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Ladder bars

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by chopt31, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. chopt31
    Joined: Dec 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,183

    chopt31
    Member

    do you guys think it is necessary to use dom or moly tubing for ladder bars?
     
  2. pete & jakes , So-cal uses DOM.....and i have too on all the ladder bars i have built
     
  3. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    The only difference between regular tubing and DOM is the inside diameter is more accurate for tapping the 5/8 threads. It is not that much more expensive but regular tubing is just as strong.
     
  4. tiredford
    Joined: Apr 6, 2009
    Posts: 560

    tiredford
    Member
    from Mo.

    I think DOM is seamless.
     

  5. ohiolineman
    Joined: Jul 21, 2013
    Posts: 21

    ohiolineman
    Member

    Regular tubing has a welded seam. DOM is "drawn over mandrel" and is stronger. Probably be a Good idea to use dom. Pick it up at jets or summit or speedway. By the foot.

    ford for life
     
  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,333

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    DOM has a welded seam, just like ERW. In the case of DOM, it is a seam that has been smoothed out by a mandrel, after welding. It is more unform in grain and dimension, and a fair amount stronger.
     
  7. There's a few more differences than that.

    Here is what the Steel Tube Institute of North America has to say about DOM:

    The DOM Manufacturing Process

    The manufacturing process for DOM tubing begins with coils of steel, which are slit to the proper width for the desired tube size. The strip is cold formed and passed through an electric resistance welder which joins the edges together, under pressure, to complete the tubular shape. After testing the weld's integrity, the tubing is cut to length for further processing.

    The cold-drawing process creates a uniform, precision product with substantially improved tolerances, surface finish and tensile strength, increased hardness and good machinability. In this process, the tube is cleaned and annealed, and one end of each length is squeezed to a point so it can be gripped by the drawing mechanism. The tube is then drawn through one or more dies and over mandrels. This reduces the diameter of the tube and thins its walls to the required dimensions in a controlled fashion to provide the qualities desired in the finished product. Metallurgically, drawing improves the tube's concentricity, tensile strength, hardness and machinability. Close dimensional accuracy is achieved through tight control of both outside and inside diameters.
     
  8. DOM yes
    Molly- depends on what's in front of it I suppose
     
  9. black 62
    Joined: Jul 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,895

    black 62
    Member
    from arkansas

    not needed for shop built ladder bars ---all the special qualities are for conformity in a manufacturing process...
     
  10. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,209

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    It depends how heavy or light you want to make them for a given strength.

    DOM is slightly stronger, so they can be made a little lighter than ERW.
    Chrome moly is stronger than mild steel, so can be made lighter yet.
     
  11. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,318

    gearheadbill
    Member

    7/8" O.D. x .156 wall DOM. 4130 is overkill on a street (non-race) car.
     
  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,659

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Chrome moly not recommended. It has problems with breaking next to the welds unless heat treated. Mild steel is safer, easier to work with and will bend easier in an accident. Race car builders tried chrome moly years ago and went back to steel. A little heavier but you know where you are.
     
  13. banginona40
    Joined: Mar 5, 2007
    Posts: 773

    banginona40
    Member

    I would go with the 7/8" DOM and tap it out with a 5/8" tap. No drilling required.
     
  14. Dan Timberlake
    Joined: Apr 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,534

    Dan Timberlake
    Member

    for a fully triangulated structure the failure would likely be buckling of some straight section, and the basic formulas for the critical buckling load don't take material tensile strength into account. Just the "modulus of elasticity" or "E"
    https://www.efunda.com/formulae/solid_mechanics/columns/columns.cfm

    And "E" is essentially the same (~ 30,000,000 psi ) for all steel no matter what alloy or heat treatment.

    http://www.engineersedge.com/manufacturing_spec/properties_of_metals_strength.htm

    In the buckling formulas "I" is also very important. That is related mostly to tube diameter, and to a lesser degree wall thickness.

    If the ladder bar is NOT fully triangulated then the bending strength of the tube is important. Again big diameter is more powerful than exotic material. And details of the joint and gusset design can REALLY make a difference.
     
  15. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,045

    rooman
    Member


    Bullshit!
     
  16. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,368

    brandon
    Member

    that is a funny post rooman....he probably doesn't get around many race cars:D
     
  17. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,530

    aaggie
    Member

    Back in the '60s we built ladder bars out of thick walled square stock with threaded bungs in the ends and lots of bracing. They were heavy and welded with an AC crackerbox and 6011 rods. I don't remember ever breaking one.

    If you have access to better stuff then use it but it isn't a show stopper.
     
  18. dom is also good for roll cages. it has a minimum wall thickness rating. it will always pass a sonic check.
     
  19. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,876

    Larry T
    Member

    I've bought several roll bar kits from Chris Alston's Chassisworks, none of them were DOM. Neather are the ones that get bent up anywhere around here. Sure DOM is better, but not in the rulebook for cages.
     

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