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Technical Model A Chassis: Hydraulic Brake Lines

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Dennis Lacy, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,393

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    We recently had a customer drop off the chassis for his Model A (30/31) Roadster project so that we could make the plumbing for his hydraulic brake system. Usually my Dad does the plumbing but decided to hand this one off to me. Turned out pretty decent, I think, and got to thinking that sharing some pictures might help out some guys with ideas for their future Model A hydraulic brake plumbing projects.

    This chassis (will have a Model B engine) has a Model A flywheel housing with a Cling's V8 transmission adapter as well as a Cling's master cylinder and pedal kit which mounts a shaft so that the stock Model A pedals can be used. Rear axle is Model A with '39-'41 Ford brakes rotated forward for better wheel cylinder port clearance (a recommended modification by Cling's). Front axle is '33-'36 with '42-'48 spindles and F1 truck brakes with offset tie rod ends. Kind of a mickey-mouse setup and we pretty much have the owner convinced to change to '32-'34 spindles and tie rod (since the axle is stock and everything will fall into place) and he will be changing the front brakes to '39-'41 Ford like the rear because he wants to use wire-spoke wheels and they won't work with the F1 drums.

    Because the Cling's master cylinder setup mounts to the transmission, any steel lines rigidly mounted to the chassis must be isolated with a flexible hose, which is why a hose is used from the master cylinder to the forward lines. We use 1/4" steel line because that's how Ford did it. The tee's and banjo bolts at the master cylinder and front/left hose and the tee on the rear radius rod are all '39 Ford and readily available reproduction. Factory-style armor coil was used on the rear lines where they are exposed as they make their way up to the wheel cylinders.

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    Any questions, fire away!

    :)
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  2. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    That looks well thought out and super clean. Nicely done!
     
  3. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,783

    HotRodMicky
    Member

    Super clean!
    Where can you get the amor coil material??
    Thanks
    Michael
     
  4. Wanna do mine?
     

  5. Rem
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,257

    Rem
    Member

    Thanks for posting the pictures - very neat and tidy installation.

    Does the wishbone mounting crossmember suffer from braking loads or anything due to the leverage on the fixings up at the chassis? I guess it would be worked harder if rod brakes were still in use, but even low speed steering must be pulling and pushing the axle backwards and forwards?
     
  6. Majo
    Joined: Jul 9, 2013
    Posts: 99

    Majo
    Member

    clean good job, thanks for posting

    Majo
     
  7. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 4,215

    48fordnut
    Member Emeritus

    Really nice bending job.Especially like the large pics.
    5 Star.
     
  8. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    clean install
     
    pat59 and kidcampbell71 like this.
  9. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,393

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    We have not been able to find a source for the armor coil by itself. We buy lengths of 1/4" line with the armor coil already on it from a local auto parts store, pull it off and cut it to length as needed.
     
  10. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,393

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    I had not seen a wishbone mount like this before. The owner said that he built it based on similar mounts other Model A owners that he knows had made. It's built from thick wall (.120") tubing and heavy plate and seems stout enough. Since the car is going to be relatively light (fender-less roadster, 4-banger, etc.) with narrow tires I don't see any cause for concern. Personally, I don't like the looks of it but I don't have a dog in that fight.
     
  11. FlatJan
    Joined: Dec 13, 2013
    Posts: 306

    FlatJan

    that´s some beautiful work..
    do you have a partslist?
     
  12. Interested in the armor coil also, is it possible you provide the brand name and part number for the line you purchased at your local parts store.

    Are the sharp armored bends close to the fittings made with a line pliers and then the armor slid down to the tube nut?
     
  13. Will Kimble
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 401

    Will Kimble
    Member

    Beautiful work Dennis! Fwiw, I found that I could mount the rear backing plates without rotating them forward if I hacked off the rear shock mounts - which I notice has been done to this rear end. Thought the info might help somebody. I have used the Cling's wishbone mount that bolts to the tranny and it works great, not sure why he built his own?
     
  14. wex65
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,118

    wex65
    Member
    from WV

  15. fourd
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 91

    fourd
    Member
    from Colorado

    Nice work, attention to detail and just the information I was looking for. Thanks"
     
  16. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,393

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    I can get you the part number(s) tomorrow. It is made by Edelman.

    Yes, you do all the bending necessary and before the final tube nut and flare are done you slide the armor coil onto the sections of line you want protected.
     
  17. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,393

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

    In past situations we have been able to make it work with the backing plates mounted straight up. In this case, the owner had already rotated them.

    I asked the owner about Cling making a wishbone mount for the V8 transmission (because I was pretty sure he does) and he said that he knew one was available but decided on this approach. I think cost was probably the deciding factor because like a lot of older Model A guys, he's "thrifty". :)
     
  18. Dennis Lacy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,393

    Dennis Lacy
    Member

  19. MAD 034
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 775

    MAD 034
    Member
    from Washington

    Bending hard lines is an art and I would say you have it mastered!
     
  20. kopperkart
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 468

    kopperkart
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Dad taught you well.
     
  21. Hotrodmyk
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 2,302

    Hotrodmyk
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Northwest HAMBers

  22. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    rottenleonard
    Member

    Running brake lines is a thankless job, if you do a fantastic job they almost disappear, do a poor job and it makes everything else look like crap. You deserve a pat on the back.
     
  23. this is perfect timing.
     
  24. bartmcneill
    Joined: Dec 23, 2009
    Posts: 395

    bartmcneill
    Member
    from Ada, OK

    Nice. Would love to juice brake mine, add the dropped chrome axle and the 16" 35s.
     
  25. yes....very nice work....and thanks for posting !
     
  26. ydopen
    Joined: Mar 14, 2010
    Posts: 230

    ydopen
    Member

    Thanks for taking the time to share the pictures. It will be a help on my roadster.

    John
     
  27. earlyv8
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 194

    earlyv8
    Member
    from oklahoma

    FWIW

    I'm not that familiar, with A's but doesn't the model A have the front wishbone mount on the transmission case? That's a much later trans case as it has the window at the top.

    Clean setup. Like the brake pedal/master cylinder set up. Like to do something similar to a 32 chassis some day, I know kits are available for the 32 but I too am "thrifty",

    Just saying.
     
  28. Super Streak
    Joined: Nov 22, 2011
    Posts: 296

    Super Streak
    Member
    from Florida

    You did a great job on running the lines. Your Dad taught you well, keep up the good work.
     

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