see bits of some other metal in the casting, I suspect it was made from scrap in a high school foundry, does give it some character. Have fun, Dave
Just for fun I had the boys over from church Thursday, I told the teacher that if he thought they would want to have a outing I would teach them something about the internal combustion engine. I cleaned out the garage around the engine to the hot rod, and let them take the top off and explained the workings of an engine, then let them put the top back on and let them torque the head and set the valves. They wanted to see it run so I put a jumper battery on and put fuel down the carb vent and primed it and hit the starter. When we were putting the top back on they pulled the plug wires out of the cap and I thought I got them back in correct but (no) I am glad it was off, so the first thing it did was blow a giant flame out the exhaust, the boys loved it. I have some headers made out of old chop pipes to a motorcycle so they are only 2 1/2 feet long and it was a blast. Well I got it running and I think it was a hit, they all went home laughing and singing praises to my name, LOL. I hope the mom's are OK with it, we did have to put out one small fire. I worried till after midnight going out and checking, I thought I could still smell something still burning in there. Have fun, Dave
Here's some pictures of a restoration project I worked on earlier this year. The car and engine are '25, it was a record holder in '48 & '49 at the lakes and also won car of the year awards. People more experienced than I have stated that the later engines with the distributor coming out the side of the block are weaker and prone to block failure when pushed hard. The engine has a modified Olds head with custom 1.72 rockers, custom long rods and 305 Chev pistons and a counter weighted Ford "B" crank. Custom front cover mounts an oil pump driven off the end of the cam. Oil system uses an external oil gallery to feed the mains & cam bearings. Distributor is a converted Mallory. There is a lot of work necessary to make these engines durable. Well, I attempted to send pictures but since I'm new to this I don't understand the URL request.
If the pictures are not online somewhere else, ignore the url request and send them as an attachment( the paperclip icon up at the top) in the standard reply not the quick reply
BHT8BALL, Welcome to the HAMB!!!... would the nice folks who made those rockers be willing to make some more ?
Where is the distributor mounted? On the rear of the extended front plate it looks like. Nice rockers- I think that they have Mac slobbering------ Herb Kephart
Hi, I am amazed at the interest in this thread! I'll answer your questions in the order they were asked, as best as I can. They green paint is custom mixed from X O rust base at the local True Value hardware, I'll try to get the formula for you when I go there next. I spray that paint with very little thinner and no regulator, 125 PSI. You have to work hard to make it run. If 6 people were interested in the rockers I could come up with a price that might be affordable. I picked heat treated 4140 to make them out of because the car went to Pebble Beach Concourse and they didn't have aluminum rockers back then. Also aluminum rockers require either a roller tip or a heat treated insert and I didn't have the time to develop that. The finned valve cover might be available, I could check on it and post the results here if it is. If you guys are interested in more pictures including the inside showing the main caps & counterweighted "B" crank I'll put together a string of pictures next week. It takes a long time to download a lot of pictures at once. There is a post of Pebble Beach on HAMB showing the car, it was restored to as original as possible thru the use of many photos and was not over restored like is the norm, consequently it only got a yellow ribbon. I took a real & currently run "T" track roadster to an invitational "A" club Ford only car show and received minor attention, being upstaged by a metalflake orange fiberglass "T". Yes I'm probably a purist but I'm not trying to impress anyone either. Well, work is calling, taul, Pat
Pat, Thanks for the response! I'm guessing that this is the Spurgeon/Giovanine roadster taht you worked on (you all did a fantastic job on the restoration). we've been sharing ideas/etc for a while now, but you got to work on the real engine itself!!! Thanks for what you've told so far and anything else you can share would be greatly appreciated (I'd like to see more of the pressurized oiling system and the timing cover as well)! Bill PS- I'm sure you'll get a good group of guys together who'd like to get a set (or more) of the rockers and a copy of that valve cover.
The Jalopy Journal
