Projects Edith d' Plymouth: restyling my P-15

I'm going to finally restovate my rusty Plymouth. Exactly how I'll do it up, I have not determined. I'm not exactly Daddy Warbucks, so modest finances will determine everything I must buy. A modern power train would be really nice if I can find the right donor cheap enough.

Folks who have seen the "then and now" photos I've posted on the HAMB already, may have also read that I bought this 1947 Plymouth Special Deluxe Club Coupe as an amateur-restored mild custom in 1986. the first two photos are of "as it was" except without lowering blocks. I actually wanted to drive the car. LOL






(Taken last week.)



Well she's aged a bit and gotten much dirtier since then.



Edith was a traditional lowrider (with the exception of not being a Chevy that is ) but I bought it to hop up, back in the days when smog laws had made older cars more attractive to hop up because new cars were untouchable by law.

After ditching some of the lowrider stuff (notably the VW tires, lowering blocks, bumperettes and lake pipes) I drove it as my daily ride through 1989, doing some needed mechanical restorations in the process. The brakes, steering gear, and electrical system were all a joke when I bought it. Lots of other shortcomings were became evident with the previous work.

The paint started to crack on top after being exposed to fumes from a manufacturing plant, and eventually it started falling off.

Man oh man, it's really falling off now!



It also developed a wrist pin knock, but generally this car ran well. Eventually I took interest in other cars & drove it rather less frequently thereafter; and in 1992 I put it away in the garage and only did sporadic work on Edith. Other interests kept me away for some 10 years when we moved across town. When I parked it in the new garage I intended to start in again, but other jobs claimed my time and eventually Old Edith d' Plymouth was pushed aside to rust in my back driveway from 2004 until 2014.

Times have changed for me and now I want this car again in the worst way. Go figure? Unlike a neglected woman, however, Edith is still all mine after 25 years of near total neglect. Time to renew some vows...

I pulled it out yesterday so I could start work in earnest. This is what I found on the surface. (more photos of the crusty underbelly when I have time.)


I built a cart from some old timbers and some new casters and bolts. I'll use it to move the frame out from under the body eventually, but immediately I had to monkey the Scout (the boat, a trailer, and a pile of rusty car parts & junk) out of the way for access, and that Scout was in a tight spot with frozen brakes and a seized engine. I put the scout on the cart and drug it around with a come-a-long. You can barely see the cart under the Scout here:


It's 1963 BTW, with a '67 body & engine. I was 18 when Dad & I swapped it on back in 1973. I'll post it's resto photos some day (If I get it done) but on a 4WD forum.

For the first time in almost 10 years, Edith has a roof over her head! Well a tarp stretched over some cyclone fence poles at least.

My intention when we moved to this house was to build a second garage/shop (the first being full) but the life and my family had different ideas for my money. I finally decided I wanted the car fixed no matter what I had to do, and so I will have to do the bodywork work outdoors, without A/C At least I have some place to work out of the sun, and plenty of spare concrete as I did manage to pour a 6-place drive way in the back in 2003 (Silly wife wanted more lawn...??? )



The black widow extermination is now complete, I've got some Jasco & a new wire cup for my grinder; and after many (somewhat) anxious years, the de-rusting process finally begins tonight!

 

Doing the same with my 38 dodge,I got it in 72. Just getting to it now.

 

An old flat-6 with overdrive would be great in that car, but I understand...

 

Good to see another Plym getting worked on! Plenty of threads on how to update this model. You can relocate the front shocks fairly cheaply. '70s & 80s Dodge Pick ups and vans have the rear sump set up needed to drop in a 318 or 360, they usually can be found fairly cheaply.

 

Oh, lookie! '53 dodge 230cid & '49 (?) Plymouth w/ OD sittin' in my garage.






I've got all the accessories (just stock. no fancy speed stuff.) I could keep it running. It would be fun too.

The thing is that I already drove it stock for years, even though my original intention was to stuff this 350 Buick engine I had into it.

And it was fun as hell; but I've been there, done that, & now I want something stronger.

Also I'm not sure how "traditional" this ride will finally end up anyhow. It might seem very silly with a flattie still in there if I make it a radical.

 

Thanks, George. I've been plowing through all the old Mopar threads here, and the info is worth a fortune. Thanks to all the contributing Mopar HAMBers.

 

Some where around here I have a picture of my old Scout and my '48 cooling it together in the driveway... It was a '63 Scout 80 2wd with the pickup type top, and I gave to the ex-girlfriend and wish everyday that I didn't! Miss that dumb thing. Oh, here's my '48 about ten years ago. It's a straight up hot rod that served as my daily from '94 to '12 before getting nailed HARD in an accident. It's about 90%back together again as we speak...

 

I can't sell this one. My Scout was bought by my dad new in '63. I've had it since he passed in 2002.

This is a Scout 80 with the bigger 4 cyl 1967 model engine & the 800 series body from a V-8 Scout we bought in Phoenix.

Dad didn't like the heavy IHC V8 engine & had planned a Ford V8 swap since way back 1968, but it never happened. His new 289 crate engine wound up in my '66 Ford coupe.


He wound up with a Scout turbo engine. It sits in my garage unused.

 

After some other preliminary chores, the stripping has started.



I can't strip the trim off yet, as I haven't got set up to store all the stuff in an orderly manner, but I had to start digging in. I've wanted to re-paint this car for at least 25 years.

The lacquer and primer were very thick but here seems to be only about the normal amount of bondo, with some lead under that.





So far, this spot is the only thing that has clearly rusted clear through. Actually this spot was nearly that bad in 2004 when I pushed her outside.



EDIT: well that's not true. There's a spot in the driver's floorboard where the rubber "running board" tits go through the floor.

I'll have to get a shot of that when I get it jacked up.

Otherwise I don't know of any other spot with real rust-through.

I may find out different when I get all the paint and filler ground off though.

 

I previously posted many more photos of this car, then and now, in this thread (when I was trying to decide what style this car actually did/should represent.)

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=867372

I found no original paint on the outside so far. I believe this car was a bit rough all over when it was repainted in the '70's, owing to the thickness of the filler primer used. I'll see what it's like underneath the paint all over soon, but I'll probably be digging out lead also. I found a bit of hokey leadwork already, right above the upper left corner of the trunk lid.

Ha! Stupid spellcheck dictionary doesn't believe that "leadwork" is a real word.

It has no problem with "ironwork", but somehow "leadsled" doesn't fly either.
(Ummm, no pun intended but somehow still delivered.)

 

Memories are funny things...

I sanded my first car down when I was 16, but this takes me right back. How can a sheet of 60 grit & a rusty fender make me feel 40 years younger as soon as I touch them?

It was too late to crank up the sander or the grinder when I finally got out to my car last night. I spent some time just scraping rust off with a thin steel scraper. Just sharpen it up & then shave off the rust and paint scraps. Quieter and makes less dust than sanding or wire wheel, but it's slow and gave me time to think.

And my thinking is that I'm going to need lots of advice here.

I really got out of the old car stuff 25 years ago, and I haven't kept up at all. so many things are done differently. So many cool things are available now. I'm just not sure what's next (after all the sanding etc.)

But I'm not worried. Just the few hours of time I've spent here has helped enormously with my choice of direction. There's a lot of tech help and styling help, but also there's this defining respect for tradition here that both amazes me and delights me (but upon which I do not have a firm grasp.) In that situation, I will appreciate all the good advice I can get about what I'm doing---about exactly what to build here any why.

My ideas keep evolving, but at present:

Green paint. Tu-tone dark/light like Hirohata maybe. Most of the britework will stay. I might lose the vent wings.

I'm not going to overload this car. Probably more of a street rod than a Kustom in that respect; but being what it is, necessarily a bit of both. I'm not going to aim for high horsepower or outlandish paint & bodywork. This car should be more subtle--more moderate. It'll have A/C but the A/C may reside in the trunk, with vents coming through a custom-made headliner and defrost air coming down from above. Optima battery, in the trunk too. The heater may remain, stock & separate.

I'm thinking a small V8 will be plenty of motivation for me. It should probably have a manual trans. Big mods won't be necessary to mount it. I don't care much if it's not a Mopar.

The rear axle is already rebuilt & it's a 3:90 which means I can run some tall rear tires + overdrive, but eventually that axle will burn up. At that point I'll be looking at all options for the axle.

Front suspension will be modified stock. Just how modified I haven't decided but probably Aerostar springs, gas shocks relocated inside the springs, lowered spring seat, Cherokee sway bar, inverted top a-arms, maybe R&P steering, but the stock box is A-OK so maybe just add a relay rod & idler arm to square up the funky asymmetrical geometry? I'd definitely go R&P except that this car will still have kingpins, so that makes it kinda silly IMO.

The visor is history. The skirts too. Probably the bumpers. I'm going to re-work the rear wheel wells. Tires will be staggered front/rear but just what tires I don't know yet. Ditto for wheels. Traditional is nice but I want tubeless.

The body probably will not get chopped. If I do anything I'll build a Carson top, lowered with portholes maybe. The grille is a quandry. I love the style and hate the flimsy-stamped-from-sheetmetal-197-part execution of it all. I hate the plumb body seams on the louvered panel too. I do have some ideas...

The interior may just get repaired initially. It needs cleaning, patching of the driver seat, new front seat foam, kickpanel work, and serious headliner work. I hate fake wood. We had a heater in the 50's that was woodgrained. "...how the devil can a heater be made out of wood?" I thought. The dash & garnish will be painted but no woodgrain. There's no wood on this car. It'll get painted tu-tone green. The stock radio will be gutted and re-packed with modern sound gear.

I'm thinking my car might like to have fake tortoise shell knobs. The stockers are all still viable, but I know they won't last, being old and somewhat brittle. Eventually I'll need new ones. Also my '50's "rose-under-glass" shifter knob has passed on & I now have this huge wood ball for my shifter with a OD inhibitor switch mounted in it. That's gotta go! I want to try casting a fancy one in a centrifuge, but no roses. This was a lady's car, but no longer.

I see some fun experiments in my future, and really this is all like mad scientist stuff to me anyhow. Casting mysterious plastics in high speed rotating machines, rigging electrical devices, pressurizing things, mixing chemicals, chopping up bodies and welding them back together.

"IGOR! Switch on the Plasma Torch!"

 

Ill be following, but don't know how much help ill be on your build. Just keep trucking and you will get it finished. Just when it looks hopeless, as long as you do something on it, you can get through it. I'm looking forward to it

 

Aw, no sweat bud. This is not my first car.

It's like #12 of 21 so far, and except the last couple I've done lots of work on every one. I worked in some Pro shops while in college, did welding & machine shop, and come from a twisted history of hillbilly engineers turned computer bums. (OK, actually we all had shoes, but half the family is from the edge of civilization in upstate New York & the other from hilly Kentucky.)

My very first car was a total re-builder: 6 year old rent-a-Ford which had been junked out with a busted engine and big rust hole in the QP. I rebuilt it my Jr. year of high school. We went from Baudette, Minnesota to Phoenix, Arizona in that car, and commuting over the Rocky mtns maybe 300 times in the 70's.

My real cause for concern here is that I'll embarrass myself by building a car that appears too historically "mixed up" to fit the concept of this whole concern which is HAMB.

This place may not look like much on the surface, but the people here have already saved me from several mechanical indiscretions and kultural blunders. I have great respect for the experience represented on the HAMB, and for the whole social feeling of the place. Good stuff will come of all this.

 

Still stripping paint and rust. I can't spend more that an hour or two on it each day right now, so it's gonna be slow going.

This car was rusty at some time in its past, in the same places it's rusty now. Under the paint most of the "clean" spots are quite bright after just a swipe of the wire brush. Under the rusty spots is lots of thick primer, covering the evidence of older rust, turned to iron phosphate.

I don't have but maybe 15% of the car scuffed now and maybe 1% finished to perfect, shining steel, but so far I haven't found any hidden damage. I hope my luck holds out.

 

Since you are looking toward a v-8 and manual trans I might suggest looking for an early 2wd Dakota with 5.2 and 5-speed, the rear axle will also work and if you feel up to the task the front ifs is doable.

...or you could go to an EarlyHemi and 5-speed...and you are not too far away...

.

 

For a rear end look at the Explorer 8.8 - right width & bolt pattern, lots of ratios, cheap at junkyards, disc after about 1997.

 

Pretty sad to see it go the way it did, but relieved to see your taking it back to former glory.

 

they usually can be found fairly cheaply.

 

It was an awful shame, but I was at a point in my life where I simply couldn't work on 'em any more. I was almost physically incapable, and at a complete mental roadblock, and had literally just given up on Edith and the idea of driving her again. In my mind, those days were gone.

Near to 40 years of flyin' a desk job had made me fat and lazy, and I was also smoking like a stove & got little exercise except riding my motorcycle to work. Also I was suffering from a knee injury & couldn't get around well. I was using a cane to get around at work. I was at the end of my rope & needed to change to survive. I was pushing 240 lbs, had hypertension, and was just a train wreck waiting to happen.

Me in 2008, about 235 lbs:


I couldn't run due to the impact (the knee was painful) but I could still skate, so I took up skating again, gave up the smokes, quit eating out at lunch, and went skating 4 to 6 days a week instead. I took up the dumbbells as well and did a lot of working out. I took "diet drugs", special exercises, etc & basically tossed myself headfirst into the whole business.

I've been going at it with increasing vigor for over 6 years now. I'm 175 lbs & the exercise has paid off.

190 Was last year.
At 175.



You can see my knees are working again.



So now I find myself "in revised circumstances" and wanting to do stuff I'd put aside. Like train for a 26 mile skate marathon (I've made it 21.6 miles so far.) and rebuild my old cars.

Yes, the Scout is getting restovated too. I oiled the hinges and opened the tailgate for the first time in 12 years today. I needed a place to store Edith's trim and bumpers.

 

Thanks guys. the 5.2/5-speed sounds like a gas.
Is that model digital fuel injected? (I don't know what years "early" represents.)

I really do want digital engine management. A classic Hemi is just too high class ($$$) for the likes of me though. In my case, any old chamber will do .

 

OK some new pics. I got out last night and went after the rear quarters and trunk lid.

"X" marks the low spot and the arrow shows the rot.


I quit grinding when the bondo got thick:


Yeesh! close to 1/4" at the worst spot so far:


Here's the rot, all exposed.

I'll probably cut that out tonight. I want to have a look at the bottom & the back of the inside panel & seams first, to make sure I'm cutting enough.


There's a little more I'll show later, but this is the worst spot on the whole body, as far as I know.

 

Oof! I just ground out all that bondo. It was nearly 1/2" at one spot.

Now I'm wondering how bad the rockers really will be. ???

There was torch work evident under the lock mechanism, and puller holes galore, but no evidence of competent bodywork.

 

The early, first generation Dakota was suggested due to it having 'normal' five lug wheels and easily adaptable ifs. The Dak changed to 6-lug around 1990-91 or so. Still usable if you swapped both front and rear if you don't mind 6-lug wheels.
The 318 and 360 got the roller cam package in 1986 and more changes in 1992 and all are very good performers.

As to efi I admit to being more old-school and a bit of an efi doofus...I do know that there are a number of aftermarket wiring systems on the market for conversion.
Hopefully one of the younger guys with efi insight will jump in.

.

 

Thanks. I'm looking for a donor vehicle and Dakotas seem pretty common around here.

I was plenty happy with the performance of my 318 Volare Premier, which was a '78 and old tech with a carb, but did have electronic ign. It was a lot of fun once I swapped in the rear end from a 6-cyl Plymouth.

I do miss the adjustable torsion bars.

 

I took some more photos this AM, after cleaning all the junk out of the trunk. I'm really smiling at what I discovered, too.

The trunk floor is in really good shape. I haven't dropped the tank yet, so no telling what's below, but from the top she's pretty primo.


That weatherseal retainer lip is rather eaten at one end, but what's behind it is absolutely solid from what I see below.


There's that rotten spot on the left rear QP, from the inside. After digging out the tar-type body sealant, what is seen from the outside is the worst of it all by far. (The passenger side was 100% perfect under the tar too. )


The inner floor edge is just barely damaged, and appears to be not rusted back, but bent back just a trifle. I think this spot was bent and straightened long ago, and the unvisible floor edge just ignored.


I thought this spot (the trunk latch striker pocket) would be cheese, but not a speck of it!


I really lucked out, and also I'd repaired the trunk seals years ago, and in 9 years of sitting in the rain it never leaked. No evidence of carpet mold when I pulled it out, and just the most minor rust in the spare tire well.

I darkened the shadows on this photo so you can tell how lumpy the lid is after removing the bondo. At one point I was using a mallet & chisel on the thick spots, and that bondo was actually very solid. There was some minor surface rust under it in spots, and it was lifting slightly here & there but I suspect it would have made it many more years.


So far every bolt and screw has come out easily, and I'm having a fine go of it all. This is what they mean in Hemmings when they advertise "easy restore". God I remember what cars looked like in Minnesota after just 5 years. My 6-year old Ford from Baudette Mn. had holes the size of a baseball in the QP.

I'm feeling really lucky and very thankful here guys!

 

I went over the fenders, tips & door bottoms with a strong magnet. I spotted a bit of bondo at the rear fenders, but not insanely thick. Can't tell about the rockers until I get the trim off. I think this car might wind up with a custom-by-ulu tin rear apron. Edith has always had a draft up her butt due to the missing apron.

Maybe one of the P-15 owners would post up a pic of their rear apron so I can get an idea what they look like? I thought about making a custom front visor as well. The one I have now is just too hokey

 

Dunno what they manufacture next door, but if it does that to paint, u need to quit breathing that air! Great build, looking forward to updates.

 

Would you please tell me about the inverted upper a arms? That's a new one to me.

 

I left that job in 1989. They did painting and annodizing. The air at my desk was OK, but I wouldn't want to work over those tanks for long.

It's a great old car still, but I dunno how great the actual build will be. Remember, I'm a hobbiest who's been out of the loop over 20 years. It's been almost 40 years since I last painted a car.

I did do some custom work, though. I stripped (EDIT: striped not "stripped" big difference!) my '66 Ford. (turned out awful.) I did a few motorcycles with funky '70's style psychedelic crap, which truned out good. I also laid out the flames on a 5-step flame job on a 32 Ford PU, but did not paint it. I merely directed the painter on that one, but it was pretty dang good.

HOWEVER: I painted my little boat about 12 years ago with urethane, and these new paints scare me! I might have Edith's parts pro-primed in epoxy, in batches, then just finish it myself in lacquer.

All I can say for 100% certain is that 30 yeas ago I saw it done on this old GM car with IFS very similar to the P-15 IFS & it had the top arms flipped. That car was in the weeds too, with forward rake & I dug it, but never saw the owner to ask. It appeared to be an old Chevy 2dr sedan with a maybe a '41 Buick grille & Convo Pro wheels. Awsome wheels.

 

I did a lot more metal finishing on the deck last night. Except Edith doesn't have a deck. It's more of a bustle. (Cue, I Love Big Butts)



I'm sorry now I let her rust, but a year ago I simply didn't care. I had a new car and a new hot-rod truck, and a big touring bike, and a fishing boat, plus the right seat in a lightplane. I had other interests that I'm ignoring now. Aw, with the drought you can't fish much here anyway...LOL

This was the spare, but it's not an original wheel. I think it's 60's Ford or Mopar. That's a VW radial 165-80 P series.