Projects Koz is building a modified, (my next build)

It's been the same for every shop owner I know. You just have to stay on your toes and not let any grass grow. There is a shop owners group on here and it seems pretty much across the board. As a side note, I think the crunch is more acute among the "traditional" guys as a lot more of what we do can be accomplished by the more hands on owners than the muscle or minicar shops. Particularly first time owners, have little knowledge of what it costs to have labor on a project, let alone parts costs.

I am fortunate to have some good clients that pay me in a timely manner but the real culprit beating the small shops is overhead. Insurance and taxes along with regulatory compliance is crushing right now. I tried to relocate to a larger shop in a nearby municipality and they wanted me to post a $500,000 bond to cover fire department fees for the paint booth and $250,000 bond for police involvement if there was any "trouble". I could afford the building but not the graft of the polititions!

I am getting my drivetrain together and will jump on another chassis as soon as space and time allows. In the meantime, welcome to the new America!

 

It's been tight for our shop too . We work on "pleasure cars" for lack of a bettter term , and when money gets tight , that type of car tends to sit & not get the attention they need - or none at all . People spend their money elsewhere (as you can imagine) .

 

I'm just glad a couple of guys who appreciate the car got it. I know they won't ruin the car by finishing it out of character. I am looking forward to seeing it on the street this Fall. A few of my other cars haven't faired as well, but everything comes around!

I'm trying to get a bunch of stuff out of the shop over the next two weeks and with a clean slate I want to start on some Olds stuff and go from there.

 

That sucks... nothing worse than doing all that planning and building to have to get rid of it because of circumstances you can't control. I'm a big believer in karma, so I'm sure you'll get your dream car built and it will be worth the wait. keep your head up bud...

 

Yup, it really sucks when you have to ditch a whole project because of "circumstances"... I too believe in Karma.

 

Your best bet I think is to get caught up with all the cars up there, Kess' truck, fryguy's buick, Spillaneswillys' dodge, Sr.'s pickup cab, Aces's 32, even the old VW. Knock em out and clear the slate like you said. Small filler chassis jobs along the way are cool... But I know its hard juggling big projects like those and almost impossible to work on everything at the same time out of one bay.

 

Hey Koz, sorry to hear you passed your project along . Just last week somebody asked what I do..I replied."I'm a barefoot cobbler" ,well it sure seems that way at times.My track car is shelved indefinitely and I'm lookin at putting my loooong term 57 BA project on the road in bare metal as theres just no sign of havin money to paint it in the forseeable future.
Thankfully this year looks like it might be a little better than last year cashflow wise...

btw how do I find the shop owners group on here?

 

Pretty much what I'm doing. The problem I have is that only the small projects produce working income. The cab is done, the '32 is within a couple days. The Buick is waiting for access and the glass guys to set so I can finish that up. The Willys is within days waiting for a few parts to arrive. Kesses' truck seems to expand expotentially but is also down to the wire, but is pretty neat, and if nothing else should generate future work when it hits the streets this Spring. We just had a meeting yesterday to get the VW back in action. What doesn't show is the large amount projects that haven't gotten hung up on one thing or the other and have come and gone during the last year as well. With the exception of the Volks, which is a story by itself, the longest project here is Kesses truck, which was started a year ago this month. A lot of shops take a lot longer than that for a build this involved especially when probably a third of that time it has just been stored. I feel, for a small shop, I am pretty damn fast at completion especially at the build level I am working. My only scruple is I will not produce crap just to get something out the door even if it means I reach into my own pocket to make it right.

I need the space and as such I'm going to send everything down the road as quickly as I can. Unfortunately, the only way some of them are leaving is if I do the paying. Which was the whole point of doing what I've done. Most shops have a couple of projects setting around that they are waiting for the Owners to get funds together, or just waiting for parts to arrive or be sourced. I don't have the space to store them and as such they bring my cash flow to zero when I can't turn cars quickly. It is almost impossible to solve this problem in a small shop. I have been avoiding growth, not because I don't have adequate work, but because I just got out of that a few years ago in the other business where I had over 50 people working. I made a bunch of cash but my life was hell. Now I have a good life but little cash! This is my third year of doing this full time and I keep getting better at it.

The passing of this T is not bothering me at all. I'll be back on another project soon. This one went to a good home and if the economy doesn't improve, that one may well go too. Sooner or later ones gonna' stick.

Fleet-master, The owners group is called "Los Jefes Consados". It is run by NTXCustoms and there is a load of good info there.

 

I have been avoiding growth, not because I don't have adequate work, but because I just got out of that a few years ago in the other business where I had over 50 people working. I made a bunch of cash but my life was hell. Now I have a good life but little cash! This is my third year of doing this full time and I keep getting better at it.



Fleet-master, The owners group is called "Los Jefes Consados". It is run by NTXCustoms and there is a load of good info there.[/QUOTE]



Man, sounds like we have lived parallel lives at some point or another! I too am digging on just working for and with me. I too had a business at one time with four stores and fifty employees. I used to refer to my business as my geriatric kinder care because to the person at the time every one of those employees were almost double my age. Then came the corporate career and being one of two or three responsible for the actions of up to 2500 and 277 stores nationwide... I am happy as hell to be in my little shop turning out high quality work at the pace that I do... Just not quite used to being broke yet!!!

It's gonna get better. It has to!

 

So many of us came from the same backround. I think you need the prior abuse to be a survivor in a rod shop. People who have been used to having someone take care of the tough decisions will never survive. I'm no dummy and I'm no quitter. The decision to do this is based on what I wanted to do with the second half of my working career. I spent 40 years in the toughest construction market in the country, (mainline/center city Philadephia, and did well. The guys who lost their job for whatever reason and elect to open a shop because they are tired of abuse have an awakening coming. There are a lot of great shops out there, (and some crappy ones too), and the competition is tough. Working capital is nearly entirely self generated as I'm sure my Banker is still laughing when I inquired about a biz note, which is a formality in my last venture. In prep for this venture I took a few years and worked for Dana Corp, where they paid me well to learn tooling, fabrication, and metallurgy that would make most engineers envious. I watched my Dad make a comfortable living out of his shop from 1954 to 67' when he took a more mainstream job mostly for my mothers sake which I understand. She wanted her kids to grow up in a middle American lifestyle, go to college, (which I did, I have two Batchelors), and do well. IMHO he never was truly happy again. His heart and sole was in the whine of a hot Flatty and later Chevy 409's and big blocks. A lot of the stuff that I build today was developed in his shop. I could go on for hours about the stuff built in that shop.

I don't have a lot of years left to work, but as long as I have guys with the faith I me to trust me with their hard earned toys I'm doing it!

 

That attitude is why you're still in business!

My '27 T Roadster build: www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t= 734383

 

If they ain't paying tell them to take their cars home or spend $50 and pay a friend to tow them to their front lawn so the next customer can get in who is ready to go with cash. That's what I say. You can't offer free storage in a two bay shop while people get their shit together. Being nice is great but it don't pay the bills.

 

yup... if they have no money, why try to pay someone to build your car. Get into another hobby. Like one you can afford... like bowling.

 

Im with Jerry on this Koz. I have been patiently waiting to get the Buick done. It will be a year next month since we got it up there. I know I gave the olds motor as a deposit as that what you wanted for your t bucket. I have cash waiting to pay you to finish it up.
You have Kess's truck in there for over a year as well and you says he hasn't paid you. Let me know, I'll tow the truck out of there and drop it off at his house for free if it gets my Buick in the shop.

Meanwhile, while I'm waiting, I see more cars piling up there in various stages of builds yet there's still no room for my Buick. I think its the fact that I'm a nice guy and I don't get angry or scream and yell. Since I'm not complaining, then theres no reason to work on my stuff.

I really like you Larry and the work you do but you have spread yourself waaay toooo thin. You start bringing in more work without having the original work finished. If the other guys aren't paying you have to make the business decision for the best interest of your business.

If my Buick is too much for you let me know, I'll pull it out of there to free up some space for you, if you'd rather have the guys cars in there that you have to chase down for cash.

Right now, I just look at it as its free storage for me.

 

hmmm

 

I brought up his shit before on this same thread... after calling him out on working on this pos fiber glass car. (A professional metal guy bolting on a mail order tub)
I still have the 6 months of emails telling me the cab is done and lie after lie. The best is he said he never met me, until I put a photo up of our cars sitting together at a club meeting. lol He than quickly deleted all my posts. The best is the guy that originally had the cab showed up last week and with some words in his face. got Larry working on it... big surprise its done now, and was done in a couple of days. The same cab He told me would take weeks to build because it was so bad. I,m the 3rd guy I know he has screwed with lies. Don't know how he even has a so called shop. This will all be deleted as soon as he gets on the hamb. so just a waste of time.

 

And btw Kess, fryguy is a stand up guy... just another victum of Larry's bs. don't blame him. lol

 

Fryguy, herd your Buick is still in a snow covered shed... He has not even touched it! You shouldn't be so nice, plus he needs that storage to put someone's car in and tell them he's busy working. I love how he screws over old club members... maybe he can fix all this with another sad story to take your mind off it.

 

Just made popcorn

 

Hope everyone's projects get done.looks like Kess edited his post, but did he say he had $35K in that truck and it ain't done yet?

I'd stick a fork in this whole thread.. It's done. What a shame

 

This is my last post on this matter. And if anybody thinks they have any other info please feel free to post.

I admit I am a mile behind on finishing things up and have been working my tail off trying to get caught up. I have made no effort to hide that fact. The problem seems to come from the fact that I need to work on small projects that pay for the other stuff. For the record.....

DrivewayBuilder... Since we have been down this road before. When I was asked to do the cab for Senior along with the frame for another project he elected not to do later. I took a deposit of $1,200 for parts and panels for both the frame and the body which I spent just slightly over $1,400.00 on both, no labor ever billed. Approximately 5 days after, and no more, we agreed to do this work I informed Sr. that the rear panels would not be available from my supplier until Sept/Oct. I understand this happens sometimes and as such. I understand. I have no bitch with my tinman. I secured and installed the available panels which included the front quarters, inner and outer door skins, front shoes, and subrails, and installed the bearjaw latches within days. The cab sat like that for some time as I waited. I wasn't aware until later that the cab had been sold and the new owner obviously wanted the finished product. I pride myself on nice work and do not ship trash!!!!! I reluctantly conceded to patch up the existing field cab, and it did not suit me. As the pics below show the cab as it sits today. The only thing I did in the last few months was put the back on as I couldn't get it onto the loft to store it in one piece.

I now have 41.25 hrs. of labor in this cab which I'm sure is on the house. It doesn't suit me, but I will say the cab is square and straight and the doors work beautifully. The skins and everything else I did with the available panels is very nicely done. The rest of the metal work is pretty much shit and I don't do that kind of work. When I spoke with DrivewayBuilder on several occasions I was just going to send this down the road but I couldn't bring myself to do it. My apologies but I've cut this cab apart several times now. I'm still not happy but it is what it is because I'm not sure if the panels are currently available, but if they are I don't think I have an obligation to donate them to the project.

Pics taken a few minutes ago.





The rear, green part is the original panels and is pathetic! This cab would probably not have been saved by most people. IMHO, I think the original owner felt the cab was better than it was and the new owner, DrivewayBuilder, is used to my typical work.

As to Fryguys Buick. I have not gotten as much as I like done on this because it basically takes my whole shop up. I need to do small projhects at the same time I do these other ones because as a fact of life, I need to pay my bills! I always have two projects I'm working on at the same time. The Buick, when it came here had been started by another shop which had some problems and as such sat outside under a tarp, in bare metal, for two years before it came here. When I started on it surface rust had crept under the Bondo work and it took and still takes a bunch of metalwork to make it right. As anybody who knows this type of work, picking up where somebody left off is often tougher than starting from scratch. I'm not bitching, it's a great project that appreciate working on. It is indeed in the storage barn until I can move some stuff around. I know this has been a tough year and I'm just now starting to get caught up. In the interim I have paid approximately $800 in storage along with the $1,000 I am giving as a credit for the Olds motor that Fryguy is using as part of the cost of this project. I am not saying anything bad about any of the guys mentioned here as I think they are all standup guys as was mentioned before.

Just so you know my position, and I know the guy who started this last round forgot to mention is the motor turned out to be trashed inside. I was hoping to put it in my T and when it turned out to be unusable I decided to off the project to pay for the motor work. As a routine I ran a compression check on the motor befre I did anything to it and two cylinders came up virtually dead. Upon opening it up I discovered the motor, although recently rebuilt, had the wrong timing chain installed and as such the new chain had in excess of 1" of play which allowed the cam to float and stuck the valves in 3 & 5 into the pistons and wiped the cam. The slack chain, I believe is what did this along with wiping out the cam bearings and several rods and mains when the cam went, which is not uncommon.

I know that both Fryguy and Homemadehardtop heard this motor run on the floor, so I do not blame either of them for the problems. They Owner ran the motor with no oil pressure gauge in and the headers open, so I'm sure they had no knowledge and they were the ones deceived. The engine probably idled, barely. I still am honoring my part as it is a risk you take with every motor. The only reason I post this is because it seems a bunch of guys seem to think I made out on this deal, which I haven't. I now have $1,800 in a 324 Olds core which is pretty fair in my eyes.

I need to go to the shed and post some pics of the Buick as it sets. It is not here at the moment obviously.

There is a '34 Dodge here that is waiting on a few parts and otherwise is ready to go for inspection.

As to Kesses truck. This thing has been here the longest of anything, a year in construction now. Most of you have been following this for some time now and know the truck well. Kess has been out of funds to work on this for some time now. It's not his fault but any labor going into it from last August or so is out of my pocket. I know he had no idea of what it costs to build one of these when he came to me he stated he wanted to build a "Ratrod" as is evidenced in the first few posts of his build thread. The truck took on a life of its own and there was never a time, except for technical details, that I did anything to that truck that I had not discussed with him first. I never discuss client budgets publicly but as of this writing I have right around $15,000 in labor in a 100% hand crafted and pretty damn cool truck. This includes many reworks including adding an inch to the top after it was chopped and fighting with the doors forever in what was also a cab somebody else had started on and pretty much trashed If any other shop would have touched this they would have had that in the chassis alone. I make no apologies about the cost or the build time on this critter and I have never stopped working on it. I have told Kess that I would get it far enough for inspection as I had time and, am doing so. He has been giving me a hundred here and there to by parts. In the meantime, it remains covered in the shop. I don't think we have ever had shitty words between us and I continue to stick to that. I don't think another shop on earth would do that and I never will again.

I only have one other project waiting, which is a Cali Bug that has been here forever. The Owner was in no rush and I work on it when I get time.

The problem here is I cannot keep the doors open on one project at a time. I need to fit these small things in between the other work so I have some cash to pay the bills. I can't remember the last time I actually billed a client for ever hour I had into something but I damn well will from now on. There have been many, many smaller projects through here in the interim and I will continue to do so.

For the benefit of the HAMB Forum, All of the above stuff seems to revolve around the old club I was in for whatever reason. Just for the record, I was one of the first wave of members in that club and I think I served well as Both Vice President and President. I wrote the original bylaws and think I put the club on good footing for the future. I left of my own accord and have never said a bad word about the organization. I can't understand why this shit keeps popping up time and again. The shop is always open and I'm very accessable. If anybody wants their car back I understand. Come and get them. There is nothing here that has been longer than any other shop. There is nothing here that I have taken money on and not used for parts for that project which I have once again been accussed of. In fact at this time I have no money from anybody on deposit and I have no advances on labor from anybody! I live like a pauper to build these things and hopefully things will eventually improve.

I have a pretty trashed out '32 in here that I'll have out of here within the week. If anybody would like to pick up the $1,000 it takes to run this place each week I'll be glad to put their car first. (Only kidding, everybody knows I don't work 12 hr, 7 day weeks).

I'm planning on having everything out of here in the next month or so as long as I don't have any more disasters this year and then I plan to start charging appropriately and otherwise the place can set vacant! Right now I use the capital produced by the small jobs to complete the larger, mostly unfunded, projects. I guess that makes me a thief, liar and total asshole.

Hope this explaination helps everybody to understand. I didn't think selling my 5th project in the last year or two would generate so much controversy. I just want everybody to understand, I made virtually no money out of this shop last year and rationally should have done what so many others have done and moved on. I still have faith because I have a lot of good clients and get an enourmous amount of work out of here in a week. There has probably been fifty jobs through here in the last year including several for my former club mates. The ones listed above seem to be the only ones that are problemchilds and as such I'm going to redouble efforts to get them out of here.

 

save your popcorn... this will all deleted any min I'm sure. And yes KeystoneKid... 35grand into a unfinished truck. Feel bad for Kess, he could have bought a beautiful show car/truck for that. Its a shame Kess's post was taken down. Now none of our posts make any sense.

 

I agree that Kess may well have that much money in the truck. He buys a lot of the parts directly and as such I don't see the slips. As to the cost this truck would have cost much more at any other shop. This truck is built like something that would have come out of SoCal or Posies. It is not a typical build. I would ask how much this frame would have cost out of ElPolacko's shop. There are a lot of high dollar parts on this truck including the SoCal stainless front end, $1,000 in special wheel adapters to put the wires on the Buick and GM drums, some very expensive wires, $300 fog lights, a set of $300 hinges, (all stuff he bought, I made nothing on), etc., etc. Some of the high dollar items he supplied never were used as the project progressed, unfortunately a cost of building the truck. The gauges in the dash alone are huge dollars. Most of the money is in parts and materials. My labor, over the course of the year is right around $15,000 which I consider a bargain at the number of hours involved. I spent an enormous amount of time just going through the drivetrain, which was changed from an automatic to stick after the chassis was already done.

Anybody who has ever built anything like this knows what it costs to do so.

Larry, as a comparison, you are aware of Howies 'glass '32 This car was built by another shop around here that used an off shelf chassis and drivetrain along with just putting the body in primer and it cost right around $60,000. This is for a fiberglass car, no disrespect to Howie, but not anything unique.

This truck should be near there now. Kess has been doing well on this. Most guys have no idea of what it costs to build one from scratch using the level of parts and fabrication this truck took. I am still the least expensive shop in the area and make no apologies for what this one or any other car in here costs to build. Hot Rods are not investment grade stuff. They do generally cost more to build than they sell for. Kess has never said to me anything other than he wanted to finish the truck and drive it, (except maybe that one bummer day when we couldn't get the wheels to work). If he wanted to flip this, but probably not on the HAMB or Ebay, maybe hot rod Hotline or the Goodguys, I'm sure he could get his investment, or very close, back. This truck, when finished will get magazine coverage I'm sure and if offered should do well if sold through the right channels. As we all know, if you don't see the project through, return goes down considerably.

 

Larry your something else... I don't care how you flip shit on here like saying every body calling you out is "stand up guys" so you can look like the good guy just being picked on or something. And to post pics of that cab and admit you just finished it up now is even more damning evidence since I still have the emails telling me how it is in primer and strait as an arrow. And if you have over 40 hrs in that, than I see how you have so much time in Kess's truck. Also, no one ever said you rip people off or even do bad work... its all because you keep lying. If you were just strait with people you wouldn't have guys pissed off at you. Its a small circle of guys that are into this shit, let alone not build there own stuff, so I don't get it. I don't care about the cab, sold all the stuff for it I had. I just hate seeing other guy go through what I did with you.

 

Just curious..since you have the camera out...post some current pics of Spillanneswillys car that's ready for inspection.. Would like to see how it's going. Sounds like a neat project




Driveway Builder do you really have emails that say that about the cab posted above?

 

Holly Drama Batman!! lol I live near koz's shop or "Garage besides his his house" he won't send pics of that dodge, you can see it from the road in pieces peeking out of the snow with a tarp wrapped around it. lol

 

haha... leave the guy alone now. No worries here, the cab is going back to the og owner I here.

 

What???? The 34 Dodge he says is ready for inspection in the post above?




Guy lets just get back to the cars!