Factory Experimental (the FX Class) and the myth...

Today's funny cars are the end result of A/FX classes. It's come a long way!

 

What about the 1965 427 B/FX T-Bolt of Darrell Droke or the 1965 427 B/FX Galaxie of Jerry Harvey. They sure were not Mustangs

 

Shameless post, but I bought this a few weeks ago.

 

If we could only turn the hands of time back to these days.......

 

And I supplied the "correct" engine parts to put it right- CO block, 13/32 rods, and C4AE "7000 RPM Kit" steel crank

 

Sorry, I thought it had just the cast crank. Rest of the goodies are right, but the carbs are the Holley re-issues, But the SOHC has a Steel crank. haha
Eric

 

You must not have been inside the engine yet, or need to look closer- and Medium Risers, Tunnel Ports (and SOHCs) etc. usually got the C5 steel crank, or the widened NASCAR part- I swapped Bobby a cherry std C4 steel crank (not a C4AE-B grooved iron crank), correct for late High Riser "kit"- early HR's had the grooved iron crank- for the C5 crank that was in the old blown-up (and incorrect) side oiler. Most of the "regular" C5 steel cranks have the C4 number ground out and hand-restamped C5. Also swapped him a nice set of "correct" nut 'n bolt 13/32 rods for the LeMans ones from the SO, as he wanted to get the engine back as close to original/as raced back when as possible

 

Hi Gene, I figured it was a iron crank.
Eric

 

Nope, only the good stuff- that's a pretty rare crank. Bobby's eyes got pretty big when I showed it to him

 

Good to know, I appreciate the info.
I have only started it 3 times, and started collecting some different parts, like a Rotunda tach, and some green faced SW gauges. Now, I am chasing a lead on the correct front seats, and looking at a few changes to the cage, and some period correct wheels. I sure am glad Bobby and I could make this deal happen. Eric

 

the peak of the stock-based bodied cars culminated with the extreme examples like the ones of Phil Bonner and Dick Brannan, as shown in this photo of mine from Lions.
Shortly later would be the introduction of the first floppers and the all fiberglass bodied Comets from FoMoCo and Logghe.
But the stock-based bodies were tons of fun to watch. The next generation would have nothing in common with A/FX except for engines, and even that would change quickly.
Some of my favorite memories were of the SOHC Mustangs of Ronda and Ritchey, the Comets of Proffitt and Nicholson and the Mopars of Landy, Sox, etc.
Bad Mofo's all......

,

 

About that Oldsmobile comment you made George, years ago, (1987), I wanted to buy a set of "no hop" bars for a street/strip 72 Chevelle wagon I and a friend (Rick Roberts) were building. Mr. Gasket & Lakewood had stopped selling them, but a friend (former Gasser & A/Street Roadster racer) "Frantic" Fred Badberg told me, that a place called Genuine Suspension in Orange County California, was the actual manufacturer of the "No Hop" bars. I looked up the number (in the yellow pages back then), and gave them a ring. A guy named Galin answered, turned out he had worked there for years, and now owned what was left of the company, including the no hop bars, which he had just started making again.
I knew that the bars were cast with the "spud" that fits into the ears on the 12 bolt housing, were too small. One day while looking for trinkets @ Joe Factors Sales (Burbank area surplus store), I found some steel gold iridated flanged rings, that looked like they would take up the slack perfectly..,and they did. I called Galin to tell him of them (he ended up buying all of them, two 55 gallon drums full) and to ask why they had cast the spud so small in the first place. He said the No Hop bars were first made in 1964. Genuine Suspension was approached and hired by Oldsmobile to make them for their new F85/442's for their Stock/Super Stock program. As many of you know '64 only GM "A" bodies had small dia. upper control arm bushings on the rear end housing. Some very early cars even had eccentrics on the frame side. Anyway, according Galin, Oldsmobile did have some interest in class racing in '64, a little tidbit that some may be interested in. Great site you've stared George, thanks for putting the pic of our old '56 @ "The Pond" up.

 

Don't forget that the next step for Ford after these cars of Bonner and Brannan were the longnose Mustangs of '66. In '67, they too went the Logghe route.

 

The long nose cars were all Holman/Moody built cars.I spoke with Lee Holman on the phone about them just a couple of months ago when we were discussing my '65 standard wheelbase A/FX project.

Scott


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Sorry,I just re-read that and saw that you said Logghe for 67,not 66.
That Max Curtis "Stampede" car for '68 sure was an eyeful.Nice enough to be a show car!

Scott


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would be some fun match races here

 

I have this one in there...

 

When I began putting up photos of the AF/X class on the site, I made a decision to draw a line between what I felt was the last of the FX'rs and the beginning of what became the actual Funny Car class. It's for that reason that there are no photos of the many supercharged "FX'rs" (like Arnie Beswick's Tameless Tiger for instance or Mr. Norm's blown Dodges) and also the full tube chassis cars starting with the Nicholson, et al, (Logge chassis) Comets and Long Nose H-M Mustangs. The lines between some of the S/S, F/X, O/S, L/P, S/X and eventually the F/C cars was never very black and white...

 

and that's why I added this one and didn't proceed to anything beyond....these were production based cars and not "long-nosed" or tube-framed.
AWB production cars were considered FX in that one murky year.

and the Jack Chrisman blown Comet does NOT fit your description either, thus not included.

 

Great thread George! Brings back good and bad memories for me! As a diehard Chevy fan in the 60's, I too remember Dyno Don, but the sad part was when GM stopped factory support in '63 and Don switched to a Mercury in '64, as did many other full time racers! As a young guy in my early teens, I was devastated that GM could make such a foolish decision, and lose so many of my heroes to the "dark side'.
Fun to look back at the pictures in this thread and see all those great cars, and drivers!!

 

the photo of mine showing Bonner losing to Brannan was at an AHRA event and, technically, the class was called FX/USI...that gray area, again.

 

Those guys really were "Rock Stars" back then,weren't they?
The way the brand loyalty was played up,encouraged,and marketed was genius!

I just wish professional drag racing could be more like that now...

Scott


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Man, the shots of the Mustangs are great. What a time in the race history!

 

BSL409, man, your moving that car pretty darn fast!
Nice looking car!
Eric

 

Some random thoughts regarding the early days of the NHRA Factory Experimental class (1962 and 1963). The original rules laid out by NHRA for the FX class really did define the class. The class was originally designed to accommodate equipment that WAS produced by the factories, but NOT necessarily installed on production line vehicles. The parts had to have a factory part number. The FX class revolved around the Stock Car Section of the NHRA rulebook. I have a copy of the NHRA rulebook for 1963. Under Factory Experimental is states:

"Factory Experimental classes are for 1962 and 1963 model-year stock automobiles using manufacturers optional equipment; optional equipment not necessarily factory assembly-line installed and/or showroom sales available. Cross-breeding from one year to another not permitted.

Three classes in this division. Class designations: A/FX, B/FX and C/FX.

Class A - 0.00 to 8.99 lbs. per cubic inch.
Class B - 9.00 to 12.99 lbs. per cubic inch.
Class C - 13.00 or more lbs. per cubic inch.

Class Requirements for cars listed in Stock Section will apply in FX class, with the following exceptions.

ENGINE: Any engine or options listed by the automobile manufacturer for the engine model used are accepted only if the engine or options are listed with and accepted by the National Hot Rod Association Technical Board. Superchargers are not permitted in this competition division.

TIRES: Any type tire/wheel combinations may be used providing they will fit in the original wheel-wells. See Wheels, Stock Class Requirements."

This is word for word right out of the NHRA rulebook for 1963. FX class rules are mentioned again a couple of times under the Stock Class Requirements.

Under FLYWHEEL SHIELD, it states that they are required on any "stick shift" transmission cars in A, B, or C/FX.

Under SAFETY HELMETS, it states that they are required in A, B or C/FX class cars.

Under WHEELS, it states that mag wheels are permitted in F/X classes.

All the rest of the rules are the same requirements listed for the Stock Classes. This in itself creates MANY limitations for "legal" FX cars. For instance:

- No hood scoops unless the car had them as original equipment.

- Open headers are permitted, but the collector openings cannot be larger that 3 1/2" in diameter, and "production type" mufflers are required, and tail pipes up to the rear end housing.

- Fan, generator and water pump must be connected and operational.

- Must have a full interior, including fully upholstered front and rear seats.

Now, we all know that cheating (or shading of the rules) went on with many (or most) of the better known NHRA Super Stock cars. But NHRA had this paragraph right in the front of the rulebook, and it stated:

"Competition and safety regulations contained in this book are presented in a positive manner. That is, wherever possible, each permissible option or class requirement has been listed as such. UNLESS THE CLASS REQUIREMENTS OR SAFETY REGULATIONS SPECIFICALLY STATE THAT A MODIFICATION OR OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT IS PERMITTED, IT WILL NOT BE ALLOWED."

This has always been the critical paragraph in the NHRA rulebooks and always open to controversy. What they are stating is that if they don't SAY you can do it,.....you can't do it. The Stock Class rules don't address BATTERIES or battery location. Does that mean that it's okay to move the battery to the trunk? Not permitted in Stock classes, but.....I remember quite clearly that the first FX cars I saw up close and personal at the '62 Winternationals, (Proffitt's 421 Tempest, Nicholson's Comet wagon and the Dragmaster 413 Golden Lancer) all had rear mounted batteries.

Toodles for now...

 

To my knowledge, only Chevy and Pontiac offered "Factory built " FX cars in 1963. The Chevy 427" Z11 Impala and the Pontiac 421" Tempest Lemans coupes and wagons. Here are some photos of these cars running at NHRA National events.









Note that none of these Z11's are using any kind of a hood scoop. They did have the production cowl-induction system that came with the car from the factory.



This photo has always confused me, Ronnie Sox running a scoop on his Z11. I think this was the F/X class at the NHRA Nationals in Detroit, but I can't be sure. The Ford in the other lane says it's running in A/FX.

And here are some photos of Pontiac Tempest A/FX cars.


No scoops at Pomona.


Initial testing WITH a scoop. If the scoop had been released by the factory, it would have been legal for all the A/FX Tempests. I wonder why it wasn't? And here's another thing. These photos were all from 1963, and mag wheels were legal in the FX class in 1963. Why is no one taking advantage of the lighter weight wheels?

 

This is one of the obscure swiss cheese Catalinas. It was owned by a Greybull, Wyo. Pontiac Dealer named Alan "Cub" Collingwood. By the way, Greybull had and still has a population of 1800. They raced at the local air strip once a month. Here's a photo of it the way is was when it ran in Greybull in 63..notice the homemade hood scoop and the B/G and B/MP classifications. I think they were softer than the original B/FX class. Second photo is of present condition, owned by Alan Witte. I was invited by Cub Collingwood's son, Alan Jr, who went to school with me to come to the dealership after school to see the new race car. After they pulled the cutout caps and installed some Casler slicks and we followed them out of town to a deserted road where a 1/4 was marked off. Then Alan and I went to the end with a stop watch and timed the first pass at about 13.2 his dad said it hit 110 by the speedo, this was at 3800 ft above sealevel. Later that year, I saw it go into the low 12's.

 

Nice real nice. Love those big Pontiacs

 

Excellent thread!
I am trying to make sense lately of the 1960s NHRA classes.
Have a math question about the 1963 FX class.
Rule book says:
A/FX = Cars lighter than 9.00 lb/CID
B/FX = Cars heavier than 9.00 lb/CID

Looking at the 1963 Pontiacs, all with 421 Super Duty's.
Weights are given as:
PM = Pete McCarthy, Pontiac Muscle Car Performance
DRFS = Larry Davis, Drag Racing the Family Sedan
3300 lb Swiss Cheese Catalina PM pg 153
3300 lb Swiss Cheese Cat DRFS pg65

Now, 3300 / 421 = 7.84 (way less than 9.00) so how did the Swiss Cheese Cats run in B/FX and not A/FX?

A weight of 3790 / 421 = 9.00 seems like the minimum to get into B/FX.

There is a note saying (PM pg156) the Howard Maseles / Packer Pontiac Swiss Cheese Cat ran 117mph in A/FX at the US Nationals in 1963. But, usually, all the Swiss Cheese Cats are said to have run in B/FX.
How could they be this light (7.84 lb/CID) and still be allowed in B/FX ????

DRFS pg66 says the 421 Tempests came in at

3200 / 421 = 7.60 Tempest 421 coupe, ran in A/FX
3450 / 421 = 8.19 Tempest 421 wagon, ran in A/FX
These line up with the NHRA Rule Book cutoff; they are under 9.00 lb/CID so run in A/FX.

The Swiss Cheese Cat does not line up.
What am I missing?
(I was a little young to remember back then)

 

History lesson. Great thread and thanks to all the contributors.

Pet peeve. Why do so many photographs disappear? Surely there must be a way to prevent this from happening.