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When is enough enough?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Chaz, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. acadian_carguy
    Joined: Apr 23, 2008
    Posts: 795

    acadian_carguy
    Member

    I agree!
     
  2. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,734

    mcmopar
    Member
    from Strum, wi

    If you push your self on every job you do, your work will only get better. Set a reasonable standard for yourself and stick to it. If you can't respect the work you do nobody else will either. In the end they all get mud.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  3. fatkoop
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 713

    fatkoop
    Member

    After reading these posts. I feel a whole lot better. There is no way in hell I could ever completely metal finish my projects. I believe in taking it as far as I feel comfortable with, make sure it is solid and fully welded, and then fill, sand, repeat as needed.
     
  4. Mudslinger
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,964

    Mudslinger
    Member

    An old friend of mine that's been in the business pushing fifty years says "if it aint got it, its gonna get it" meaning bondo.
     
  5. luke13
    Joined: Oct 25, 2013
    Posts: 381

    luke13
    Member

    i think the only way you would get a perfect metal finish is if you stamped the part with the origonal factory press.
     
  6. silent rick
    Joined: Nov 7, 2002
    Posts: 5,207

    silent rick
    Member

    i would need to start out with metal at least a 1/4 inch thick to metal finish it to a point where i felt comfortable. then the layers of filler would start. it doesn't matter how thick. i usually sand it all off anyway. i don't know when to stop. it might be a personality flaw. i'm such a hack.
     
  7. bob cutler
    Joined: Jul 8, 2009
    Posts: 291

    bob cutler
    Member

    I just leave mine the way mother nature was done working on it!
     
  8. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    You bring up a good point...which is why I shake my head at guys who feel the best way to strip paint off an old car is with a 7" right angle grinder and a 36 grit disc.
     
  9. At least that 1\8" of bondo will NEVER rust!
     
  10. Uptown83
    Joined: Apr 23, 2007
    Posts: 722

    Uptown83
    Member

    Try and do the best you can with metal and bondo away. For the most part 99℅ should be thin 1/8 thing but you will get a spot or two where you have a 1/4 spot give or take
     
  11. That is the best way- the secret is to aim for 1/2 the paint thickness not bare metal.
     
  12. church-st-coachworks
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 8

    church-st-coachworks
    Member
    from wisconsin

    prep work is the key to nice plastic filler work. thinner the better obviously but keep in mind alot of ppl use only multiple coats of high build primer to fix their "metal finished" panels witch can be done but you must let it cure longer than a nicely finished filler piece. on the showcar builds we spread a thin coat of filler over the entire car and sand it like an initial primer coat it is alot more stable than primer and will shrinkage much less down the line. followed by an initial high build primer that is rough cut starting with 120 and finished in 240 re primed and prepped for paint. this has been a perfect way to straighten out a car and have the finish last for decades. we had a willys that came in for a scratch repair a wile back we painted it 10 yrs earlier and it looked like the day it left the shop using this process. using quality products will help the longevity we give lifetime warranties on all the cars that we do from ground up. my 2cents
     
  13. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,827

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    Excessive grinding seems to be the #1 sin done by inexperienced and misinformed metal finishers. Better LESS DESTRUCTIVE tools to mark highs include a dull vixen file and even a board wrapped with 180. That's were the term "pick and file" come from. Pick and grind can ruin a good panel. Once sheet metal is ground thin there is no going back. Another aid to use is spray can guide coat (black or white) It works just as well on bare steel as it does on primer for finding highs and lows during the pick and file stage. If plastic body filler will be used than a FEW LIGHT passes with a new sharp disc will make good tooth for the filler. Other than that I can't think if any good reason to grind sheet metal panels. No grind at all for lead fill.
    Metal finishing also requires a thorough understanding of how and when to shrink or stretch.
    John
     
  14. church-st-coachworks
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 8

    church-st-coachworks
    Member
    from wisconsin

    i also like to spray my panels with epoxy primer after metal working it has etching properties and it can be sanded with 120 and bodyworked over so there is less of a chance of corrosion from toughing the metal. bare metal i like to use a dual action sander to abrade the metal rather than grinders its alot more gentle. i have dug into alot of cracked filler and have seen most of it is from bad metal work not necessarily the thickness. when ppl try to stretch out their mig welds too much they form hair line cracks if they would have been less agressive in trying to work them up to try to metal finish them it prob wouldnt have failed i use tig or oxy when im shaping for that reason but your average do-it your-selfer probably has access to a mig
     
  15. flatoutflyin
    Joined: Jun 16, 2010
    Posts: 385

    flatoutflyin
    Member

    Excellent advice in both of your posts. After 40 years of body work, I now find I prefer preservation type unrestored cars. I'm better able to resist that drive for perfection.
     
  16. 57linc
    Joined: Feb 7, 2008
    Posts: 13

    57linc
    Member

    Back around 1976, I visited Harrahs Automobile Collection In Reno a couple years before he died. Any of you that went there then saw his crew working on very rare and classic cars as well as Hot rods as part of the tour. One i remember getting body work was about a 1937 Buggati i think 57c, the little sporty job. All the paint was stripped off and low and behold there was filler on it- very sparsely but there it was. It surprised me that it looked the same as the filler i used on my 10 year old chevy PU. As I remember, that car won Pebble Beach the next year. So, even when a guy who has mucho bucks and some of the best body guys in the world has some filler on his expensive cars I suppose its okay.
     
  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I once worked for an over-grinder, who insisted that he was "metal-finishing" everything. Just about everything that went into paint ended up with a skim-coat of filler anyways. Now, he's got a angry little line of customers with cracks all over the place, from paper-thin metal. 1/32" to 1/8" of filler would have prevented all of this, taken less time, and cost the customer less in labor, too.

    Don't be that guy.

    If you prepared the surface properly underneath, for both structural integrity, and adhesion, NOBODY IS EVER GOING TO KNOW that you used a little filler, nor should they care, since that is what it is for, and why it was invented.

    I have watched folks bump, shrink, pick and file a panel, over the period of a business-month, and it still needed a little filler.

    Bumped, filled, and blocked, yielding the exact same perceived results, after sealer, in my hands, done in 4-1/2 hours.

    If you want a metal-finished car, build ONE, just one, clear-coat it, and use it as a rolling business card for your shop. Let that be the testament to what you can achieve, if someone is willing to pay that much.

    If you don't own a shop, just put the filler on, and get on to driving.
     
  18. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    Sounds like the two tone yellow Type 57SC, one of my all time favorite Bugattis. I got to see that car at Harrah's when it was in bare aluminum too. Most of those cars had filler in them when they were new, the fenders were made from many pieces welded into one piece. Bob :)
     
  19. Grinding down high spots is really sort of stupid on sheet metal. You are just trading one problem for another bigger one in the future.
    The high spots need to go away because they are the cause of infinite frustration getting a panel straight. Bringing up the low spots is the easy part of the process. But bringing up the entire panel to the same level as the high spot is almost just as stupid as grinding the high spot down.


    I tried explaining this to my buddy this way.
    Maybe I'm FOS ????

    Picture your kitchen counter top, its pretty damn flat right?
    Ok now picture a dent or divot it it, fill the divot and its pretty damn flat again.
    Now picture a dime glued to the middle of the counter to simulate a high spot, not so flat any more. In order for the counter to be flat again by filling, you'll need to ad filler over the entire surface and sand it back to the thickness of that one Damn dime. Not 1 foot around it, not 2 feet, the entire surface. God help you if you hit the dime sanding because now you need to skim the crap again and start over.
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Bump up the low spots as close as you can. Pick down the high-spots to at or just below the overall profile. Fill. Get over it, and move on. Life is too short already.
     
  21. Crystal Blue
    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 609

    Crystal Blue
    Member

    As I learned from a custom boat builder many many years ago.

    A little putty,
    A little paint,
    Make it look like what it ain't. :D
     
  22. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,306

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

  23. church-st-coachworks
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 8

    church-st-coachworks
    Member
    from wisconsin

    yes i like that 4 to 1 its great over fiberglass! sands like a rock so you know its durable still need to topcoat with a 2k primer sufacer thogh we use that alot on vettes it locks down the transition between fiberglass and filler keeps it from ringing later on in life.
     

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