Hi Tod love your work and have watched this since 2011 I am sure you have studied both A and B blocks for there advantages and disadvantages more then most people I would like to know what the main bearing bolt spacing is on your blocks I am hoping it is enough to machine for both tunnel sizes and are you doing a new rear main bearing cap ?? Colin
Well I'd take a crate of 10 or so if I can shift 'em... I have a few B cranks to pop in there if the cap centres were right.
What an achievement. I hope it all works out for you in the best possible way. All that hard work and you're a fellow RUSH fan too, doesn't get any better! I'd bet you would have freaked if they were playing Anthem as they poured. (click on Anthem) If your taking count, I'd be interested in a block too. Keep up the spectacular work, Chris
Thanks. Yep, RUSH stands alone. Then I'll take Pink Floyd. For metal, I'll take Iron Maiden, Metallica, and Scorpions. To play along with and write my own stuff I prefer blues. I really should take a count of interested buyers to see how many a first run would be. I'll bet it's north of 25. From here out, I will only be posting updates and answering posts on this forum, by PMs, and emails. I have set up a new email account just for this project so please note that private conversations of greater length can be had at [email protected]. Tod
Glad to see you have decided to focus on one place to keep us updated. I was having a hard time keeping up with all three threads. Again great work and truly, the best of luck to you in this endeavor.
Hey Tod, 'I'll bet north of 25' I'll predict..... that your eye balls will pop ...when you see how many are in line for your creation....if it is genuine/good as can be ! I'm not sure you realize that there are many thousands of A/B lovers / users worldwide ! They are JB welding/stitching, etc together old Henry iron, for decades...just waiting for 'THE ONE' to show up with durable/high grade goods. Are you 'THE ONE'
I'm starting to realize that. I had a 2.5 hour meeting with one of my local builders, who builds motors for Snyder's, and he was excited about the block and the potential. After showing him how I would make the pattern mods to make A or B crank differences, and 5 main journals, we got to discussing how to make the center main cap with pins, or some kind of register, to make for better placement. My only question in that regard is how will purists react to it? As I laid awake half of tonight mapping out a plan, I wondered if altering the design even a little and making my own registering or pinned caps would hurt sales. Obviously, I can still machine it for stock caps, without any way of registering the center cap, leaving everything as is, except that it would have the new appearance of variety of application. Is that a good idea? I don't know. I need some opinions here. If any of you guys on the Ford Barn want to post this query over there I will watch the discussion. I will also gladly accept email input. Tod
I might be going down a wrong path here, but with your expertise could you also cast a crank and offer the lower performance minded guys an affordable option?
Yes, I can, and have, cast cranks. Are you talking about 3 main or 5? I would have to have info on what would sell. I would also need a crank grinder to work with to get product out. My foundry can pour just about any ferrous metal so all we would need is the ideal alloy, a design, and enough commitments to warrant even turning on the CAD software (it's usually on anyway as I work on other stuff, but you get the idea). But, what about the main cap idea? Pins anyone? Tod
I don't think you have anything to worry about from the purists as regards to the inside of the engine. MANY "show" cars have internal changes. On the Fordbarn questions and answers about inserts, cams, full pressure, etc. come up all the time. If the outside casting looks like the original block you can have full reign with the inside. Remember that now if a person wants a number matching engine for his car he has to grind down the pad on the rebuild and stamp it to match his old engine. With yours that would not be necessary. I see sales from restoration purists for you due to that fact alone.
That's good to know. I will be machining the pad and can even stamp the number for customers. I have the sample block in one of my CNCs right now ready to start metal removal so I can do a more accurate sizing inspection. I talked with Kevin Prus Jr. yesterday about a plan to make the most basic product that will serve the widest market. He seemed to agree that B capable internals (including allowance for 2" cam bearings, as John asked me for) would not hurt sales at all. All the enlargements are covered up anyway, except one of the center main cap bolt heads. Tod
I think your true market is going to be the banger racers or non purist. Guys spend a lot of time and money to modify stock engines for inserts and pressure oiling. I know after I blow up my latest stocker I will be building a pressurized and inserted motor. I would much rather use a awesome new block with the improvements rather than a modified stocker. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Hello to all; just adding my 2 cents worth of opinion here - referring to Tods' question in post #103 regarding the Model A' Ford "purist" of those among us, and sometimes a B' too! We now have forged connecting rods, Burlington crank shafts, stainless valves and hardened seats, insert bearings & Chevy 283 pistons, new cylinder heads - water pumps - manifolds and every other engine accessory ever thought of. There are now radial tires & reproduction wheels, replacement transmissions - radiators - windshields & running boards.... Epoxy primers & 2 part enamel paints, TIG welded fender lips & patch panels that don't fit , and we still pursue the dream of excellence when talking about the 80 year old vehicles we enjoy playing with! So, with all these parts and improvements in technology available to us, why do so many with a "purist" attitude look down on those who wish to make a subtle change in the performance of their Model A - from a Flat Head Ted brake adjuster to insert bearings or hardened valve seats????? How would the "purist" feel if he were banned from showing his restored car or even just enjoying a local weekend cruse with other "purists" if someone happened to leak the fact that he had installed hardened seats in his otherwise stock looking engine!!!! Tod is offering something to all of us that has never been available before (least wise not in the last 50 to 60 years) and whether you have constructive or negative criticism of his new block, we can all gain from his improvements; pinned main caps, B' size main journals, bronze cam bearings, thicker decks and streamlined porting, full pressure oiling with better materials & casting techniques, CNC machining of the blocks for standardization and the consolidation of all the newer products on the market - and a rear main that does not leak! Baskin & Robbins offers 31 flavors of ice cream; pick & choose, mix & match - take yours in a cup or a cone with sprinkles or a cherry - it's all great (some better than others) and for every one of these new engines that is completed, there is a strong possibility that an untouched / original engine just might end up being for sale to someone that that professes to be a "purist", even if only in his heart. I congratulate Tod on his 1st casting and commend him in his undertaking - it is going to be monumental (both for him and us) and if he is successful; it will change the Model A' hobby FOREVER!
Sounds reasonable to me, but then again I don't own a model A, yet. Sure have looked hard at a few, but my money has always found its way back into the business. I think we will be able to make just about everyone happy. Those who don't want to go in the direction of one of my blocks can do so with my blessing and full support. People can do what they want. It's their hobby and car, so I certainly won't begrudge them spending money to please themselves. Today I took a light dry skim cut off of the deck to see how things looked. So far, so good. After I shut the machine down I set a Snyder's 5.5 to 1 head on to see how it looked. Wow! Gotta tell ya - my arm hurts from patting myself on the back. But seriously, it looks fine. I'll flip it over, measure and cut the pan rail, then flip it over to finish the deck parallel and to thickness, plus maybe ten or twenty thousandths. I just might even take a picture and send it to the 3 people who have asked to be kept informed. I sure hope I can sell at least 4 of these! Tod
Once again congratulations Tod just one other thought would it be posable to put in a AR that is early model A cam (5 bearing ) this would be an advantage to overhead valve conversion guys just a thought but deserves some discussion here at this stage?
I like all of the discussion above. Pin all of the mains, 5 cam bearings, larger cam bearing capability, B main bolt spacing. You have the machine capacity, how about steel main caps instead of cast? Provisions for a full diameter thrust bearing insert on the rear main? 98% of model A / performance banger enthusiasts don't mind reliability improvements to these engines. As long as the outside looks like the originals. 1% will nit pick the flaws of the castings because they are not identical to the factory units ( Ford Barn), and the other 1% don't care what they look like as long as they hold up better then the factory ones do when dealing with higher HP demands (HAMB). I would say your biggest obstacle is bringing it in at a cost that they can justify your casting over using an old factory block. I'm not saying it has to be the same price as a good core. I saying the value has to be there. Improvements in your block that would cost someone a lot of money to incorporate into a factory block. .
I would like to add another thought in regards to the casting thickness around the ports. Any chance there is extra material here to allow moving the location of the valves closer to the bores? Or perhaps a provision for 4 intake ports instead of the Siamese ports on the stock block? A guy can dream can't he? .
427designer has displayed the "Patience of Job" for persevering in the face of all the 'Nit-Pickers', 'Kibbitzers', 'Elbow-Bumpers', etc in the above thread(my self included!), most of whom will never place an order! That there was a need for such a product(possibly series of products?) has been aptly demonstrated! Now that he's seen the response, how's about backing off, give him some breathing room, & let him get on with it! All, of course, with our serious thanks for "finding a need, & filling it!"
I was thinking about offering billet steel caps, pinned. I don't see why a full thrust is a problem. Tod
Right. And to your AR question - I just naturally assumed that when I went with 5 mains the 5 cam journals are automatic. Or are you talking about 5 cam journals and 3 crank journals? Tod
That stuff will require additional core boxes (not an issue if there are enough buyers). I don't think you are dreaming. Reality is already here. Making alternate offerings isn't hard at all. I just have to warrant my cost with orders. Eventually I hit a line where only so many offerings are cost effective. Right now, I want to start with the widest possible offering and I can work from there. And Crazy, I'm still trying to decide if I want to sell you a block or not. Heh, heh. Tod
Please...take a break and count to ten/whatever! These guys ARE serious and ARE buyers, I'd lay money on that ! Tod IS ASKING for ALL INPUT and is like a sponge...taking it in !! I think that he will decide when he has had enough remarks/input and needs 'breathing room'. This guy is like a workaholic and needs ideas on this NEW , to him, project,eh ! Read his remarks again....how many times have you stayed awake half the night dreaming/scheming about your new work product ! Now to answer your question Tod, i.e.- locating pins for mains. Like Crazy says above...pinemall ! Also, if it is mechanically possible, consider moving the valves CLOSER TO cylinders for better breathing. Henry didn't and that hurts performance. BTW..1.5 exhaust valves (stock) are fine, but 1.75 intakes would be ++,eh ! Hm, I guess a counter balance shaft to improve balance ..is out of the question Tod, Mike (above) is a 'restorer' . His comments , about Model A/B engine owners not being negative about improvements in engine innards ...IS TELLING... and I've found that to be true and accurate. NOTE: Everyone who uses a Model A/B engine wants to be able to drive/tour with club members/ friends and keep up with traffic. Lack of durability of these engines is revealed thereby. Ergo, tons of money is put into OLD iron in attempts (MANY failures) to obtain durability/speed. NO one is going to bitch about the inproved innards that YOU will provide. I'm telling you that ...just like with your new/improved 351 Cleveland...ALL of these Model A/B guys will be in line to buy a TOD BUTTERMORE engine! So, the bottom line here is...the more improvements that you make to the inside, the more I WILL BUY and the more I will PAY Get it....more is better, there is no downside!!
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