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62 Thunderbird rear brakes getting hot

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ratman, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    About 12 months ago all of a sudden the rear brakes on my 62 Thunderbird started to get really hot. Both sides did it but the left side was the worst (Smokin Hot). I have replaced a lot of parts but the problem persists, Now the left side seems o/k and the right side is getting hot.[​IMG]

    This is what I have done so far.
    New Brake drums
    New brakes shoes
    New springs and retainers
    New Slave cylinders
    Cleaned and checked and blown out with compressed air all of the brake lines.
    Checked and adjusted the hand brake cable and then completely slackened it off to make sure it wasn't the handbrake causing the issue

    Tonight in shear frustration and at great cost I ordered a new master cylinder and brake booster from Mac's. I cant see how this would be the problem as I would have thought all of the wheels would be grabbing if it was.

    Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks in advance
    Peter
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  2. RobNik
    Joined: Oct 15, 2004
    Posts: 10

    RobNik
    Member

    Rear brake flexy hose collapsed. The inside of the hose deteriorates effectively creating a one way valve. Could you send the booster back? Had the same happen on a Jag E type

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  3. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,546

    stimpy

    when putting on the shoes are they new or relined?? , and if they are relined make sure the shoes are not bent at the mounts , also check the backing plates for wear and burrs on the wear /slide points that will not allow the shoes to retract fully , the wear points your supposed to clean to brite smooth metal ( no notches ) and apply either slyglide or antisieze and rub it in to the metal so it stays, so it don't rust . just need a little on your finger tip and rub it in . if the backing plates were powdercoated /painted remove the powdercoat/paint off the points as it will cause sticking

    as for the mc that can be a cause as the rear brakes adjust up every time you back up and if they are held out closer to the drum they will adjust quicker , the fronts do not have this feature ( its part of the e brake system ) .
     
  4. Ray C's son
    Joined: Dec 27, 2009
    Posts: 410

    Ray C's son
    Member

    I've had this happen on a couple of cars, they'll collapse internally and you can't tell by looking at the outside of the hose. Try a new hose before putting on the booster and master. When you crack the bleeder does the wheel free up?

    Kevin
     

  5. boltupal
    Joined: Dec 27, 2010
    Posts: 293

    boltupal
    Member
    from western ny

    I it possible that's it the master cylinder. But it could the rubber hose that goes over the top of the axle.
     
  6. This sounds plausible, but I'm going to stick my neck out here a little.

    I'm going to assume that you have steel tube running to each rear wheel cylinder. For the rear brakes there's just one rubber flex hose between the body and the rear axle. If it was collapsed or acting as a check valve I would expect it to affect the brakes on both rear wheels. And I kind of have the same feeling about a master cylinder problem as well. I won't say to rule them out completely but I'd move then down a few steps on my list of suspects.

    Do you have the leading and trailing shoes properly oriented from side to side? Do you have any weak or dead shoe return springs? If self adjusting, are the star wheel assemblies correct for each side of the car? The fact that the problem seems to only happen on one side at a time tends to make me think more about it being a mechanical rather than hydraulic problem.
     
  7. I'll agree it sounds like a mechanical problem more than hydraulic....

    If the contact points for the shoes on the backing plates are worn, that can prevent the shoes from retracting consistently. This can be repaired by welding the grooves then grinding the pad back to flat. If you've overheated the springs, those may need to be replaced again. You can tell if the paint has lost 'color' (no longer green and yellow, but brown).
     
  8. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    Guys thanks for all of the advice. The one thing that I have noticed different about the T Bird is the E brake cables come into the rear end from the back of the car rather than the front in most 9" applications I've seen.

    This caught me out because when I was looking at the system with the drums off I thought I had found the problem and that the spring return system was on backwards. But the shoes can only go on one way because of the E brake lever that's on one of the shoes. I'm wondering if the T bird has a special set of shoes because of this??? All the part numbers seem the same though.

    I have checked the flexi hose and is was o/k but I have ordered another just in case.
     
  9. There you go... Don't overlook the simple, basic stuff. ;) And I remember years ago seeing guys "testing" the springs by dropping them on a concrete floor. IIRC good springs kind of went "ping" and bounced around a bit. Dead springs just went "klunk" and laid there. :eek:
     
  10. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    The flat faces on the backing plates are all in good condition and the springs still retain there original colour.
    I will change out the flexible hose and see what happens.
     
  11. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 31,179

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    did you have the new brake drums turned, and brake shoes arched? recently had to replace badly worn drums/shoes on a '68 Chevy PU. still had same bad braking problem. had drums turned, etc and no more hot drums/wheels. but, old brake fluid and bad hoses can be part of problem too.
     
  12. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    No I didn't have the new drums machined or the shoes arched. I didn't realise I had to.
    I know for a fact the new drums are Chinese manufacture even though I got them from a US supplier that promised me they weren't. Made in China was printed on the box so I guess he thought us Kiwis couldn't read English.
    In saying that though the set of drums that originally got hot were in as new condition and they were genuine Ford items so I doubt the manufacture origin has anything to do with it.
    When this crap started a year ago I thought it would be an easy fix but its turned out to be one of those head aches that wont go away.
    One thing I have learned is shit happens.
     
  13. RDR
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,480

    RDR
    Member

    E brake cables come in from the rear???
    can you put a picture up of the cable lash up?
    Never seen this before...
    The backing plates are on the correct sides?
     
  14. F.O.G
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 259

    F.O.G
    Member
    from Pacific,Mo

    What RobNik said in post #2. I had exact same problem on a '59, changed rear flex hose
    and problem solved. Inside of hose splits and allows fluid to flow to brakes but acts like
    a check valve, fluid will return but takes awhile.
     
  15. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    Here's a pic I found on the net. The e brake cable came in from the rear on the 61 62 T Birds
     

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  16. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,966

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I also have never heard of (or seen) park cables coming in the rear on a Bendix duo-servo brake, assuming that's what they used. A picture or two of the rear brake assembly from a '61-'62 T-Bird would be very helpful. :)
     
  17. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    Picture in post 15 of the park brake cables entering from the rear.
     
  18. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,843

    2935ford
    Member

    Are the rear backing plates reversed?
     
  19. RobNik
    Joined: Oct 15, 2004
    Posts: 10

    RobNik
    Member

    Is the e brake cable the correct one? If you swapped the back plates round so the cable entered from the front, then it looks like the cable would be too long. I would have thought that the cable should enter from the front. Unfortunately I don't have any literature here to have a proper looksee.

    Sent from my XT1032 using a big f******g hammer!
     

  20. This is a more common problem then one would think. I have had it happen on more then one occaision to a personal car and repaired it on several over the years. Even on cars that one would consider to be late model (not very old at the time).
     
  21. I just looked under my 62, cables enter from the rear just like yours.
     
  22. RobNik
    Joined: Oct 15, 2004
    Posts: 10

    RobNik
    Member

    Well..you learn summat new every day!

    Sent from my XT1032 using knives and forks
     
  23. I'll agree that it's not an uncommon problem. Have an S10 p/u that a couple years ago would drag the left front caliper until I replaced the brake hose on that wheel. And maybe I'm over analyzing this but I can't get the thought out of my head that with just one brake flex hose supplying both rear brakes, the problem SHOULD affect both rear wheels. Or maybe it is but it's just more noticeable on one wheel or the other.

    I'm going to be really cheesed if we don't find out what actually fixes this issue. :eek:
     
  24. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    The side with the stronger spring or less friction will release first.

    I've seen it happen many a time over the years. One customer wouldn't believe it until I cut the hose open and showed him. There are people who clamp the brake hoses to stop fluid from leaking during brake work.

    I just had to replace the brake hose on a rear caliper on an off topic pickup.
     
  25. My bet would be that once the rear hose is replaced, the lockups should go away. I assume you know of this site for T-birds:

    http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net

    A search of their Forum may yield some additional info for you, but it looks like others here have covered the bases.
     
  26. SquireDon
    Joined: Aug 8, 2010
    Posts: 600

    SquireDon
    Member
    from Oregon

    Check to see if your brake self adjusters are put on correctly. There is a left and right to them. They could be pushing the shoes out, instead of adjusting them while backing up, which is what they were designed to do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  27. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    All you guys have been a boost for my moral. I was going to wait for a new hose to arrive from Macs which will take about 10 days. But I am going to get one locally made.

    It will cost a lot more but it will be a top quality hose. I will keep you posted on what happens.

    Once again thanks for the help.

    Peter
     
  28. 55Belairretrorod
    Joined: May 2, 2013
    Posts: 129

    55Belairretrorod
    Member
    from Australia

    Is it possible that the problem lies partly with the front brakes? i.e. not working properly, so the rear brakes are doing more than their fare share.
    As suggested earlier re flex hose, it would still be a bit strange that it's more pronounced on one side.
     
  29. RobNik
    Joined: Oct 15, 2004
    Posts: 10

    RobNik
    Member

    That could just be down to adjustment though.

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  30. Ray C's son
    Joined: Dec 27, 2009
    Posts: 410

    Ray C's son
    Member

    Checking the hose is super easy. Put the rear of the car up on jack stands and pump up the brakes. Spin the rear wheels by hand. Are the brakes dragging? If they are, open the bleeder. Do the wheels free up? If it does, it's hydraulic, there is too much residual pressure in the line and the hose would be my choice as the next likely culprit. Make sense?

    I was just thinking the same thing about the adjustment, Robnik. The adjustment would have to be identical side to side which isn't likely.

    Kevin
     

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