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Folks Of Interest The Briggs Cunningham Dream

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Jul 25, 2022.

  1. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
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    Ryan
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    Ryan submitted a new blog post:

    The Briggs Cunningham Dream

    [​IMG]

    Continue reading the Original Blog Post
     
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  2. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,179

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    Nice article on two iconic Americans, Briggs Cunningham and the Corvette.

    We should also never forget those who went before:
    jack vines
     
  3. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
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    Wouldn't it be something if that Wrecked #1 Corvette was still around.....
     
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  4. whoodooman
    Joined: Mar 25, 2013
    Posts: 73

    whoodooman
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    from TEXAS

    “Two of the Corvettes crashed out and the last finished first in class, but only 8th overall.”

    “Only” 8th overall?? Respectfully I think this comment diminishes the genius of Briggs and effort by GM/Duntov to make a “pig” of a car (1960 Corvette performance wise) the 24hrs of Le Mans Class WINNER in its 1st year of competition. I think it’s a given that it’s near impossible to beat 7 other cars in a much faster class. Considering the daunting circumstances this was a major accomplishment and milestone in American racing history.

    P.S. of course the Ford GT40s were better all around race cars but “production” car terms used loosely.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2022
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  5. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
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    *Only* is the term Briggs used as well. He was not happy with the corvettes or the way they finished.
     
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  6. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,488

    noboD
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    Surely, you jest?
     
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  7. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
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    corncobcoupe
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    Being a history buff - finding any automotive survivors motivates me.
    Finding a unrestored survivor "Barn Find" keeps my passion going.
    There are so few.....

    PS - I see your Dodge Brothers Avatar.
    My avatar is the CornCobCoupe 28 3W Dodge.
     
  8. whoodooman
    Joined: Mar 25, 2013
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    whoodooman
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    from TEXAS

    Interesting choice of wording by Briggs given his achievement. I was aware that he scrapped the whole program afterward due to his dissatisfaction with the performance. Thanks for clarifying.
     
  9. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
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    #1 was found a while back… there was a very public legal battle over who owned it and the judge ordered that the proceeds be split after the car was auctioned… It went to the block about 6 months ago and if I remember correctly, it brought just under $700k - pretty cheap for a historical Le Mans car…
     
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  10. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
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    Ryan
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    https://www.experiencelemans.com/contents/en-us/d130_1960_Le_Mans_24_Hours_Competitors_Results.html

    To be fair to Briggs… The only other cars in the GT 5.0 class were the crashed Corvettes.

    Even so, just finishing Le Mans is king of a big deal - especially for a North American team.
     
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  11. lcfman
    Joined: Sep 1, 2009
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    All three cars are accounted for, 2 fully restored and one in the process.
     
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  12. whoodooman
    Joined: Mar 25, 2013
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    whoodooman
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    from TEXAS

  13. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
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    Sorry to come off like a smart ass. I have followed the trail of these three Corvettes for a long time, I guess I thought everyone did. I am wondering about something. All three cars were obtained from the same dealer. Does anyone know if all three were white fuel cars when new? With no trim tag you really can't tell. Are there any pictures when Briggs got them?
     
  14. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
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    The book I read said they were all fully optioned white cars… I don’t, however, have any pics. I will try to hunt some down.

    Also… I’m not convinced Briggs actually bought them. From what I’ve read and been told, he wasn’t super excited about the team… and I have a hard time believing he spent the dough. I’d bet it was a back door deal between Chevrolet and the dealer.
     
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  15. Michael Ottavi
    Joined: Dec 3, 2008
    Posts: 269

    Michael Ottavi
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    The "need for speed" is a very addictive drug and he sure had it. Thanks for a great thread.
     
  16. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
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    The # 1 car above that crashed is actually the #3 car that won class at Lemans. This wreck was at Sebring and the car was repaired in time for the run at Lemans. Good question Doug on whether they were fuel cars- I always assumed they were but not sure. Maybe I have something in my notes. They also ran another car under the Camoradi banner and that car has survived as well. I am pretty sure the #3 car was painted red with white coves and was being used as a daily driver of sorts in St Louis in the 80s(maybe 90s). I think I read Chip Miller found out the VIN numbers and tracked it down and gave the owner like $30,000 which was the going rate at the time. Going off my memory but I think that is what went down. I am not sure I would like to drive a solid axle Vette at a high rate of speed for long hours with what is basically a 1949 Chevrolet chassis. Cool though that they were able to win class.
     
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  17. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
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    I found a note that all three Briggs cars were fuel injected big brake cars with quick ratio steering and had been purchased from Don Allen Chevrolet. I believe they were outfitted with the 37 gallon tanks after the purchase, although it is possible they were "tanker" cars from the factory.
     
  18. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
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    ^^^ everyone thinks of Ferrari great handling but they actually had solid rear axles for many years. First road car with independent rear was 1966. Will need to check their race cars in more detail
     
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  19. Dave Gray
    Joined: Sep 4, 2010
    Posts: 286

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    Yes, all 3 Cunningham cars were injected as well as the # 4 car A581D447-0BAE-426B-B92D-12A373671EFC.png 280BC013-88CA-4F49-9945-1CA4242B3626.jpeg
     
  20. noboD
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    I am just guessing here but wouldn't that prove Chevrolet was involved? 4 white cars with fuel at the same time to one dealer?
     
  21. Ryan
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    I agree. No one on the Cunningham side talks about it, but it would be interesting to know how involved Briggs really was.

    Chevrolet was def. all over it.
     
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  22. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
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    For true. The Ferrari race cars were smaller, lighter, with aluminum engines. They did not win on speed or power, but on the combination and reliability.

    jack vines, who has driven a Ferrari and a Corvette of that vintage and the Corvette is by far the better street car.
     
  23. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
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    Jack Vines thinks a 1960 Corvette is a better car on the street than a 1960 Ferrari GTO? Man… I dunno…

    The Cunningham vettes made 290 horsepower with a race weight of 3300 pounds. Basically, it didn’t have brakes.

    The GTO made 300 horsepower on 2094 pounds with great brakes for the time and one of the most balanced chassis in history.

    I think I’ll take Phil Hill’s word on the matter! :)
     
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  24. jimdillon
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    Doug I believe Chevrolet was involved and surely Duntov assisted and had a hand in the cars being well equipped. As you also may know the AMA's "Gentleman's Agreement" of 1957 (reacting to the horrific Mercedes crash at Lemans in 1955) played a role in Chevrolet going underground to an extent. Add into the equation that GM was under scrutiny at the time for being a monopoly didn't help either. Would have been nice to have someone at the helm of GM that was not a pantywaister.
     
  25. noboD
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    noboD
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    This is the type of thing that should have been in the book Chevrolet Racing? by Van Vulkenburgh
     
  26. Jim Wood
    Joined: Jul 13, 2022
    Posts: 63

    Jim Wood

    Ryan how about a story on Briggs first car the 1927 Packard Roadster he built after working at the proving grounds in Detroit during his college days while getting his engineering degree at Yale. It is in the REVS Museum and in original unrestored condition. I consider it to be the first "Hot Rod, no fenders, front frame mounted headlamps, cud down doors, straight eight, four-wheel brakes and was supposed to have been 120 MPH car.
     
  27. HealeyRick
    Joined: May 5, 2009
    Posts: 573

    HealeyRick
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    from Mass.

    My favorite Cunningham car (along with his Austin-Healey 100S) has to be the Cunnigham C4R-K, possibly the meanest looking car to ever grace a race track. If you're ever in the Naples, FL area, a visit to the Revs Institute to see the Cunningham collection is well worth it.
    [​IMG]
     
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  28. lcfman
    Joined: Sep 1, 2009
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    from tn

    Certainly I believe Duntov was heavily involved but I think Alfred Momo was the Ken Miles of that effort.
     
  29. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
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    Apparently, Duntov wouldn’t allow Momo to touch the motors at all. In protest, Momo tore one down and found it was decent, but didn’t like something about the distributor. Duntov wouldn’t allow him to change it…

    After Le Mans, Cunningham was pissed at Chevrolet and never raced a GM car again. Momo, however, stayed on as his chief mechanic.

    ***

    Again, the most fascinating thing about this story is how golden Chevrolet came out in the end.

    Think about it… Their stated goal was to use factory financing and independent experience to win Le Mans. They thought they had every resource needed to create an earlier version of the success Ford would actually have later with the GT40… and they would be able to do it with zero PR risk due to the racing ban.

    Instead, two cars crashed out and the third was over heating so badly that they had to pack the engine compartment with dry ice just to be quick enough to avoid disqualification for slow lap times.

    They finished over 280 miles behind Ferrari.

    Still, Chevrolet was able to spin it as a successful class win because Americans weren’t knowledgeable enough about Le Mans to know that the Corvettes were essentially in a class of their own (GT 5000)… and the Ferrari that destroyed them was in a “lesser” class (GT 3000).

    And I say all of this as someone that loves Corvettes… and really loves the three Le Mans cars… It’s a great story though… to see how it all went down without the force fed perspective…
     
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  30. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 2,214

    Stan Back
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    from California

    The best car museum I've ever been to (not many), was the Cunningham one in Orange County years ago. Maybe 80 cars or so, every one different in so many ways. And after a couple of hours, you could remember most of them. {Some really strange V-8 60 F-head(?) engine.} No overkill in numbers as was the time I went to Harrah's. Made it thru the first building in a couple hours, wore me down, saw "restorations" that I knew were wrong -- mainly Model As. Plus the "curator" fired up an alcohol-burning 'teen Formula One car and rattled the rafters. Too bad it's gone -- all you guys woulda liked it.
     
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