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1923 Dodge brass era speedster build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by carlisle1926, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    I have found a matching set of 24" disk wheels that I have decided to run instead of wire or wood spoke wheels. The disk wheels that are currently on here are not a matched set. (20" and 21"). I figure the huge 24" wheels will look period correct. I'll probably have to add some sort of friction shocks or snubbers to keep the rear from bouncing all over. As impossible as it seems, the frame seems to be fairly stable and doesn't move side to side like you would think with all those sloppy soft springs in the rear. I just bought several neat brass era items off of Ebay to use. Sight glass fuel gauge, magneto switch, 1910's headlight switch etc. It will probably be mid December before I can actually start cutting and pasting on the chassis. I wish I could find some more early Dodge front frame rail pieces to do the frame extension between the cowl and radiator.
     
  2. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    Here is my next question. I've decided to use the 292 Chevrolet that I have. The fire truck engines weigh to much for this chassis and are going to be a nightmare whenever I need parts. I'm looking for a 4 barrel intake for the 292 now, mainly because the a 4 barrel is shorter in height than the original two barrel that is currently on my engine. Hood clearance will be an issue with the tall 292. I recently found a 450 CFM holley 4 barrel that I was told was intended for use in 1972 or so Chevy trucks. Is that to much carb for a 292 or would I be better of finding a 390 Cfm carb? I would like his thing to be a gas saver. I strongly suspect that this 292 is going to be a handful for such a light weight car.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  3. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,847

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Clifford makes a 4 barrel manifold that fits the 194,230,250,and 292.You can find them on ebay daily .It's unlikely you will be able to make the 292 into any kind of mileage machine.
     
  4. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    I got a 1969 9" Ford truck rear axle today for the speedster. It has a 2.75 gear ratio! I suspect that once I put the huge 24" wheels on it, that ratio will be a bit to tall. But with a car that weighs nothing and won't have an overdrive, it might not be the end of the world.
    The trick is now I have to find a way to adapt the 1920's Dodge wheels that have a 5 on 6-1/2" bolt pattern onto an axle with a 5 on 5-1/2 pattern.

    I plan to start modifying the housing to look like something from the 1910's by adding a round bar truss on the bottom side and by making the rear of the pumpkin look more like a large Model T Ford. I just don't want most to immediately figure out that I replaced the original slow geared axle that had mechanical brakes with a "modern" axle.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  5. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,093

    noboD
    Member

    I think your 24 inch discs would have been from about a '24 and would have used a 32X4 high pressure tire. The 20's would have been from '25-6 and used a 5.25X20 low pressure tire. The 20's would ride much better and have better traction, IMO. The major problem with discs is the weight. I have the '20's on my '24 DB, which is incorrect but what i found first. I like both the look and ride.
     
  6. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    I hadn't considered that. I would think that the two 21" wheels that I have would also be low pressure, so maybe I should continue the search for more 21" wheels. I was really wanting to run the 24", but if they are high pressure and ride like garbage, that doesn't sound very fun.
    Jason
     
  7. Jack Innes
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 178

    Jack Innes
    Member

    The point is well founded on the 24" high pressure tires.

    The yellow 1925 taxi I posted earlier has the original 20" Michelin wheels with 6.00 X 20 tires & handles well.

    It was not unusual to have 21" on the back & 20" on the front back when speedsters/race cars were built. You can get good BFG tires that match in both sizes.

    This 1911 Buick factory built speedster has 15 year old BFG tires that are now well worn but still run true & smooth. This is a car that will cruise at 55 mph. I will need to replace the rear tires next year due to no tread left.
     

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  8. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,682

    The37Kid
    Member

    Jack, is that Harold Sharons old Buick or a sister car to it?
     
  9. Jack Innes
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 178

    Jack Innes
    Member

    Yes this is the car Harold drove far & fast for 30 years. I do not tour as much as Harold did but the car is used often. Below is a picture of it on the track at Mosport last summer - (it is lapping the cars in the background at this point)
     

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  10. Love this! keep it up! :D
     
  11. You've got to use those tank brackets. Grind off the rivets and swap them around.
     
  12. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,682

    The37Kid
    Member

    WOW! Bet Harold is up there looking over it happy that it has a good home! Harold was a one of a kind, I hope you got to meet him. He would love the HAMB, he was the King of Do it Yourself Restorations. Best wishes, Bob :)
     
  13. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,682

    The37Kid
    Member

    Those two ears on top are the attachment points for the spair tire carrier, you may want to find one and mount two spair tires as was common on race cars & speedsters back in the day. Bob :)
     
  14. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    I love the tank brackets. The issue that I see is that they are cast and radiused for a small tank instead of the large red tank that I plan on using. If I can heat them and stretch them, then I'm using them. I like the idea of attaching two spare tires there too.
     
  15. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,935

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    If you are going to go to the effort of making the modern engine look old, why not think about a fabricated intake with a couple of SU carbs. they have always looked the part on older vehicles, they work well and are easily tuneable. You could go with a pair of 1 3/4 in, or 3. 1 1/2in. then you can have them peeking out the side under the hood. 4bbls just look to muscle for a vehicle that is meant to evoke the late 20's early 30's speed scene.

    I like the disc wheels also. a little pinstripping will go a long way toward improving thier appearence and reflection og the period.
     
  16. Oldsmobucket
    Joined: Dec 11, 2005
    Posts: 330

    Oldsmobucket
    Member

    subscribed you got a killer start.
     
  17. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,093

    noboD
    Member

    Not sure you'd want to mount two disc spares on the back. Your ass would be dragging from the weight. I may have the joining pieces you need for the spare{s}. Let me look. BTW, I had my first ride in a real speedster this summer. Stock DB four engine and it was pretty snappy.
     
  18. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    Does any one have any 21" Dodge disk wheels that they would part with? I checked into the 21" tires and they are pretty affordable. The 24" tires are pretty steep, but they can be had in white or with the neat NON SKID lettering as a tread pattern. I've always loved those NON SKID tires, but if the tires are going to make this thing ride like crap and not have any traction, I would rather use 21" wheels.
     
  19. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    I've had these two old brass One-Mile Ray marine spot light shells laying around forever. I've just found my new headlights. I'll have to find a matching reflector and ring for the other bucket. I'll put 1920's car headlight lenses in them. I also got this 17" aluminum and wood steering wheel today. The 1910'/20's cast iron foot starter and the 1920's magneto switch came in off of Ebay.



    [​IMG]


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  20. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    I got the steering wheel mounted today. I just wanted to see if it would fit and it did! I'll pull it back off because I don't want to leave it out in the weather. I also got this neat long sight gauge that I will be mounted to the side of the gas tank. I found it and this small oil flow gauge on Ebay.

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Derek Mitchell
    Joined: Nov 22, 2004
    Posts: 1,796

    Derek Mitchell
    Member

    This build looks interesting.
     
  22. chuxx
    Joined: Jul 15, 2007
    Posts: 208

    chuxx
    Member

    Subscribed. I'm working on a speedster of sorts too. I'm glad you're working to make it a driver.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  23. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,682

    The37Kid
    Member

    I had one of those gauges it is off a house water tank. DO NOT use it for gas! Bob [​IMG]
     
  24. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    Here is a sight gauge out of a Grumman airplane I parted out from the 1970's. It is very similar to this water gauge. If the seals are replaced with leathers the way the aircraft gauge is done, I see no real issues. The wall thickness of the Pyrex glass tube is also significantly thicker than the tube in aircraft fuel gauge. I would also put in a shut off valve just in case of rupture.
    [​IMG]
     
  25. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,937

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Leathers or Viton, reseal for gas and the Pyrex & brass will be excellent. Great find!

    That front axle is the same (reverse Elliott) as one of mine. Era correct! Just change the spindles for the later ones with flanges for brake backing plates. ('25 & '26?
    One or two years still had reverse Elliott but used drum brakes.
     
  26. carlisle1926
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 536

    carlisle1926
    Member

    I need to look for the later brake and spindle assemblies then! Thanks for the advice.
     
  27. Jack Innes
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 178

    Jack Innes
    Member


    Dodge Brothers cars did not have front brakes until 1928 after the company was sold to Chrysler. The axle may not be the same but the good news is that they were hydraulic brakes at that point.

    The starter switch you showed earlier is a DB 12 volt switch. It will have the large contacts for the start circuit & other contacts to control the generator circuit. These cars had a large starter/generator.
     
  28. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,093

    noboD
    Member

    Jack, there was also a four wheel mechanical system called Steeldraulic, I think. It was maybe end of '27 early '28. I know at least one car with it, don't really understand it. But the owner says his two wheel braked car works better.
     
  29. Jack Innes
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 178

    Jack Innes
    Member

    The model 129 DB came out in August 1927 with Steeldraulic brakes. These were actually cable operated mechanical brakes with a misleading name to compete with other cars that had actual hydraulic brakes at the same time.

    The two wheel brakes were likely rod & lever operated which would work better than the cable set up that tends to stretch & need more adjustment.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  30. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,093

    noboD
    Member

    Jack, I'm sure you are right now that I think more. The car I know of is a Standard Six, which was very early '29, was not thinking before.
     

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