I cringe with angst every time I think of bolting an accessory to the front of my blown hemi engine. I'm more than reasonably certain that this is not rooted in vanity. I snagged an electric unit from a bone yard just to see if it would fit. I'm still not sure if ill use it but if I were to use it, it does help with positioning the wheel and steering column for the driver, dodging the huge hemi head and gives a better angle to the box. Of course this is all doable without the electric unit but if it fits and lightens the load what's the problem? @ $ 6000.00 I'm not interested at all. @ $1300.00 ill look but not very hard. @ $ 600.00 I'm pretty interested. (Link I posted earlier) @ $25.00 for a mock up unit from my friend, I jumped for a test fit.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I've never had a car with power steering, and if I ever do it'd be something big and heavy. I think the thing serious engineers see in electric power steering is the ease of varying assist according to speed or whatever parameter you want. That - and light weight, compared to all the bits of a hydraulic system - has allowed the sorts of extremely direct steering ratios now favoured in many forms of motorsport. Me, I still steer the way Piero Taruffi says one ought, so I have little use for less than, say, 1.8 turns lock-to-lock. On a heavy car I might have electric power steering on a switch, though, for use at parking speeds.
Now I mean come on.... OBVIOUSLY there will be cars that don't fit the normal way of doing things...and I'm fully convinced a car like yours is one of them for multiple reasons! If YOU need power steering to help manage that heavyweight engine there probably isn't a better setup out there. Realisticly though...you are an exception to the rule! (Congratulations!) Actually, my "vanity" statement was meant more for a car with a full hood over a custom engine cover and not a wire or hose in sight. I just can't wrap my head around trying to make an engine look like a chunk of molded plastic...at any cost.
Power steering pumps have been run off the rear end on circle track cars, although not much anymore. Rear end cooler pumps were run off them as well but now most are run by ironically an electric pump.
Interesting.....I've got an HHR panel and it has the electric PS. I love it, especially in really cold weather where conventional PS systems feel heavy and stiff in the cold temps. Mine has over 70,000 miles and no problems with it at all. I'm guilty of not knowing anything about it, even not knowing where it's mounted. If it EVER warms up again, I might clear the snow off the little car and take a look at the PS unit if I can find it.
I was looking at one of the GM units the other day. (Saturn I believe) The steering shaft goes right straight through it, so if it looses power, you still have full control, just no power assist. In fact the one I looked at had a bad motor and was driven to the garage by its owner.
Man if I had a $1.00 for every time I heard that "exception to the rule " business I'd be pretty happy. Now when did rules get put onto hot rods? I didn't get the memo. An engine should look like an engine period, especially here. Clean tidy less is more strictly business and easy to work on. Hiding things usually makes the visual impact better but harder to work on. That 62 409 engine compartment thread that was bouncing around a few months ago is a perfect example of less is more.
I realise that many folks have grown up with the idea that power steering is ubiquitous, but that is not the world that I grew up in. Power steering is NOW ubiquitous as, in part, a sales tool. Try telling a new car customer that your $16,000 econobox does not have power steering, when every other POS does. You should have seen even the 'rats' cringe at a Versa's crank windows (it had PS). So. I worked for a long time at Wonder bread/Hostess cake. We had WOMEN there who drove step vans through the city of Chicago with manual steering and manual transmissions. And they got hit on, too, if you're thinking "East German swim team". My thought, after a lifetime of manual steering (my wife and daughter have no problem with our Falcon, neither did my 70 year old grandmother, who got her first PS car when she turned 80). Fix the problem with your car first, BEFORE band-aiding a "solution". Unless you're putting it on a lot with 200 other cars, and competition contenting cars over and above yours, stop the insanity. Yeah, I'm a little cranky today. Cosmo
I don't quite understand. It's a high-torque, low-speed electric motor the rotor of which is directly or indirectly part of the steering column, controlled by some way of signalling the torque between the steering wheel and the steering box/rack/etc. Surely that is possible to rig as one sees fit? I don't see myself wanting any effect at all above a walking pace. I'd rather pick the steering ratio according to the desired level of effort and the weight on the front wheels for most conditions. I can live with the tiny rotational slack necessary for the signalling function, as long as that is independent of any external input to pollute my sense of steering loading. So I'd like to be able to disable the steering assist entirely when I'm not actually doing a seventeen-point turn. The advantage here, especially if like me you have philosophical reasons to have no digital electronics, no code, in a car, is that the control system of such a parking-only can be extremely simple: effectively two on-off switches in a conventional self-correcting servo arrangement. The switch on the dash lets me lose all the micro-electronics.
Has anyone ever considered an "oval track-ish" drive treatment for the alternator, PS and perhaps even an AC unit all run off the bell housing instead of the front end? How cool would it be if you could hide all that junk behind the engine and under whatever recesses you'd need in the firewall / tranny tunnel to make room for it. They aren't that big, but that rig might limit your tranny choices. Gary http://krcpower.blogspot.com/2010/12/kennesaw-ga_22.html
I get you on the literal "rule" thing. It's difficult to, in 20 words or less, make your point most times. Theres no real rules...expectations maybe? All I know is that to make yourself perfectly clear, with no chance of misinterpretation, every post made to a message board would rival a 10 page Lawyers agreement! Impossible. For sanity and speed you have to say your piece as simply as you can and hope it covers at least most of the cars etc etc you're talking about. In that hope, somewhere, lie's the definition of "rules" that I meant. Your second paragraph proves to me that we aren't on opposite sides of this at all...just different perspectives!
On a heavy car I might have electric power steering on a switch, though, for use at parking speeds. I drove a small rental Fiat in Europe this last fall. It had a switch on the dash marked (CITY) It worked electric power steering for city driving and parking, On the hi-way you switched it off and had conventional good road feel steering. The autos offered in Europe are totally different models than in the US. 95% are manual trans, different makes of cars not offered over here. Very aggressive forms of driving (loved it). Ago
Gary I agree with your thought about "hiding all that junk" but instead of behind the engine I tucked those parts down in front of the engine below the level of the heads. I run the alternator and A/C pump off the gearbox that drives the supercharger. Cooling comes from a Meziere water pump and Flexalite fan. My intent was to let the crank driven supercharged Hemi speak for itself without pulleys, belts and bling cluttering it up.
I don't know what advantage there would be to running the power steering off the differential. No power steering when stopped or at slow speeds when you need it most.
speedway motors in Lincoln, Nebraska have hydraulic power assist units to add on a steering shaft. easily hidden, work off an electric or engine driven PS pump. Does it really steer that hard??
mount that bitch way down low , there was a company making these brackets for alternators,,,heck whats the difference,,,git er done.....
Sweet steering (racing) makes a kit that mounts on the rear end ,drives off rear end yoke with a pulley, works great unless you are stopped, hope this helps out
Electric PS pumps would be a great way to go, too, especially on retrofits. I've read that the later MR2 pumps are the best. I also believe they are used on some Factory 5 kit cars, and similar projects. Dang... more stuff to look at. As for my 27, I need to get me some steering like butta, not what I got. For my A coupe, I'm pretty sure the electric assist column is the way to go. Gary
Wow, this thread went off on a tangent probably my fault for not adding more info. here goes. 1) the Lycoming V12 weighs 1086# or more 2) I WANT to use the stock 'iconic' looking steering box and pitman arm 3)this is an open fender car where you can see everything top and bottom easily 4) I want to have something, for once that the mrs. can actually drive and park at a show. 5) that V12 pretty much fills the underhood area front to back and frame(rail) to frame. 6) my car does not fit into any category (ok, "OLD") as it is not a Hot Rod, not a RR, and not restored. the HAMB seems a good place for me to cherry pick ideas and trends that will hopefully make my car more enjoyable overall. weps
I am intrigued by the electric assist ones. I parallel park 2-14 times a-day, no exaggeration, before, during, and after my tiring blue-collar job. Sometimes I'm just too tired. Plus a shoulder issue adds to the fun. I already have two VSS' on-board, so shutting it down at speed would be possible.
No such thing as a tangent (rolls eyes) when you want to talk about late model stuff on a traditional hot rod board - well it's going to take a path all it's own. Some are interested, some are scared, some get it, some are accepting and some not. Some drive the stuff every day and don't even know it. Everybody has something to say about it. The electronics of it are what most find offensive but when you look at the electrical topic threads here its a major event to complete a circuit and make a light work. Sophisticated electronics really have no place on a traditional hot rod but this really could be a good thing. Some hot rodders haven't had life's eminent rewards kick them square in the nuts yet.
Yup, it does not belong here, but if it keeps me in my old car, or my rod, after my shoulder fails, I'm going to use it. Traditional, or not.
I'm recovering from my second torn rotator cuff, (and it isn't going well) I don't have enough strength in either shoulder to parallel park a late model car with power steering. You damn betcha I'm going to have power steering on everything I drive. I know the lord won't let me die, there's no way in hell I'm going to be able to push up daisies with my shoulders!
An EPS system is a fly by wire steering assist design. When parking or maneuvering the car at slow speeds the steering feels maximum resistance from the tires. That resistance is sensed by the steering shaft and its need for more torque to turn the wheels. The module in an EPS systems senses the need for more torque and sends a signal to a DC motor which drives a gear in the EPS steering unit that provides the torque boost to the steering shaft. This is a real simple explanation of how an EPS system functions. Before installing the UniSteer system on the Imperial parking or navigating in tight areas was a huge pain in the butt. After the install it was like parking or maneuvering any large car or truck in a tight spot. I'm not sure that an EPS system has much if any effect on the steering at highway speeds since there is very little rolling resistance on the tires. The use of a kill switch might not be necessary unless you were doing some serious slalom maneuvers or cornering and wanted to maintain the feel of the road under those conditions. If you decide to use an EPS system you will want to check with the manufacturer about the use of a kill switch, since there is a brief time lapse for the module to reset the ECU when turning the system on.
The Jalopy Journal
