1923 Dodge brass era speedster build

O.K. i've given up on a ton of projects this past year, but I have decided that I have wanted one of these speedsters since I was a kid, so here we go. I had a huge American LaFrance chain drive chassis that I was going to use a while back, but the parts were all extremely overpriced and the chain drive system and wooden spoked wheels meant limited driving. So I sold that one.
I recently stumbled across this 1923 Dodge chassis and decided this is my new speedster/racer. The idea is to turn this this chassis into a pre-World War One racer, but with modern driving capabilities. So far, I have only mocked it up using old American LaFrance and Seagrave fire truck parts from the 1920's that I had laying around. These disk wheels look neat, but I'm probably getting rid of them because these aren't designed for speeds much over 40mph and they are not a matched set. I plan on finding huge wire spoke wheels instead. But if any of you have a lead on some old Dodge 21" or larger disc wheels let me know.

The old Dodge radiator is doomed too. I have and early brass American LaFrance radiator that I can cut down to size that will look more period correct. I have to build a cowl and floor obviously. I plan on stretching the frame in the hood area a few inches and lowering the chassis a bit. I love that this thing has FIVE rear springs!

 

I'll be watching this one. Cool project

 

5 rear springs!?!?!?

 

1 1/2 sets at each side of the rear axle and a transverse set across the rear of the frame.

 

Subscribed! They must have had a sale going of spring stock back in the day...

Love those gas tank brakets!

 

The rear of this chassis is pretty soft with all of those springs. As much as I love this rear axle, it is crazy low geared and the external clinching mechanical brakes aren't going to work for me, so it is getting changed out. I figure on using one long ladder bar that mounts near the drive shaft in order to control axle wrap because of all of those floppy springs. A lot of early cars had a large ladder bar instead of a torque tube.
I've got a line on several huge 20" split split ring wire wheels off of a 1928 Model AA truck that I think would be neat on here. My only complaint about them is they still look to Ford like.

 

Whats that little tube over the spring by the right rear wheel in pic #2? Looks like and old greaser???

 

That little tube is dangling there by a clip. Because the axle is a torque tube drive, the axle pivots in the u-bolt saddle. The small pipe was once threaded into the axle pivot point to lubricate the axle so that it could rotate in the saddle assembly.

 

I'm looking to drive this car as often and as far as possible, so reliability is priority here. I have a fresh rebuilt 1972 292 Chevrolet inline six sitting here that I have been planning on using and dressing it up with copper and brass to try and hide that it is actually a "modern" engine in a 1910's looking car. I'm certain that I can make the engine neat looking enough to make a lot of people confused. I also have access to a super low mileage 330 cubic inch 1940's flathead Mack truck six cylinder out of a fire truck, a 530 cubic inch Hercules flathead six out of a fire truck, and a V12 American LaFrance(Auburn Lycoming) fire truck engine. All of these would be Awesome in this chassis, but I want to drive 500 miles without worry of an impossible to find water pump or whatever. Man, what a choice!

 

I'm thinking it would be neat if I could find someone that could cast aluminum wheels that look like the old wooden wheels in the last picture above. I don't trust real wooden wheels not to get loose in a hurry with modern speeds and side stresses. To many of these old cars ended up upside down due to wheel failures on curves in races. Any idea on having wheels cast and machines?

 

Look for pics of Nissan Murano spare tires. It's been a while, but I think they may look like your old disk wheels

 

I like the idea. Going to be one cool machine!

 

I'm no DB expert but that rear spring looks like an aftermarket accessory. Nice looking project, I'll be following the build. Bob

 

I found out that the buggy spring and the top two springs are after market. Originally the two top springs would have curved down very heavily and connected directly to the bottom springs. The aftermarket kit replaced the two top springs with these two that have very little arch and added the buggy springs. I really like the set up. I do think it would look better with a different bar between the top two springs. This one is made of solid 1-3/4 bar stock! I think one with a bit less of an arc with a bit more period correct styling is in order.

 

I believe that spring setup is called a "Platform" check Cadillacs from 1909-1914 or so they used the same deal.

 

without the transverse spring it would be called a 3/4 elliptic springs, what would the official name be with the transverse spring?
If it had a full spring top and bottom it would be a full elliptic springs... just can't remember if there was a special name for the setup with the transverse spring added in.

 

without the transverse spring it would be called a 3/4 elliptic springs, what would the official name be with the transverse spring?
If it had a full spring top and bottom it would be a full elliptic springs... just can't remember if there was a special name for the setup with the transverse spring added in.

 

Was it being used as a truck? As you found out the extra springs are aftermarket. I could probably find the setup a home if you aren't going to use it? I also wish you were closer, I could use those disc wheels, too heavy to ship. I vote for either of the fire truck 6's, no one would ever recognise them.

 

Here is a 1936 Austin Taxi like I used to own. It has cast wheels that look like wooden spokes. Probably WAY too expensive to ship from the UK

Car looks small, but it is pretty big. I think they are called an Austin "12" chassis

 

Cool as snow, Carlisle...I picked up a couple of early Dodge Bros frames, same idea.
One has a reversed-Elliott I-beam front axle, dropped slightly at the outers, and with a dropped center.
Other is conventional Elliott type, I-beam, with a double-drop also, but moreso at the outer ends...because of the conventional king pin bosses.
Which does your chassis have?

Front axle and radiator shell really set the personality of a pre-war racer, (same with wheels) so I'll be using the reverse-Elliott, as so many early Indy cars used them...

 

Here is what the axle looks like if this helps you. It is rather strait across between the springs. It doesn't have the smile that some of the axles have. the big issues that I see here is NO front brakes. Even though I know that living on the edge was what it was all about back then for a racer, but Houston traffic shows no mercy, so I'll have to find a way of adding brakes to the front. I've seen Model t guys add disc brakes, but I don't know how they do it. I think the disc brakes look crummy on this type of car.

 

I plan on using the spring set up because it kind of "makes" the chassis. I don't know if it was ever used as a truck. "Yonahrr" a fellow Hamber has a Dodge chassis that has the same set up on it! He is the guy that is building the giant Seagrave firetruck speedster.

 

Sweet project and a nice start. The 292 should get you down the road.

 

Do you have any idea what size wheels these are? They look the part

 

I had a 1912 AC three wheel delivery with the same style wheels, they were NOT cast, two steel stampings that were welded together. Someone in the UK will come up with the makers name. There were wheels like this here in the USA that were used on Autocar and Oldsmobiles pre 1910. This build turning out to be a great one with all the info getting traded around. Bob

 

sankey. if they sound like a babies rattle when you shake them your in trouble.

 

I know where there's an '03 Autocar with them. I noticed a small groove in the spokes and looked to see how it was "carved" into them and discovered they were steel. They are hollow tubes pressed to look JUST like wooden spokes.

 

You will find a lot of early speedsters & race cars had disc wheels, some had covers to make the spoked wheels look like discs. You have a good looking set of Michelin wheels there that are likely 20". There are tires available that are fairly good since a lot of larger & faster Packards etc. use that size. An advantage would be in that you can hide a disc brake set up behind them if you want & they are safe & true.

The platform spring set up was often used on heavier vehicles that had varying loads. I had a horse drawn milk wagon with the same set up - to haul bottled milk you need a soft ride full or near empty. I also have a 1911 Cadillac with platform suspension - works well. If you worked some shock absorbers & a panhard bar into the great looking suspension you have it would likely be very effective.


1925 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan

 

I'd use the disk wheels, they look good and you can clean them quicker than wires or spoked wheels. Bob

 

I think you could use the disk wheels seeing how it will be lighter than the original. especially if you go with the 292 instead of one of those old monster engines. Good project you have.