hemi adapter - HH or wilcap -- issues?

OK I have a 55 Desoto hemi and will put a 700R4 behind it (hey, no one will see the transmission!) and it's come down to a Wilcap or Hotheads adapter ... now the only questions I have are:

(1) I've seen comments that if you use XX's adapter you have to remove the pan / main bearing to install the adapter / pull the engine to remove the transmission... blah blah

Anyone who has actually used a Wilcap / HH adapter: have you had that experience? From what I've seen on their sites, installation (and later trans removal) is straightforward and without those issues... true?

(2) With either you have the option of putting the starter on the driver's or passenger's side -- question here is why would anyone put the starter on the driver's side?

(3) If both adapters are equally good, why pay the substantially extra cost of the wilcap?

(Yes I have searched many of the hemi threads -- that's where I found these issues raised, but no answers. )

 

Thanks for the info, Jeff.

Here's an oddity: Speedway has the Wilcap adapter on ebay (#392-350), I asked which side the starter bolts on for this adapter, or whether I had a choice when ordering --
Their answer: "The starter mounts on the drivers side.

That would seem to be the less popular side -- is Wilcap getting rid of them through Speedway?

Has anyone ordered one of them via Speedway/ebay? If so, what's the deal on starter mounting?

 

great timing with these questions! I am about to make a similar order (manual trans).

I too have heard that HH sells wilcap adapters so I will most likely be going HH

 

See post 9 photos --
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=828936&highlight=wilcap+adapter

Does Speedway know what it is talking about, or selling?

 

I have heard that, and vice-versa, but don't know if either is true.

 

HotHeads sells some Wilcap adapters. But I don't believe that the hemi to gm is one of those.
I also seem to recall that the problem with installation is that there is no access through the front of the adapter to reach the convertor bolts.

 

I have used a few HH chevy/hemi adapters. No issues at all. Here down under I prefer the starter on your drivers side because we are RHD and frees up space for steering issues. I have worked on one with other side starter, but much better on the left for us. Converter bolts can be a little hard to get at, but still can torque them.

 

I used a HH adapter for my 331 long bell to a GM manaul trans. I understand its a different adapter, but it was very nice came with all stainless hardware and a nice pilot bushing adapter for a fair price. I also bought a Wilcap Adapter for my 390 Cadillac to a GM manual trans. The flywheel centerhole was extremly tight on the crank and the flywheel bolts included were too long. they would have hit the block and rear main if I used them, and the heads were ground half off so I had to come up with my own bolts. So that being said I liked HH better.

 

Bob said on his Forum that his full circle adaptors are made to be bolted up before the oil pan goes on, therefore if you don't have room to drop the pan you'd have to pull the engine & tranny to get either out. Should be obvious on the rear sumps, but no mention was made of center sumps if they were in the same boat.

 

I have a HH adaptor on my DeSoto Hemi, with none of the issues above.Like D-Russ, I will cut off the extra material so it doesn't stand out so much.

You can get them from HH with the starter on either side. I chose driver side so I could have the oil filter hanging vertically so as to not dump oil everywhere when I remove it.

 

I questioned Speedway again and linked those photos -- they responded:

"I'm sorry, you are correct. It does mount on the passenger/right side of the car. It can't be swapped because of the alignment pins for the transmission."

The Speedway photo of the Wilcap adapter on ebay also looks like a right side adapter -- so apparently that's what they are offering.
If you want a Wilcap, that may be where to buy it -- lower price than direct from Wilcap.

 

Make sure you mock up everything before you permanently install, s.ome machining may be required

 

On the Wilcap?

I thought these (and the HH) were bolt-on items... what was your experience?

 

I got my adapter from Wilcap. It was listed as a 318-392 adapter. I have a 727 behind my 341 and the starter is on the driver side. My friend got the Hot Heads adapter for his 341 and it takes the Chevy trans. The starter is on the passenger side. Another friend got the HH adapter for his 241 Dodge. He tried to put on a 904, but the starter was wouldn't line up with the locater boss in the tranny. It is way off. He is now looking for a 727 for it. My guess is that Wilcap and HH are different.

 

Quick answer is that some folks who buy these adapters live in countries outside the USA who have the steering on the otherside of the car, so it is a good idea to offer components to a broader market...

 

The 904 won't work for that reason, a real shame on the low deck Dodge & DeSotos considering the small CID.

 

So I went and bought a Wilcap adapter for my Desoto 291 / 700R4 combo and whaddaya know, the flywheel bolts are too long !!

The heads of the bolts are supposed to come ground down so they don't contact the converter, and my crankshaft spacer is tight on the crankshaft hub -- I will tap it on with a rubber hammer -- but can't they get those bolts right? Should be 7/16-20 x 1-1/4" not 1-1/2" ... I will call Wilcap about them tomorrow and see what they say.

Otherwise everything else looks good....

 

Warm the spacer up in a pot of boiling water

 

Or in the oven.....

I had forgotten that's the way we would get the starter ring gear on a Model A flywheel: ring in oven, flywheel in freezer....

 

Betty Crocker says aluminum adapters need 275 for 20 mins no oven preheat needed.

 

I used the HH adapter to mate my 331 to a GM350 trans. Starter on drivers side, no interference to steering. My '36 Dodge steering box mounts on top the frame, and the pitman arm is outside the frame, with the drag link. I have the oil filter adapter with the long Wix filter hanging straight down, no spills when changing oil, no room for starter there.

 

The hub adapter should fit onto the crankshaft without heat or a hammer.

 

I think only yours fit like they are supposed to Tom.
I had a wilcap here that wouldn't come loose. Little propane (30-45seconds) and it fell off. Same thing going back on, wouldn't fit until it was warmed up.

 

Yea, thats exactly how mine were. I underestand why they grind the heads of the bolts for some but in my application it was not required.

 

The problem is that MotherMopar, for whatever reason, chose to move the starter about ½" higher on the 904. Since all small blocks have the same bellhousing bolt pattern the starter deal is just goofy.

On an EarlyHemi, the ½" is critical so they are 727 only, even if it is a 241.

.

 

I called Wilcap to mention the long bolts -- they had not heard of this issue before. Maybe they will provide 1-1/4" bolts in the future, that's all the length you need (and all you want).

Anyway I took my 3" cut-off tool and just shortened the bolts that 1/4"

 

I know Im glad I checked before I went winding those bolts in. The reason I checked is because my father owns a auto salvage yard, its like having a Hot rod super walmart. Anyways a guy wanted to buy a rear main cap off of an engine because he swapped the standard trans for an auto, but didn't get different bolts for the flexplate. So he drove those long bolts right into the rear of the engine.destroying his rear main cap. Some storys you just dont forget.

 

Wilcap hemi to chevy auto adapter from Speedway. Was my first intall. All hardware provided and bolt heads came grinded down where needed to be already. Only small glitch I had was hub. It was a super tight fit. I had to use a scotch pad to remove light surface rust on the back of the crank.

 

So are you happy with the Wilcap or are you thinking you should have went with the Hot Heads? I also have the 291 Desoto Hemi and will be mating a 700R4 behind it. I haven't ordered my adapter yet so I find this thread helpful. I'm thinking I need to have the starter on the passenger side for better clearance, even though I hate the idea of having to remove the starter for an oil change. I see that both HH and Wilcap will allow you to put the starter on either side, so now it's just price, ease of install and customer support that I need to consider.