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Technical 11" Mopar E-brake Cable Problem

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by GaryS, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    I converted my 8-3/4 Mopar rear end to 11" brakes and I'm having difficulty finding an emergency brake cable that fits on the left side. The car is a '56 Plymouth and nearly everything has to be custom made, so I'm used to things like that!

    The stock left-side cable is about 37", and I have a new one of those. Total cable length could be accommodated with a modified bracket, but the coil return spring on the stock cable is about a half-inch too short for the larger brakes.

    A call to Raybestos tech support did no good. I asked if they had a data base available with dimensions for their cables that I could manually research, but was told there was nothing online and hinted that I should not waste their time. Apparently, all they could do was select parts by vehicle application.

    I suppose I could order another long cable from a '66-'70 B-body, like the one I used on the right side. I could salvage the longer spring and
    use a shorter housing with a new ball, and cut to match the right side cable, but it would be nice to have something stock that fit without modifications.

    Anyone else run into this problem?
     
  2. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    Black_Sheep and Frankie47 like this.
  3. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,348

    gatz
    Member

    I installed a '67 Dodge Coronet rear for the car in the avatar.
    The right side cable on the Coronet was indeed much longer; long enough to go to the left side frame rail.
    I had to make parts to adapt to the stock Chrysler E-brake cable and keep the assembly on the left side.

    Also, the right cable was difficult to move..all gummed up.
    So I chucked the ball-end of the cable in a drill, held it up high, and fed penetrating oil down the cable & sheath until it moved freely.

    Somewhere I read that Ford Ranger PUs had the cables end up with the evener on the left; not centered.
     
  4. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    All the C-bodies I found in the Rockauto catalog had a long cable on each side and met close to the transmission. Ditto for the Imperials. However, there are so many models and configurations to check that I could easily have missed one that would work. That's why I was hoping Raybestos had a chart that I could research, like the shock absorber manufacturers do.
    The stock '56 Plymouth has a long cable on the right side that clips to the axle housing, then across the differential, to a bracket by the front spring shackle. There it connects with an equalizer and an intermediate cable that follows the frame on the left side and meets the cable from the brake mechanism near the transmission mount cross member.

    Both my project car and the parts car I bought were missing most of the cables, or they were cobbled together, so I don't have any precise info about location, nor can I find good pictures of the cables installed in the stock location. The fact that so much of my car has been customized mechanically only adds to the confusion.
     
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  5. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    I've been looking at other manufacturers too, but so far no luck. I think the entire problem centers on the 11" brakes that require a longer spring inside the drum. I found several shorter cables that would reach the bracket mount, but none with a longer spring. If Wagner listed their dimensions on the Rockauto info sheet, they might have something that fits, but they have even less information than Raybestos.
     
  6. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,348

    gatz
    Member

    The return spring in the '67 Coronet is fairly long.
    I don't have a dimension, but I could check it out tomorrow if that will help.
    And get the drum size too.

    This is the LEFT side, before it was cleaned up.

    Dodge rearend brake ay, LEFT side_3a.jpg

    gatz
     
  7. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    The cable I ordered, thinking it would work is supposed to be for a '66-'70 B-body, but it's apparently for 10" brakes. If you have 11" drums, it might be that you also have an older part number cable on your car, and it could be obsolete. I appreciate your offer to check...and thank you!
     
  8. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    FWIW, I checked a '66 parts manual and found only two left side cables listed. One is used on B bodies and another on C-bodies and Imperials. 11" brakes were optional on taxis, police, and towing packages, but cables are not listed as part of any package, so nothing was clarified by the parts manual.
     
  9. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,348

    gatz
    Member

    The brakes on the 67 Coronet rear are 10"

    67 Coronet 10in Drum.JPG

    and, as near as I can tell using a bent wire, the spring is approx 4 1/2" installed.
    So, it may be 5" or more in the relaxed state

    67 Coronet E-Brake Return Spring_1.JPG
    I'm just wondering if the cables would be the same for an 11" drum.

    I made these retainers to ensure the cable doesn't come out of the backing plate;

    67 Coronet E-Brake Cable Retainer.JPG
     
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  10. Droopydogg
    Joined: Jun 8, 2018
    Posts: 2

    Droopydogg

    Try looking at a 70’s p/u or Ramcharger...many of those had 11” rear brakes


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    classiccarjack likes this.
  11. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    Gatz, thanks for checking. Those are the short springs. The longer ones are about 6".
     
  12. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    Droopydogg. Yes, the older truck cables have longer springs, but the left cable is longer as both cables run down the middle.
     
  13. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    Looks like my options are narrowing, and I might have to modify the cable I have, but thanks everybody!
     
  14. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 24,556

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You should be able to have a new end stop (ball) swagged on the cable if you get a longer cable that fits the 11 inch brakes.
    Checking Rock Auto they show a lot of park brake cables but don't distinguish between 10 and 11 inch brakes and it seems to be either/or /if on Mopar as far as rear drum size goes. Remembering back to my brake work days you never assumed what a mopar had on it when one came in for brake jobs if they were between mid 60's and mid 70's.
     
  15. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    Are there any old-time brake/alignment shops in your area? Maybe one without a computer and lots-o-books?

    .
     
  16. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,344

    classiccarjack
    Member

    The trucks also put the cables on the left side. If you would like me to go look, I can see if my 1972 D100 has them that way. I do believe it has 11" drums... And it definitely has a 8 3/4" in her...

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  17. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    Classiccarjack, Thanks...I appreciate any info I can get. I have a '73 D100 with the towing package that has the cables routed in the middle, however, it also has the aux gas tank that is mounted on the left side, so maybe that affects the cable location. As Mr48chev said, if it's a Mopar you can expect anything!
     
  18. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,122

    gene-koning
    Member

    OK, so what am I missing? The original 56 Plymouth had the e brake on the end of the trans, it was the drum the original drive shaft connected to. As far as I remember the Mopar E brakes were all the drums on the trans until 59 or 60. There were no cables to the drums for either side.

    You are going to need to get a pair 11" brake e cables, and adapt them to work on your car. You will probably need all 3 of the modern e brake cables, one from each wheel, and the center cable that connects both of those together. Then you will need the "Y" metal piece that hooks over the center cable and attaches to the cable from your parking brake lever on your car. You may even need the cable "amplifier" (for lack of the proper term) Dodge used on trucks because the e brake drum on your 56 Plymouth was only a 6" or 7" drum and that cable likely won't have enough pull length to activate your 11" drum rear brakes.

    I might suggest you see if you can collect the entire e brake system for a mid 70s Dodge truck with 11" brakes and install the entire set up in you Plymouth. Gene
     
  19. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    Gene, I left off a lot of info in the original post by wrongly assuming that most cars are extensively modified by the time they get to this forum, and I apologize for that.

    My project was purchased as a cancer-eaten rolling shell that should have become a donor car, but it was my intent to forge ahead with the build, and to keep it all Mopar while customizing, and mechanically upgrading for performance, safety, reliability, and availability of parts. It was originally a V8, three-speed manual and now has a '66 318 and console-shifted aluminum TorqueFlite, with a '70 B-body rear end.

    My parts car was a butchered Fury with no engine or transmission, and an E-body rear end. At some point it had been converted to rear e-brakes using the original brake handle. Now, everything related to braking is bent, broken and/or terminally rusted on both cars. Not even the handles were salvageable.

    I converted to new 11" drums and front discs, with a foot-operated e-brake pedal from an Aspen. The goal was to find new, readily available cables, and I found one for the right side. Also, no problem with the front cable, or the intermediate cable, as there are several that will work, but so far I can't find a stock part for the left rear. Raybestos has no interest in helping identify what would work, so at this point I guess I will have to modify something. I already have a new cable that is perfect, except for the return spring coil length.

    I can buy a longer cable to provide the correct spring, and use the jacket/shield from my shorter cable. The only issue is that I would have to crimp a new steel ball, or barrel, on the stainless cable. If I had an expensive hydraulic crimper, or if we had an old fashion brake shop nearby to crimp it for me, that's the way I'd go.

    Today I'll try to locate a brake shop that can do that for me.

    Sorry for the confusing information!
     
  20. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,122

    gene-koning
    Member

    GaryS, Been there, done that. 1st car I built was a 35 Dodge 2 door sedan. The only thing I got with the good title was a pile of rusty sheetmetal. We drove that all Mopar built car 66,000 miles in 5 years. The coupe in my avatar was just a body shell attached to a different chassis. I fully understand creating and making things work.

    OK, let me see if I am understanding you correctly. You are wanting to use the axle cables that come up on both sides of the frame, then you want the intermediate cable to connect with both axle cables, one on each side of the frame. Is that the correct picture?

    You have a right side cable that has is for the 11" brakes, but all the left side cables you can find for the 11" brakes are too long? Is the cable length of the right side you have the same length as you need for the left side? Can you use another right side cable (like the one you already have) on the left side as well? It shouldn't matter which side a cable operates.

    Also, a Dakota uses brake cables on each side with an intermediate cable that attaches to them on up to at least the 96 model yeaar. I don't believe 11" rear brakes were available on Dakotas (unless the 04 & newer had them), but the intermediate cable length (on 88-96 model years) was determined by the truck wheel base, and there were 3 different wheel bases (thus 3 different cable lengths to choose from). If you are having an issue with cable lengths, its possible you can make up the difference with a different intermediate cable from a different Dakota wheel base. Gene
     
  21. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    Gene, the '70 B-body rear end has heavy clip on the axle housing that secures the long right-side cable, where it crosses over parallel to the axle and attaches to a bracket about two feet in front of the left rear tire, so I decided to use what the factory provided for the B-body. The short left-side cable attaches to the same bracket, and the ball ends attach to an equalizer. From that point, the choices for intermediate and forward cable are numerous and both are adjustable, so I chose routing everything down the left side for simplicity.

    It's kind of hard to explain, but if you are curious about seeing how extensively I've managed to screw up my project, I write a blog about my trials and tribulations with the Plymouth. It's not a show car or a hotrod, and I'm not a talented, builder, but it's been mostly fun...so far. https://56plymouth.blogspot.com/
     
  22. fordrodsteven
    Joined: Apr 1, 2017
    Posts: 96

    fordrodsteven
    Member

    I needed a cable for my OT car. There is not one available for this car any longer. I was able to go to Rock auto and look at their information on multiple cables and I was able to come up with a cable to make my E-brake work perfectly. You can find lengths of cables, lengths and diameters of cable sleeves/jackets and see what the cable ends look like. It was a bit of work but well worth it to get a working part where the cable I wanted is completely obsolete and not available anywhere!
     
  23. GaryS
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 90

    GaryS
    Member

    Steven, I spent hours searching Rock auto without success, but I think I've made my choice. I'll order one of the long cables and use the parts I need, along with my correct length cable jacket, to make what I need. I found a mechanic in a big local shop that says he can swage the ferrule, so I'll give him a chance to try. I'll have to order a few ferrules and balls and so far the only source I've found sells them in lots of 1000 or more, but small quantities should be available somewhere.
    Thanks everyone!
     
  24. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,122

    gene-koning
    Member

    Our local farm implement store had the swage cable ends in a kit for something like $5 a few years ago, they were in the rope and cable area. I Haven't looked recently, they may or may not be available anymore. I may have a package hanging on my pegboard someplace. Gene
     

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