389 Technical Pontiac Guys Need help with my 1964 Bonneville

There really wasn't much available for valley pans for Pontiacs. There were a couple on the market back in the days and may be 1 or 2 today but most guys use to just have factory one chrome plated.

What shroud are you talking about? Fan shroud?

If it's the fan shroud the fullsize Pontiacs didn't have much of one unless your car had factory air conditioning. The standard ones are very easy to find, the A/C ones not so much.

 

I just got done rebuilding a 389 for a 67 gto. It was a running motor that had major overheating problems. During my research I learned a trick about clearancing the water pump plates to the impeller. Made an incredible difference in temp and coolant flow. You can drive this car all day in traffic now and it never gets above 190. I found the tip on one of the pontiac sites. If you can't find it let me know and I will find the link.

 

There aren't any water pump plates in the early 389's. The early 389's had a totally different timing cover and a round 4 bolt water pump.

There are also different style water pump plates as well as different style water pumps, depending on the year, for the later ('65 & up) Pontiac V-8's. If these get mixed up there will be a cooling issue.

 

This is not true. The water pump used the same design and plates from mid 1963 through 1968 so, that would apply to his 1964.
The 4 bolt style was used from 55 through mid 63.
Hope this helps.

 

Fan shrouds were used with a/c and an option and also part of the hd cooling option. Direct interchange is 1963-4 full size Pontiac

Hope this helps you

www.pontiacheaven.org

 

If you want to "OD" on all things Pontiac, you should check out the PY...Performance Years tech forums...if you can't find what you need there then you don't need it.

 

Okay, I thought the timing cover changed in '64. I didn't know that it was a mid year '63 thing. As far as the plates go, Pontiac used different designs with different part numbers through the Pontiac V-8 period.

I also just realized that we were talking a '64 engine and for some reason I had '63 in my head.

As long as the O.P. is mixing and matching parts I know there is something funky with I believe the '63 to '64 heads. I've had '65 and up V-8's and '60 to '62 V-8's but never a '63 or '64. A friend of mine has a '63 GP that he was putting a 421 into and there was something odd about the oiling system in the heads between a '63 engine and a '64 engine.

What were those differences? I know it gave my buddy fits.

 

The oiling system changed in '65..pre 65 engines oiled the rockers from inside of the block, sending pressurized oil up through a hole in the block's deck on each side of the engine, into a corresponding hole in the cylinder head. The early heads had a galley running through it under the rocker studs which were hollow and had a hole drilled into the side of them to oil the rockers.
65 and newer didn't have this block/head passage and simply oiled the rockers through the pushrods like a chevy V/8.
If you use late heads on an early block it's suggested you tap the oil hole in the block and block it with a set screw that doesn't stick up above the deck. Also, be careful of valve/piston interference as the valve angles were a little different on the 65-up heads.
I'm currently running a pair of 096 heads [73 GTO with big 96 CC chambers to kick the compression down a bit] on my 1957 block, bored out .125 and a set of Jahns pop-up pistons...found I have plenty of valve clearance even with .490 lift Cam but had to clearance my valve retainers to clear my PC valve seals with this added lift cam. I'm told any stock-lift pontiac cam is .440 or less, causing no interference problems with stock Pontiac retainers. Just something to think about if you're contemplating swapping newer heads onto your 64 block and if you're planning a cam swap. Just little details but they're important.

 

Valve angle changed in '67. '64 and '65 ( actually, '66/older ) uses same valve angle.

 

I stand corrected

 

Who makes a true 068 pontiac cam? I want to make sure I avoid something I have heard of, something to do with cam cut onto a generic profile or chevy profile....you get the idea i just can't spit it out right now without digging for the right term

 

O.E.M. 068 specs are............

Duration @ .050 Degrees Intake/Exaust - 212/225

Ave. Duration Degrees Intake/Exaust - 288/302

Lobe Center Degrees Intake/Exaust- 113/118

Lobe Separation Angle - 116

Overlap - 63

Cam Lift Intake/Exaust - .272/.271

Gross Lift Intake/Exaust w/1.5 rocker - .408/.407

Gross Lift Intake/Exaust w/1.65 rocker - .449/.448

Match these numbers up to a common cam maker because an N.O.S. one will cost you a small fortune. I know, I recently sold one.

 

Melling SPC-7. There available at Autozone if you have one close....

 

Thanks guys for all the help so far. I will stick with the stock intake and install as recommended tri power cam. Any recommendation when it comes to top of the line head gaskets? I know edelbrock makes some but I do have a full GM NOS set.

 

I've always had good luck with Felpro gasket sets on my Pontiacs.

 

A little late chiming in here but...
The '62 389 I have slated for the truck in my avatar was a factory 10.25 compression TWO BARREL. It cranked out 368hp (gross rating) and ran great on the crap we pump now. The Star Chief it was in was WAY more than capable, even with the Olds Jetaway HydraMatic and 2.91ish gears. Admittedly, when I got the car, it had been fitted with 1971 400 small-valve, small-chamber heads and matching intake.
Subscribed, I'd like to see how this turns out, my goals are similar. The truck is already equipped with a Grand Wagoneer Dana 44 with 3.31 gears, that should help a lot.

 

I see that Edelbrock has a high perf. Steel shim sandwich head set, much like my NOS GM head set of gaskets....obviously I would like to avoid using any thick or inferior head gaskets that would drop compression or only seal for 5 years.....any input on this subject?, or am I gonig with NOS and copper spray.....lol

 

Time to resurect this thread. Heads, intake and exhaust port matched. 1960's Nos Pontiac upper end gasket kit aquired. Head gasket set is an Old nos Mr. Gasket copper and asbestos set. Cam purchased is the SPC-7 cam. So, need recommendations on a lifter set, I want to avoid made in china crap. Same for timing set with threeway keyway. Also, I am going to change the valve stem seals. Can these heads except the Viton positive style????? ( i have yet to pop a spring n see) once this cam is in and I buy a set of R.A.R.E long tube manifolds. Any idea what this may be upping the oldie to? and any other recommendations.....oh yea, is there a way to convert to posi without paying 1k!!!!! for a fricking center section?

 

do you mean new casting from ram air restorations so from factory the were on all the 348-376hp.on my car it changed performance 40hp(62 389 tripower)stater is problem but mini starter is my sulution.a special starter with solenoid mounted down is factory mounted.you need oil filter adapter shown on picture
there are posies fore sale here on hamb but finding one with 3.23-3.90 is hard.
ihave 4.56 and r4700 od 15 inch 8-lugs so not so bad milage good performance.14.05 on strip

 

The heads will need machined to put the good seals on.

Be cautious using the 3 way gear sets without degreeing the cam. I had one from edelbrock that advanced it 8 degrees in the advance position, it wasn't marked with numbers just advance and retard. You can also use the small offset keyways from Mr gasket for the camshaft, i've found to be fairly accurate. Thats if it needs degreed, I would install it straight up and check first. Just remember the camshaft offset key is going to double the number at the crank. I believe the cam should be installed at 108 but look at the cam card to make sure.

 

Back to my Bonneville. Wrapping it up for a 1400 mile journey to Bismarck ND. I am disassembling the heads, cleaning the valves, relapping them, etc. Are the spring oil shields and inner dampening springs necessary????????? Many performance builds I see never re-install these parts and aftermarket springs do not come with inner dampeners as far as I can tell. Can I shed these parts and be ok while lightening the valvetrain a little???? thanks guys