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Basic bodywork question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Chris, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. I may be opening a can of worms by asking...but I have been told serveral ways to do this and I want to get some opions.

    I have some fenders that I need to do a little filler work on. They are bare steel now. Should the filler be applied to bare steel, or would it be better is a primer or etch was applied first? Or, is it more a personal preferance?
     
  2. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,021

    chaddilac
    Member

    You can buy sealer that seals the metal and then do the body work right over the top of it.
     
  3. jakesbackyard
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 881

    jakesbackyard
    Member
    from ND
    1. Upholstery

    Here's my nickels worth:

    1. Clean and sand bare metal - 180 overall and 40-80 in areas where you know you need filler.

    2. Prime with Epoxy primer.

    3. Fill areas that require it.

    4. 2-4 coats of good fill primer overall.

    Most refinish companies recommend epoxy primer under filler. Never apply filler over etch primer.

    If the epoxy primer sits for too long (over a week) it should be scuffed before any thing goes over it.

    Good luck.
     
  4. djust
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,230

    djust
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    Ditto what Jake said.
    I had my A Sedan blasted and the blaster coated it with epoxy then I brought it home, for filler work.
     

  5. wahoo
    Joined: Feb 23, 2011
    Posts: 48

    wahoo
    Member

    Epoxy is definitely the way to go (under the filler.)
    Just be aware that you have to wait 24hrs. with most before filler is applied.Otherwise, it can shrink under the filler.
     
  6. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Filler goes over bare steel. Make sure there is no rust or holes behind and it will last.
     
  7. elba
    Joined: Feb 9, 2013
    Posts: 628

    elba
    Member

    I put my filler on bare steel that has been sanded with 180. My 2 cents worth.
     
  8. hemi
    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 1,959

    hemi
    Member

    The great debate is if you epoxy prime, and then work your filler within the "cure window," you are going to scrub off primer as you sand and work the high spots, and re-wipe. You'll still have areas under the filler in bare metal, if that's what you are worried about. When blasting an entire car, it's better to get some kind of coating on it to stop flash rusting, and they say you can do filler work over epoxy primer but a small repair area that you are sanding to bare metal and working, priming is not really as important unless you are going to let the open areas sit for any length of time.

    Personally, for me, if it's clean prepped metal, the filler bonds to it, and as you do your paint work everything underneath is sealed. But you ask ten cooks how to make soup, you'll get ten answers... Good luck.
     
  9. happy hoppy
    Joined: Apr 23, 2001
    Posts: 2,327

    happy hoppy
    Member

    would you sand or scuff the primer before applying filler over it?
    David
     
  10. jakesbackyard
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 881

    jakesbackyard
    Member
    from ND
    1. Upholstery

    I can't get it to copy and paste, but go here:

    http://www.evercoat.com/faq.aspx

    Evercoats FAQ says either way is good. Big thing is clean and get it covered.
     
  11. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,388

    Squablow
    Member

    Personally, I put filler over bare steel. Epoxy primer doesn't feather edge very well, and once you're done blocking it, you've taken all the epoxy off of the surrounding steel anyway.
     
  12. jakesbackyard
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 881

    jakesbackyard
    Member
    from ND
    1. Upholstery

    Only if it has set too long, but it won't hurt as long as it has cured.
     
  13. Gerry Moe
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 498

    Gerry Moe
    Member

    Many different opinions. I have had filler over epoxy sealer for the past five years and have had no sign of any problems.I to researched the question of filler over epoxy. Follow your filler and paint manufacturers application sheet. I know for sure evercoat rage works over epoxy, I had talked to them on the phone. Let your paint cure ( I let mine cure for 7 days) and scuff before filler app.
     
  14. Noland
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,235

    Noland
    Member

    its more of a personal preferance if you as me. I like to do it over bare metal . never had a problem.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
     
  15. slowmotion
    Joined: Nov 21, 2011
    Posts: 3,330

    slowmotion
    Member

    I don't do much body work anymore. But when I do, I mud over bare metal.

    Stay thirsty my friend....
     
  16. elba
    Joined: Feb 9, 2013
    Posts: 628

    elba
    Member

    By the way, when necessary, I thin filler with fiberglass resin. Try it.
     
  17. 40 years in the trade, and I've never seen epoxy used under filler in a body shop. Haven't ever seen a filler failure that I could in any way link to lack of epoxy. I did see a demo using epoxy a few years back. The filler pealed back off the edges when the guy sanded it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  18. Thanks guys, pretty 50/50 on answers. I've always done it over bare prepped steel, but I had a couple guys say it's best over primer. Just got me thinking (a bad thing)
     
  19. It's a way of "replacing " the galvanneal coating on modern sheet metal if you grind aggressively. Over time people have gotten the idea that it improves adhesion, and that it's the "correct way". Pretty much a myth, but you know how that goes. I call it an expensive and time consuming "fix" for a nonexistent problem.
     
  20. hotrod40coupe
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 2,561

    hotrod40coupe
    Member

    I prefer using it over metal. I think you get a stronger bond that way.
     
  21. Old school over bare metal; new school over self etching and epoxy primer. Both work, my .02.
     
  22. Rusty Heaps
    Joined: May 19, 2011
    Posts: 949

    Rusty Heaps
    Member

    my '50 has bondo from the early '60s applied directly to bare steel and is still solidly on the body. See avatar fender and front door
     
  23. Both work, but most companies that make the filler recomend filler over the primer.
     
  24. JZACK
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 50

    JZACK
    Member

    Absolutely to go epoxy primer sealer and then body filler. Filler has liquid in it and since you could maybe seal in moisture go with sealer first, always worked for me and no problems....
     
  25. autobodyed
    Joined: Mar 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,943

    autobodyed
    Member
    from shelton ct

    the only time i put filler over epoxy is when i do sail panels, rockers, and windshield pillars and anything else that is leaded from the factory. i just etch prime my bare metal, grind for body work. when bodywork is feathered, clean, then scuff entire panel with 220 grit dry and red scratch pad, re-etch, let flash, then 2 part prime. 2 coats on bodywork, then 2 coats on entire panel.
     
  26. falconsprint63
    Joined: May 17, 2007
    Posts: 2,358

    falconsprint63
    Member
    from Mayberry

    you can go either way. I know this is a shocking suggestion, but read the directions on the filler you're using. I generally find that following the directions works for this type of stuff.
     
  27. thebearded1
    Joined: Apr 29, 2013
    Posts: 6

    thebearded1
    Member

    If the bare metal is rust free you will need to grind , sandblast the area's you want to put filler in as it needs to have something to grip onto The Bearded I Kustoms
     
  28. Autodave
    Joined: Jul 28, 2013
    Posts: 125

    Autodave
    Member
    from Menifee,Ca

    I have 25 yrs. in the trade, I have never seen it either. I have only put it over bare metal. Proper prep work is essential.
     
  29. TV
    Joined: Aug 28, 2002
    Posts: 1,451

    TV
    Member

    I have done it both ways, and if done right it will last for years either way. Just make sure it is clean no matter which way you do it and it will last.--TV
     
  30. X2......My experience exactly.
     

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