Technical FE 390 Wont crank anymore

I have a 62 Uni with FE 390. I had the motor rebuilt about 4 years ago or so and its been reliable and great till this weekend. Nothing fancy but little cam, mostly stock, and i didnt cheap out on parts.

Anyway all was well and drove the truck last weekend. I did notice it started to get a little harder to start but it did start. Note every other time it starts with a twist of the key. Great idle, great start great runing. ANyway went to start it and NOTHING....just cranks and cranks and cranks. One time it actually backfired through the carb and caught it on fire a little bit.

I got spark, just taking the spark plug out and putting on the valve cover, and i have fuel. I even tried another coil out the box and nothing.

From all the reading maybe the timign chain slipped, so i pulled the fuel pump out and felt the chain. It seems a little loose but not too crazy. I guess any slop is bad slop.

Either way, any suggestions? I did the TDC and put the rotor to spark plug 31 yesterday but ssame results. Just cranks and cranks.

 

Check compression.

 

You didn't mention distributor, but if using points, make sure they're OK, and check/reset dwell to 27 degrees. If points are burned, the condenser may be at fault, and should be changed.
I would then check the timing before I'd pull the front cover, preferably with an adjustable light, and by cranking the engine. Pulling the plugs will allow faster rpm. If the timing is way off, the chain is probably the cause.

 

did the plug have alot of gas on it? might be flooding out.

 

Sorry about that. I have an MSD ignition.
Plugs are nice and dry. SOmewhat lean looking now but i think its from trying to start it to much.
Like i said ive never hadthis problem for 4 years. Also, i pulled the fuel pump off to feel the timing chain through the hole and I do feel a little slack but it doesnt feel way off. Its not a half an inch or anything.

 

If you have spark and fuel, it is a timing issue. Are you sure it is at TDC of the compression stroke, and not the exhaust stroke??? Does it have good strong spark, MSD box crapped out perhaps???

Also, pull a valve cover and turn it over to make sure the valves are actuating, and you didn't shear a timing gear pin or something silly like that.

 

I'd also look at the roll pin in the distributor gear. They can shear causing the gear to move on the distributor shaft. The shaft will still turn at times but the timing will be way off.

 

Yeah i was wondering on the distributor as well. I didnt pull it out yet to see cause I wanted to put it at TDC again before i did that. what i did notice was the dizzy was able to trun by hand but you needed to really grab it and turn it. Not like it was loose on there. I was hoping it just turned out while driving or something.

Im also going to pull the covers and see what the springs/pushrods/valves look like.

 

If the distributor gear pin has sheared, and the distributor turns easy by hand, check to see if the oil pump has a chunk of crud in it.

 

Start with the simple things first. Compression check? Fuel pump really working? Gas in the tank? Electronic ignition modules are notorious for sudden failure, although you said you had spark. Jump time? If it has a fibre cam gear, those let go and the cam timing goes awry, even though you'll see the valves and pushrods move if you pull a valve cover. If you could turn the distributer body by hand, it just may be so far off it won't run. If it has compression, fuel and spark, it'll run.

 

Crank it with the cap off and watch the rotor. If it doesn't turn, broken distributor drive or broken timing chain.

 

I have broken many distributor roll pins in FE's. What oil pressure did it run? Beware of the roll pin pieces locking up the oil pump.

 

It does turn and i felt the chain through the fuel pump hole so its on but its a little loose. I wouldnt think enough to slip a tooth but maybe. Ill check oil pressure but it was always pretty good. I had to go see a freind in the hospital last night so i couldnt screw around with it. I need to go get a compression tester from soneone as well.

 

When you find TDC and marks line up.
TDC both valves maybe closed. Turn half turn.
Now you are on bottom of #1 cylinder.
Now as you turn the exhaust valve will open
as you get to TDC very close the exhaust valve will be closed,
and the intake will be opening.
If you take the dist out turn upside down and remove any dirt from shaft.
Now oil from bottom let some go to top. Should turn easy and shaft not loose.
Put back in and remove coil wire from cap. hold 1/2" from grd.
Try and start spark should jump 1/2" nice shape sounding spark.

 

[QUOTE="Whitey Ford" 62 Uni;9615148]It does turn and i felt the chain through the fuel pump hole so its on but its a little loose. I wouldnt think enough to slip a tooth but maybe. Ill check oil pressure but it was always pretty good. I had to go see a freind in the hospital last night so i couldnt screw around with it. I need to go get a compression tester from soneone as well.[/QUOTE]

I've worked on these engines and it is very unlikely that your timing chain has slipped. I would check what others are suggesting: sheared pins, distributer, etc.

 

Air fuel spark. check all the simple things first before diffing into the engine. Everyone has you covered with good advice, so i'll throw out a weird one that stumped me. How is your gas? Will it fire on starting fluid or carb cleaner? I had on incident, where the gas in the can was too old, and wouldn't fire the engine, and another where a slight leak in the tank allowed water into the tank. Fresh gas cured both.

 

[QUOTE="Whitey Ford" 62 Uni;9613735]Sorry about that. I have an MSD ignition.
Plugs are nice and dry. SOmewhat lean looking now but i think its from trying to start it to much.
Like i said ive never hadthis problem for 4 years. Also, i pulled the fuel pump off to feel the timing chain through the hole and I do feel a little slack but it doesnt feel way off. Its not a half an inch or anything.[/QUOTE]


Plugs should not be nice and dry if you are trying to start it and it is not firing. The gas you keep pumping down there should be accumulating on them seeing as how it ain't burning off. Have you made sure your fuel pump is still working yet? Looked into carb see if it is squirting under throttle?

 

Yeah i dont think the chain has slipped either. I feel it a little loose but nothing major.

Gas should be good since ive been driving it without an issue and then this just happened.

The distubutor truns easy when cranking. Im still going to oull it and look for any damage to the distributor itself. Im also going to pull the valve covers off and see if everything it working ok. I could have a valve issue or even pushrod.

I did pour some gas in the carb and tried to start it and nothing but then set the carb on fire a little bit. Thats why i wondering if a valve is open causing it to push air out.



Im getting gas sprayed out of nozzle into the carb so i would have thought that was enough to at least get it to bump over for a second. Ill recheck the pump since thats easy.

 

Sure sounds like an ignition, ignition timing, or cam timing/valve train problem to me. I was trying to get a engine to run correctly (that someone else built) and was about to go nuts-nothing was changing with different carbs, distributors etc.
I finally pulled the timing cover to find the cam timing was way off. Ran great after fixing that.
I would have saved myself lots of grief had I thought to check that first. Point is- check everything.

 

You said the magic word to me why it wont start,MSD There junk. And everyone has one including me. I have had to replace several MSD system's,They quit without warning.

 

After reading all of this, my guess is also ignition problems. I've had the pin shear off the dist. gear like others have said, but that was on a stock Ford distributor.



Malcolm

 

How did you notcie the cam timing was off? Just seeing where the dimple mark was in relation to the crank dimple/hole?

what part of the MSD quit working? Was it the pin break, pick up sensor or what part? I mean im getting spark so would that mean its good? The only way i checked though was pulling the plug and putting it against my fender wall.

 

Malcolm - what part of the pin? AT the top part or the bottom at the gears?

 

[QUOTE="Whitey Ford" 62 Uni;9615717]Malcolm - what part of the pin? AT the top part or the bottom at the gears?[/QUOTE]

The roll pin that goes through the gear at the bottom of the distributor.

 

This should give you an idea of location:



Reference Part 61489-S, retaining the drive gear.

 

Just turn it to top dead center pull the cap if the rotor is not pointing at #1 or 6 plug wire the pins probably gone.

 

I'm with "troublemaker" re; dist. gear roll pin; I had one fail, and put me walking ! Go with the simple thing first........

4TTRUK

 

[QUOTE="Whitey Ford" 62 Uni;9615714]How did you notcie the cam timing was off? Just seeing where the dimple mark was in relation to the crank dimple/hole?

what part of the MSD quit working? Was it the pin break, pick up sensor or what part? I mean im getting spark so would that mean its good? The only way i checked though was pulling the plug and putting it against my fender wall.[/QUOTE]

MSD boxes are notorious for failing. Most NASCAR teams have 2 in the car. They usually still spark but not at the right time.

 

Yeah im going to check the distributor first...but im gonna go ahead and pull the valve covers and check everything up there as well. Wehn i rebuilt the motor i didnt cheap out on anything. I remember i got the damper from damper doctor and its not like i race it so i wouldnt think the chaian had slipped...at least not after 4 years or so.

 

Nothing wrong with MSD products. The majority of race cars from bracket cars to Top Fuel use their stuff. Proper installation is essential. Keep the boxes away from heat and isolate them from as much vibration as possible. Every thing breaks now and then. Calling their stuff junk is kind of funny...

If you find out it was the roll pin and you need one let me know. I have a bunch and will mail you one for free.