0 to 200 mph in 1.5 years.... Step 1 - ummmm, metalshapes?

Rules for Competition Coupe say you need a minimum vertical winshield height of 5". And that the front and rear chop shal be equal. Gives no limit for maximum chop besides the 5" vertical windshield. And I beleive they do allow for it to be layed down.

Altered Coupe rules state that pre-49 bodies may be chopped. The chop shall be equal front to rear and must retain a vertical windshield height of at least 6" above the top of the cowl with a maximum horizontal length of 7" from the base of the windshield at the center of the car.

The gas coupe class only allows for a 3" chop of pre-49 vehicles, and dosn't allow for streamlined noses or bellypans.

This is all form the 2004 rulebook.

 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have my SCTA rule books handy, but from memory, the rules will only allow for a three-inch chop. Anytime you see a Vintage Coupe competing for a record with a radical chop that's along the lines of the old Pierson Brothers coupe, it was allowed to run because it was built many years ago and grandfathered in by the Tech crew.

It's my understanding that the reasoning for the three-inch chop limit is to keep the cars looking like what they actually are - old cars - without becoming distorted as contemporary Funny Cars have.

The above also applies to radically laid-back windshields. Since they are an obvious aerodynamic advantage, they are forbidden unless the mods were done a long time ago.

http://www.roadsters.com/



[/ QUOTE ]

I guess they changed the rules BACK to read that you can chop the shit out of your car... in the Competition Coupe & Sedan class... The minimum windshield height is 5"... and there is nothing about the chop itself other than it must be the same "front and back".

Sam.

 

I can see it now... mass HAMB invasion of Bonneville, HAMBers from all over the world show up to cheer on Kevin & Ryan. Tman gets banned from the salt flats, fined by the Department of the Interior for digging a pit to cook a pig. The next year we have to find a different host hotel...
Too bad you guys are going to drive the car back home, could sell raffle tickets, after you guys break 200 could pull the engine & draw the winning raffle ticket.

 

Jeff Kugel told me that it takes just about 600 hp to go 200 mph in a highboy roadster. Your estimate for 800 hp to make the coupe go that fast is certainly in the ballpark. By the way, that 260 mph record looks like somewhere between 1300-1700 hp in that car...... whew!! (Might be why most of the really serious racers are using newer body styles.....)

 

[ QUOTE ]
but like Manuel on Fawlty Towers, "I know naaathing."


[/ QUOTE ]

That was probably lost on most folks, Nads...

[ QUOTE ]
Rules for Competition Coupe say you need a minimum vertical winshield height of 5". And that the front and rear chop shal be equal. Gives no limit for maximum chop besides the 5" vertical windshield.

[/ QUOTE ]

I interpret rules for a living (not race rules, but same premise) - always interpret rules to best suit your needs! Just gotta convince the tech inspectors!

 

Well said Ernie, most stuff is open to negotiation (interpretation) but you got to know the facts to back up your interpretation and also be prepared to go through it all again if you run a record and someone protests against you. But hey that can be a fun as well. I think the key to it all is not to become way to serious about it all. If you can't get it seen the way you see it then so be it! Geoff aka Whodaky

 

The "Super Stude" passed tech on our first try but not without a couple of tense moments. It was for things that were not in the rule book. One of them was that we overdid the in car fire surpression system. They recomended we block off part of it as we had so much that it would take all the oxygen out of the driving area. Another hit was the water tank that I built in place of a radiator. They wanted us to add an unloading valve like a home hot water heater has. The thought was that if the engine blew a head gasket or a similiar failure and the water in the system superheated, this valve would unload the pressure faster. There was nothing in the rule book about either of these problems.
The tech inspectors do work with the racers. They want you to run but they want to make sure the car is safe. They are not concerned with the car meeting the class requirements. That all comes up after the record runs.

Information about building and running the "Super Stude","Just Glad to be Here"at Bonneville at http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/temp-pictures/hooley-2004.html

 

I being a closet REALIST- see a slight glitch in this plan.........
It has to do with the 800 Hp and DRIVING it there and GOING 200MPH.
I'd suggest these cures......
5-6 speed transmission
lower HP expectations to about SIX HUNDRED[read that-LONGEVITY- driveability needed for a 2000 mile road trip in the summer heat]
AND gearing- that Hot and engine would be miserable in the lower rpm ranges I'd suspect right?maybe a set of 3-73 gears for the trip and drop in the 2.0-2.47 at the salt?
Im still in as help as I see this as do able and want to be a small part???? R WE still friends?/Kenny

 

[ QUOTE ]
LONGEVITY- driveability needed for a 2000 mile road trip in the summer heat

[/ QUOTE ]

It is only 1262 miles to the Motel 6 parking lot from the KC area.

 

WZJUNK-WHAT cu in chevy did you end up running?

 

This a very exciting, if daunting, project. Some random observations about body shape:

1. Obviously aerodynamics will be super important if you are to get close to your 200 MPH goal.

2. In my opinion there has never been a better job of aero-modifying a Model A coupe than the Chrisman car. Kevin's sketch indicates that you know this and are thinking along those lines.

3. I would think that the first thing to do with the rulebook is to determine how close you could come to copying the Chrisman car's body exactly -- do the current rules limit you to a lesser chop, or a less laid-back windshield, for example?

4. I think that the So-Cal '34, in at least one of its incarnations, had the top chopped more in the back than in the front. This gives you a pseudo-fastback profile, but is now forbidden by the "same chop front and back" provision. I'm just wondering is there are any other sneaky ways of improving the profile and the abrupt dropoff at the back of the coupe roof.

5. Where I'm going is to express a concern that your basic starting recipe (Model A coupe body, 200 MPH, driven to Bonneville) may not compute -- IF you are permitted to chop it enough to go fast, for instance, can you see well enough to drive it across country?

I would merely suggest that, until your interpretation of the rules is defined, that the 200 MPH and the Model A components of the recipe remain flexible. Is it OK if the A can only go 180? Would you change to a Crosley sedan if it would get you back to 200? Like that.

About the belly pan/floorboard/seat height tradeoff: Since Keith Tardel did what you were first speaking about, and you know Keith, why not just ask him how his car's floor was viewed by the tech inspectors?

By the way, Keith Weesner's sketch, shown earlier, is based on a real car. See page 293 in Morty's Hop Up reprint (or Feb '53 Hop Up, p. 11), captioned "Walker-Rounds" although the cowl is lettered "Thurman and Herzog". I recall that this car was shown on the cover of a Fawcett 75c book of the same era, larger and in color in a more nearly profile view.

Great project! Godspeed!

 

Although I had very little to do with the engine, it was a version of the 400 small block with about 406 CI. Next years engine will be the same cubic inch but a different design or combination of parts, with more power and a higher RPM redline. We are planning on runs in the 240 to 250 MPH range.

We are currently studying photographs of the car at speed and it appears the rear is lifting. Hooley is finishing the new full roll pan and we are going to change the rear wing some. This spring I am going to clean up the front end for better air flow.

Information on building and racing the "Super Stude" at Bonneville http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/temp-pictures/hooley-2004.html

 

Ryan-Kev,
I prob know the least about this area of acar than any other.
I can only relate what I do know -in terms of relativity.....
I have only ben to 140 MPh in a car I built myself.
It was a no tech street car with a slightly built 327.
It had a 3/4 cam[that dates this] and stock AFB carb and dual exhaust.
probably around 325 HP
tires were bias street tires prob rated at 90 MPH!!
the rear gear was 3:73
car weighed around 3000 lbs
trans was a three speed with O/D
My point here is this.....if that POS I built ran 140 and climbing when I let off... .
why wouldn't a 600 LB lighter car with less frontal drag area /a lower profile ,with 600 Hp make the up other needed 61 MPH? Im just talkin out my ass!
Talk amongst youselves......
BTW=what will a comp 31 Cpe car weigh with the ballast needed????

 

Remember that Bonneville is an altitude track and robs hp like crazy. The plus side is that the thin air is easier to push a car through but it is not close to an even trade.

 

Kenny, going back to the post a month or so ago about top speed. You probably werent going 140 even though the speedo read that.

 

You know, I was just looking at this drawing by 296V8 and thimking about cooling.



Instead of running a rear radiator, why not run a front radiator with a shell reminiscent of a 30/31 (or modify a 32 shell to fit within the confines of the nose). Then make an aero nose that would dzus fasten over the flat sides of the shell. That way you have good reliable cooling for the street without having to experiment and you have the aerodynamics for the salt. You could add some removable or hinged panels to the hood sides to aid in the removal of hot air. Just some thoughts.

Chris

 

Tdude ,Now are you an expert on speed AND pigs?
-I was racing a NEW 351 C Torino that couldnt pass me-on a straightaway between Brookfield and Marceline,Mo.-8 miles]
I broke the speedometer cable off....at[120speedo] and it climbed another 10-15 MPH so you tell me how fast that is

 

The way Loogy describes the fitment of a nose over a grille shell is how we did it on our race car. Our car was originally built with a '32 shell and the nose I built later. I came up with idea of fitting the nose over the grille as the easiest way of running a nose with out major work to the front of the car to locate a nose. The beauty of the deuce shell is the raised lip it has at the back, so the nose locates up against that and we just screw the nose on. I did weld blocks into the inside of the grille shell that could be drilled and taped. The nose is always taken off the car when being transported, because all the clearance around the axle etc are so close.
Got to scan some photos so I will post them on a separate post to show how I did it Geoff aka Whodaky

 

The nose project I began one Xmas, so there were no shops or businesses open, so I worked with what I had on hand. Hence the way I used the Aluminium pieces to construct the nose (9 pieces in all for the main upper piece This nose was completely hammered over a lead shot bag, I never had an English Wheel at the time. But like they say, whatever works. Also I came to the conclusion I didn't need a wooden buck, as the mounted grille shell formed the basis as a buck and cardboard gave me the vertical and horizontal profiles.
The nose was done is 4 pieces a main upper piece and a smaller lower piece, with to very small fill in pieces around the spring and tie-rod (these are hard to see in the image of the painted nose as they mount from the inside of the nose). The lower section mounts first then the upper section is fitted and the 2 smaller sections added.
I ain't no Ron Covell, but I was pretty pleased what I achieved with the build of the nose for our race car.
Geoff aka Whodaky ( I hope you guys don't mind all the words and images)

 

That nose is bad ass. Very nice work....

This post is awesome, hell this whole series is killer...

I can't wait... I guess I'll be visiting the Salt in 2006..

 

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, Keith Weesner's sketch, shown earlier, is based on a real car. See page 293 in Morty's Hop Up reprint (or Feb '53 Hop Up, p. 11), captioned "Walker-Rounds" although the cowl is lettered "Thurman and Herzog". I recall that this car was shown on the cover of a Fawcett 75c book of the same era, larger and in color in a more nearly profile view.

Great project! Godspeed!

[/ QUOTE ]

This Faucett book?
.

 

Ryan and Kev,
Heres a link to some math stuff for drag, traction, etc,etc calculations. The site is for a 275 mph electric salt flat car but the calculations apply to all. Might not be worth a hoot to ya all but you might find some interesting thoughts there. http://www.canosoarus.com/04LSRcar/LSR04.htm

 

Tommy, thank you, that is the book I remembered. Obviously I was mistaken about the color picture on the cover, but there are three pictures of the Thurman/Herzog/Voigt coupe inside: On pp 31, 69 and (pre-paint)77. I've never quite understood the sharp rear corner on the top of this coupe -- it's quite different from the way Keith drew it -- but maybe it would make sense to Dr Kamm. Sorry my scanner is out of order, so I can't post these pictures.

 

loogy
That’s kinda what I was thinking. Except, what if you had two nose’s, one with a grill and one without. You could have dual cooling systems on board. Radiator for street and big water tank for the salt / lakes. Get to the flats – change nose’s – fill water tank and close valves to street system – install wheels and tires – swap fuel system, Fuel? – open exhaust.................................!
Can somebody put some color and stuff on that thing I drew?
Greg

 

What's dimensions of a Model A? A Model Y will get you a car with a narrow grille and a body about 4'x4'.

 

Ryan = have you considered an LS1 of LS6 motor with a 6 speed? A few mods and you could have some serious light weight power. Those motors are awesome

good luck - this gives us all something to dream about