Customs Air Bags: The Case For And Against

And it doesn't hurt that at least 5 of them are from Austin, TEXAS!

Hah, I just noticed the rest of the post after the picture.

 

" .... plenty of fire left in me." Ha.

Good !!!

 

To begin, I agree with you in that bags have no place on a traditional hot rod.

My sole reason FOR bags is the exact reason you state; drivability. The ability to have your cake and eat it too. I know this from having a traditional car without bags for so long. My 57 Ford has every trick in the book to lower it without bags; leaf springs removed, 3" lowering blocks, reversed shackles... you name it. And it drives like shit, and it has driven like shit for the tens of thousands of miles I've driven it, often pounded on it, in the 16 years I've owned it. It has made my 5 seater essentially a 2 seater since the weight of anything more than a toddler in the back seat causes the car to bottom out. That now means the prospect of enjoying the car with friends is out the window. So too is the prospect of carrying any kind of weight in the trunk, so that's basically useless, too. Even my cooler filled with beer and ice caused notable clearance issues during a car show weekend. I've broken my driveshaft where the original one ate through the floor under the rear seat, and I had to get a new one and recess the floor. I've ground through at least 3 sets of lake pipes. I've also dragged my cruiser skirts more times that I can can count after dislodging them with a huge dip, which sucks when they've got 30+ coats of HOK candy paint on them. One time coming home from Gettysburg, I bottomed out so hard I knocked out 3 fuses in my fuse block, turning off my headlights and dash lights in pitch darkness, 200 miles from home, while still driving at 80 mph. I could go on.

The older I've gotten, the less tolerant I've become of these issues, and I've found myself driving the car less because of them. I took the 3" block out and put 2" blocks in, which has made a world of difference, but the car just doesn't sit as right. Damn it looked good nice and low. So the car I'm building now will have bags, and eventually, so will my '57. If people want to criticize my choices, that's fine. But most of the people so quick to judge usually don't have a car or a clue. I've found that often the people who criticize the loudest usually do so to try to give themselves legitimacy. I'd be proud to have any number of those cars you posted in my garage, and anyone that says otherwise is lying.

 

If today's air bag technology had been available in the '30s through the '50s, the custom guys ALL would have had them. ALL OF THEM.

But here's the rub. They didn't have it. They were building mostly straight axle and leaf sprung cars, or if they were driving a newer car they were trying to figure out ways to get their cars lower. Some experimented with air bags, some with hydraulics. But this was rare, and most of the custom cars we revere today were built buy broke ass kids that built their cars the way a broke ass kid would. They cut the shit out of the frame, bent leaf springs, stepped control arms, torched a coil or two, heated a spring until it sagged, and probably all kinds of even more dangerous things that we would frown on today.

Bags are here to stay, no doubt about it. They're great (even though I don't run them and won't). I'd rather see HAMB discussions centered on traditional - and safe - ways to get these cars lower. Scraping the ground is a whole other subject that I can get on any Truckin' forum. my .02

 

"“lay frame”
I just… don’t get it." R.C.

I need to print out your post to save me having to go over again. I've been preaching that for years. Nobody seems to care though.
My quote is "Lower it and leave it."


I do love low riders though!

 

"bags are for groceries" is a common statement - but, most grocery bags would not last long if dragged across asphalt - yes, have tried most lowering tricks including hydraulics - have bottomed out so hard cruising down the highway that chunks of asphalt ended up onto top battery under the hood - for a while banging and bouncing down the road is fun - majority of rides look best lowered - have not owned a bagged ride, yet - but, would not turn down a good deal on a ride that has them - like most things, just stuffing bags in a ride does not guarantee anything but disappointment - but, if engineered right they can be of a great benefit for many rides-

 

This is a really important point you make. Air bags aside, today we vociferously discourage the very build methods that were utilized to build the cars we hold as the standard bearers. Barris, Hines, Winfield, etc, were not shy with the use of lead, body filler, etc., and some other less talented builders truly employed the "cave and pave" method of doing body work. The game has changed, and the talented guys that metal finish cars are on a level totally unheard of in the "traditional" era. We're (rightfully) encouraging untraditional methods to build traditional cars, why not use untraditional methods to get traditional stance?

 

I worked on heavy duty trucks and trailers for a long time. The company I worked for ordered a new East aluminum dump trailer and we had to talk them into air suspension. It was the first they did and now it's about all they do. The loaded/unloaded ride was always a problem in trucks. A heavy enough suspension to haul the heaviest loads road very rough when empty. They put aid bags on the seats and the cab to ease the ride for the driver but it still beat the life out of the equipment. Air suspension really cut down on suspension problems. It's easy to change a bag if necessary and a spare bag doesn't cost much or take up much room. Since the systems use a valve to set the ride height, you can also tell how much weight is on the axle by the pressure in the bag to hold it at the required height. They come in handy to avoid having to crank up landing gear. Back under the trailer with no air in the bags then inflate to raise the trailer.

They are a good way to get a constant ride height with varying loads. They can also be set up for varying ride heights when a car might bottom out on some roads. I don't know why they aren't used on modern pickup trucks. Old Cadillacs used air shocks. Chevrolet had it available as an option in 59 and 60.

 

I see it this way.
If a vehicle has an appearance of a new millennial style it is not acceptable.
Exposed ifs, rubber band tires, frames that look broke, suspensions that look to be missing shocks and springs and billet shit.
If the car has the appearance of traditional for safety, ride and handling
Then I don’t judge.
I definitely drool over a total period perfect rod or custom. It really does have a lot to do with cost, safety and how much it’s driven.

 

If you truly want the old car experience, it should be done with the low power engines that they came with. To me, hot rodding was and is all about improving everything from power to handling.

 

The air suspension they put on those GM X frame cars to replace the coil springs was not very good. Check out this road test. Skip to 3:04

 

When the first V8 60 was jammed into an A, it wasn't traditional, it built tradition. So what we are doing today, may well be tradition in the future.
No bags for me, but I am building a 40 Chevy with a 632" non-traditional dart blocked bbc. What the heck, just like that first V8 - 60 or 265 sbc, best I can get my hands on.

 

Being an old guy my self an having been deep in to hot rods and custom cars in the 50s as a teen,how I see these things ,is not allways how the younger guys do! Things over time get mess with trends that offten are just ugly to me. Any car that can't be driven as it is=broken an needs fixing...... Too that end,if your ride was too low to drive,in too drive way of our Car Hop Drive Inn=You were not cool,just stupid. What I'm trying to say is,cars with less then about 3in.+ of road clear,looked like owner was stupid an that made car ugly. But as time moved on,some not too smart guy some were,desided a car that looked undrivible,broken,stuck in the mudd or tires had all gone flat,looked good to him???? Then came his buddy to think the same way ???? I'm still going too pass on airbag broken look.
Eye of the time,if you wish to repete the cool stuff,don't screw it up !!!

 

Good point Ryan. I really don’t think that point was really ever brought up.
You need to add that to our credo.

 

Been here done that 2 threads locked as soon as the dicusion gets good. the hisotry of the pre 65 full bagged customs will forever have less proof than big foot.

 

whenever I see a bagged 49-51 Chevy "laying frame" what I want to see is the trunk. in my humble opinion if you open the trunk and see the ground you have failed. I've seen finished cars without a trunk floor. the thing that kills me is people put the tallest whitewalls they can get then have to tub the car or the tires will hit the upper wheelwells. I did the trunk floor and tubs in a 51 for a buddy. many many hours and $$$ so the car will be 2" lower than with the original trunk and wheelwells. in my world a car with 4" between the rocker and the pavement looks better than one flat on the ground.

the fact that if they had bags back then they would have used them doesn't mean they would look any less lame than the frame layers we have today.

 

I'm an old guy and never had, or ever will have bags on my cars. Just my opinion, but it doesn't bother me that someone else has them. If I open a thread and it's about air bags, I just close the thread and move on. No commentary, just move on, same as I would at a car show. Not sure what the big deal is about them......

 

To a point this is true but there is no denying the quality and safety of builds is a far more important factor today than at the time we are trying to emulate. How many "I found this old hot rod/custom" threads have we seen where to a man everyone say fix such and such a safety issue (often a poorly designed suspension item) and then drive it. If someone posted a build thread on here today to the same standards as a lot of cars were built back in the day they would be eviscerated.

 

IMG_5716 by KFC posted Feb 27, 2018 at 3:45 PM

I took the bags off mine, static drop now. Once the novelty of dropping it right down wore off I rarely touched the hieght.

Plus I think a car can be ruined by being to low

 

Back in my mini truck days I had a low rider blazer , that was so low I used to roll pop can down the street with my front bumper.all static suspension mono leafs dropped a arms dropped spindles springs etc.

Had a sticker on the back that read

ADJUSTABLE SUSPENSION IS FOR PEOPLE WHO FEAR COMMITMENT!!!!

 

For me, this type of discussion falls into two camps. The JJ is outstanding at maintaining and preserving the spirit/history of hot rods and custom cars – as they were “in the day”. So, I think of it as No. 1, the JJ focuses on the cars and when it comes to discerning what should be allowed on the site, decisions are made by the physical cars (i.e., is this build something that would have occurred back “in the day”). Nothing wrong with that. In fact, that’s pretty awesome. For me, there is a No. 2. And that’s focusing on the people and the living “hot rod spirit” (instead of the cars). That is, for example, hot rodders back in the day took low cost, light weight cars and upgraded them with modern (for the time) engines and other go-fast goodies - new off the shelf manifolds, wheels, engines, etc. So, for me, the rub comes in straddling the line between 1) allowing the cars that would have been built back in the day on the JJ and 2) also allowing the thriving hot rodding spirit to express itself. We can be sure that if LS engines were available in 1955, every serious 32 coupe would have been running one.

Not sure if I explained that well. And I’m not sure what is the preferred approach. You can’t argue with success and the JJ is the most successful car related community I have participated in over the decades(s). I have a traditional build that I hang out on the JJ to inspire. I have a 2015 car I’m building and participate another site for that. And I have a vintage truck (not hot rod) that I hang out on another site.

 

I see air bags as a staple for the custom crowd and although I don't own a custom I do appreciate the work and time involved in their construction, I for one am glad there is a place for them here on the hamb and applaud the administrations willingness to bend the rules where there is a obvious gray area. HRP