1927 American LaFrance speedster project begins

I just started on this chain drive 1927 American LaFrance fire truck that I am converting into a huge speedster/racer. The wheelbase is 172" long! I plan on moving the radiator down and back about 6". The hood will also be lengthened about 14" and it will lose about 6" of height as well. That should move the cowl way back where I want it. The aluminum cowl will have to lose about 6" in height as well. The steering column will have to be lengthened.
We found this truck under a shed that had collapsed on it during hurricane Ike in 08. A friend of mine is a huge fire truck collector and he bought it to use the engine and pump to help restore another truck he has. I ended up with the rest of the truck to make my speedster.
So far I have lowered the rear of the chassis about 8" by sectioning the frame 3.5" and removing a pile of rear springs. Those rear wheels are 42" tall!




This is what the truck looked like moments before we took it apart



That large lump on top of the differential is the pump transmission. I removed all 200lbs of it. It is what you engaged to make the pump go. Note that the differential/transaxle is hard mounted to the frame and that the pumpkin is made of bronze.






this is the frame before I lowered it 8" in rear




the frame after it was sectioned 3.5" and lowered


This is what it looks like lowered 8" in rear. I still will need to move the radiator down and back. The hood will be lengthened 14". The transaxle shifter and e-brake handle will be moved back a mile too.

 

A few engines in the background for varying performance.

 

very cool , i dig these old fire truck speedster builds , bring em on

 

Here is a sketch I did of what I would like this thing to look like when done.

 

I've wanted to do this for a looong time,... I don't see me doing it now,.. but will be watching this thread closely,.... Good luck,. looks like it will be a really fun build !

 

Cool build

 

And now for something completely different.

Subscribed.

 

I see that you straightened the hood already. Did it come with a gas tank? I'd be interested in seeing pics of that. In my mind, that's always a major part of the speedster look. Keep up the good work!

 

cool, What motor are you going with? - Would be cool with an Aero Air-cooled V8 or V12!

 

you are a glutton for punishment...

 

I wouldn't call the hood straightened just yet. It is still pretty rough. But, the good news is I have several more older and shorter in height LaFrance hoods with no dents in them. I'll just weld two of them together and cut off the excess. It didn't come with a gas tank, but I have several in various diameters as well.

 

I am the definition of glutton for punishment. No project to large or insurmountable for me. I'll probably fail, but I have to try.

 

I'm not certain on the engine just yet. I have a 600 cubic inch Hercules flat head 6cyl 1940's fire truck engine available for use. It would look somewhat stock under the hood and have one heck of a rattle out of open exhaust headers.

I also have access to several Seagrave and American LaFrance V12 engines as well. They are only in the high 400 cubic inch range though.

I would like to use a lower r.p.m. large cubic inch engine no matter which direction I go. This thing isn't going to sound right with a high revving engine.

The key is to change the small sprockets on the transaxle to about double their current size. It would run about 55mph when it was new with a T-head engine that would only turn about 1600 rpms full throttle. I figure just about any other engine will turn 2500 easily and if I change the sprockets out, then this thing will fly.----it just won't stop because they only have rear drum brakes.

 

Cool build, subscribed.

 

Oooo...I'm liking this!! Subscribed.

 

All American Lafrance firetrucks were built in Elmira,NY until the '80's. Those old ones are all over the place, in fields etc. NO, just kiddin'!!!!

 

A buddy of mine is selling an American LaFrance "E" model V-12... the earliest V-12 ALF used... the design dates back to 1932-33. His is out of a much later rig. It's also larger than the three "Junior V-12's" (the F, G, and J models). The largest of the Juniors was 527 CI (the J). I believe the "E" was 758 or somewhere in that range... I'd have to look up the specifics to be sure. I gotta admit that I'm kind of a purist when it comes to the old ALFs, but I'm glad to see that your buddy used the fire pump and gear box for a fire apparatus restoration.

My aerial truck (1948 ALF 700 Series) caught fire (before I bought it) and the cab was crushed (before I bought it), so I feel your pain with the "big project" vision you have. Gonna be following this build as well, good luck with it. And if you have any spare "J" V-12s laying around, I'm still looking for a viable engine for my aerial truck... hahahaha.

Damon

 

Cool build I'll be watching and cheering you on.

 

And I thought that I was a bad boy for taking a 56 Americian LaFrance pumper and making a ramp truck out of it.

 

Here are two more pictures from the day we hauled it home. The body had extremely bad rust on it from being to close to the Texas Gulf Coast for to many years. That salt air does wonders for vehicles. Otherwise, this one would have been a great restoration candidate.

 

very cool!

 

I got the transaxle shifter levers and the radiator removed from the chassis today. I also was able to determine that I am going to have to lengthen the hood 20 inches!

The cowl is made of cast aluminum and I need to shorten it about 5-6" in height. Who in the Houston TX area can do a decent job of welding cast aluminum back together if I section the cowl? Any suggestions?

I also was able to determine that the steering column will need to be lengthened 16". The gear ratio in the gear box is terrible. I takes only 1-1/2 turns from lock to lock. Even with no engine in it, it is a bear to turn the wheels.

 

some one built a Seagrave into a rod, a monster rod think it was out of minnesota was at back to the 50's a couple years ago a big monster

 

Here are some pictures of today's work. I propped the seat up a bit and placed the gas tank. I slid the cowl back about 26". The radiator that came with the truck is 6" taller than all of the earlier model LaFrance trucks. To see what the large radiator will look like dropped down 6", I placed another older radiator on the chassis for looks. I like it better already. So, tomorrow, I'll slide the cross member down and back 6". I placed an old beat up earlier hood on it to just for looks. Keep in mind, this is all a mock up at this point.

 

cool ride. caught my attention because the regional history museum i work for has a 26 american la france engine. what are your plans for the leftovers? ours is pretty much complete, but if there's someting missing I might be interested.

 

The engine and pump parts are going to help restore a 1924 American LaFrance that we have. The hose bed is being turned into a small heavy duty utility trailer. There are a few other parts that I don't need, but those are going on Ebay.

 

I love your plans, the drawing is great. I ran a piece of equipment about fifty years ago that had a Hercules 601. It ran about 1200 rpms, I dont know what it would do without the governor. I know at 1200, nothing could slow it to 1100!
I like the sound of the V12 all into one pipe.

 

In the late sixties at a mall car show there was an American LaFrance speedster.
It was said to have been built fro the LaFrance family. It had a short wheelbase and a monicle windsheild.

Nick

 

headlights are the first thing that caught my attention. I'll give the truck a once over tomorrow and see if anything else is missing. our is running aftermarket units put on in the 40's or 50's--although we have 1 of the orgincals converted by the FD into a desk lamp/spotlight. cool project none-the-less. I'm subscribed!

 

I like different. Best of luck with the Build.

VR&C.