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Projects 1940's Model A roadster, Aussie style

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by midroad, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. midroad
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 296

    midroad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've had this in the planning stage for a while and while I have accumulated nearly all the parts needed to build it I want some input from Hambers both in Australia and overseas.
    As far as i know Hotrodding didn't really start in Australia until the early 1950's but I'm sure somebody must have been modifying old Fords as soon as flathead V8's were available, so I want to hear from anyone having information about pre WW2 or 1940's rodded Model A's here.
    There were a lot of American servicemen in Australia on R&R during WW2 and some of these guys must have been hotrodders or dry lake racers so it would have been possible for a mechanically minded young aussie man to have met them and been told about AV8's.
    The plan so far is a strengthened Model A chassis with a 21 stud '37 engine and trans, '39 rear axle, 2 inch dropped A front axle with a '46 wishbone. '39 brakes and wide 5 wheels with 5.50x16 front and 6.50x16 rear crossplies. All this topped with a '28 steel roadster body.
    I want to keep it really simple as believe it or not all these parts would have been hard to round up and expensive here in Australia in the late '40's.
    I'm sure as I go along there will be opinions and corrections offered and they will be gratefully accepted.
    Pictures will follow as I have nearly finished the chassis, but keep in mind this build is what could have been , not what actually was.
     
  2. Sounds similar to my project, except I'm running a Banger and a Halibrand QC

    Here is mine

    [​IMG]

    Here is a mock up of my Halibrand 101 and dirt trackers, and behind that the front end with 2" dropped A axle, round stubs and 40 brakes
    Firestone ribs for the front are out of view

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Sounds a bit like mine too! I have a 24 stud in at the moment but will be running a '37 21 stud like you, with a '39 mercury trans and a '48 mercury rear end. Also doing mine as a 40's style car, but RHD. I don't know if we had much of a 40's era deal over here.. i've never seen anything until the 50's and they were all east coast US styled (Channelled, no chop ect).

    Heres mine..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. midroad
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 296

    midroad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Mark,looks like your'e a bit further advanced than me. I'd like a quickchange but I really want to keep it as low cost as possible. I know that won't work building a hotrod but I've gotta try.
    Also I will be using cross steering as it's what I have.
    It looks easier to build it LHD. Is it?
    Mike.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013

  5. midroad
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 296

    midroad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nick, seems there is a few on the go. Hopefully they are all different.
    I have a couple of mates who are old enough to remember the early '50's and your are right about most Aussie cars. They also reckon they were bloody rough, not a surprise as i'm sure nobody really knew what they were doing.
    Mike.
     
  6. Dago 88
    Joined: Mar 4, 2006
    Posts: 2,310

    Dago 88
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here is my coupster I put together a couple of years ago on Deuce rails. I had the 40's in mind also. Good luck with your project, sounds interesting. :cool: Cheers.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Hey Mike

    Appearances can be deceptive ........ it's just a driveable LHD Banger chassis with a Brookville Body perched on top :eek:)

    The chassis came from up your way, Bruce Sanders at Woolgoolga imported a LHD 29 coupe and put the body onto a rodded chassis, and I grabbed the rolling chassis.
    Bruce had the coupe at Valla, you may have seen it

    Biggest hassle building left hook has been finding a leak free LHD tank in australia. Took a while, but another aussie HAMB member hooked me up

    Over xmas I hope to paint the front and rear ends, brakes etc and re-assemble them ready to go under it.
    But I first need to put a new diff under my 57 Chev Stepside and re-wire my vintage caravan.... so may not get anything done on the roadster.

    Anyway, initial plan is to keep the A banger, but with a Thomas finned head and twin carb manifold, scintilla mag and lakes header

    Later it will get a B banger with inserts, full pressure and an overhead, backed with a S10 T5 and closed drive conversion.

    Anyway, a budget build is sort of possible. Mine owes me about $16k as it sits including the halibrand and vintage banger hop up bits. Should be done for about $20k

    The overhead banger will of course destroy the budget, but thats later

    Anyway, an A roadster on the road for anything under $20k in australia is "budget"

    My 14 year old son is collecting stuff for a 28 RPU. He has about half of it, and is still under $5k. Should be "FullyDone" for about $10k
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  8. It's a bloody epidemic .......there everywhere

    I have dibs on gloss black with deep red running gear :D
     
  9. midroad
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 296

    midroad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Mark, I know Bruce. I thought the price you paid for that chassis was real good.
    I started with a chassis, cowl and 2 doors that was hanging up in a cow shed just south of Coffs Harbour.
    The rest of my body is Brookville. The engine and trans came with my '37 club coupe and the rest has been bought from all over northern New South Wales.
    Funny thing is, everybody I bought parts from said 10 or 20 years ago it would have cost nothing, which I guess is the price they paid.
    I will have to use some modern bits, like a dual circuit master cylinder and probably a more modern steering box. I like to drive my cars and want it on full registration.
    More gloss black but with green engine and seats.
    It's great so see a young bloke having a go.
    Mike.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  10. If you want to discuss hopping up flatheads etc in the early days in Australia, you should talk to the speedway guys.

    Unfortunately in Australia, the depression was very, very savage, way worse than in the US and there wasn't much in the way of fun funds to play with cars. Of course it happened, but the limitations were financially based as much as anything. And then the war kicked in in 39.
     
  11. midroad
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 296

    midroad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    X38, I hadn't thought of speedway, but it was probably the only racing that used these engines in Australia.
    The long recovery from the depression and our involvement in WW2 in 1939 is why I want to keep this very simple. Nobody had money to hot up cars and I reckon parts in wrecking yards would have been near new and very expensive.
    Mike.
     
  12. Mike i think they are all pretty different in their own way, i know a mate of mine up in Rocky or Gladstone i can't quite remember.. is doing a '30 roadster on an A frame with a '32 K member and a flathead with all early running gear and brakes.. also a 40's era car. Hes another young bloke like me.

    I love Charlies (Dago88)'s car, its as good as the jokes he always puts up on facebook hahaha.

    Halfdone, if we are putting dibs on colours then i'm taking brush painted satin black with an aluminium louvered bonnet and boot lid.

    As far as budget goes, i'd really be budgeting 20 grand as Halfdone mentioned, mine owes me somewhere around the 10g mark or maybe 9.. i kind of stopped counting.. but i'd say it'll be 18 - 20 by the time i've done split wishbones, dropped A axle, tires and rebuilt the flathead and everything else.
     
  13. Heres a few snaps of my mates car (hes 27, bit older than me..). This is the above mentioned '30 roadster.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. midroad
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 296

    midroad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nick, that chassis is similar to mine. I've got a Vern Tardell repro crossmember and have used Model T rails to X frame the rear of the chassis. I haven't stepped the rear of the chassis as I am using a T rear spring which will lower it a bit.
    Pics should be up tomorrow.
    Mike.
     
  15. Yep, I was happy with it. It has lots of little brackets and trinkets that are hard to find, like brake rod guides and springs etc etc
    The original front and rear and all the mechanical brake bits will go into my 22 T roadster, which made it a good deal even if I am swapping front and rear out.

    Yes. Khye is a good kid and heading down a "car" path
    He has a HQ tonner he wants to do as his first car, and then a growing pile of A RPU bits.
    He saves most of his XMAS and holiday money for his cars, which is a good sign
     
  16. Looking forward to seeing your build photos Mike .....and we need some of yours before this thread needs renaming as "Miscelaneous Aussie Hiboy A Roadsters"

    I am also using a couple of late model bits in mine that mean it won't be a strict period correct car ...... dual master cylinder and a T5 gearbox. The T5 is an S10 4WD with Dan's torque tube conversion ......but it definately ain't 40's

    Apart from that, the Halibrand 101, Firestone dirt trackers and hop up bits on the banger make it late 40's too early 50's .....which was actually the hay day of Bangers as I understand it
     
  17. I considered using a T spring in mine but decided to do a frame height step in the rear with a reversed A rear spring instead. Bit more work but i think it gave it a good height.

    I think its cool that theres all these '40s era cars being built in Aus.. but at the same time its making it harder to keep it unique i suppose.

    Mine is all original parts except for the brookville rear half of the body.. and using original parts is definitely both costly and hard to find.

    Only bits of mine so far that will be non '40's is the XY/XW master cylinder because we can't run a single circuit master.. up here anyway.. and the possibility of a small booster for full rego. You won't see that stuff unless you get right up under it anyway.
     
  18. midroad
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 296

    midroad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If we were in the USA we could probably build a car exactly how it would have been done, but some of the parts needed just can't be found here. I'm happy to build it with newer parts if it makes it safer and they can be hidden anyway.
    Don't worry about being unique. I've been to the Nationals, Yamba and Valla rod runs this year. Out of over 2000 hotrods at these runs they are all different.
     
  19. I think it can be done here with 95% of the car be period correct, with exception to rhd i suppose.. but then again if someone from the US came over during the war and showed our guys a few photos of a 40's car.. it could of entirely been done here to the same style of say a Californian 40's model a.

    I think its more a "what could of been" as opposed to a "what did happen" sort of thing.

    I've had to buy a lot of parts from the US though because i couldn't find them here.. things like the Guide headlights.. the '36 column drop.. speedo.. '32 headlight bar.. couple other odds and ends..

    It can be done. It just costs more money.

    What surprises me, is the aussie guys that come on here and see this stuff.. and then still build a car with a torana front end. I have no idea why.
     
  20. The majority, if not all, of the bits I'm using are recent US imports I have brought in, and the chassis from under the Coupe Bruce brought in.

    I have a couple of engines, chassis and a few front and rear ends that are original Aussie sold stuff, but they were all imported originally.

    Khye's RPU will use and aussie cowl and doors

    It all adds up $ wise, but then the finished rods have strong value.
     
  21. Thats like my roadster, cowl and doors are RHD aussie originals (doors perhaps maybe canadian though as i hear they had the steel inner panels, aussie had just a wooden frame).. and all the running gear is Aussie as far as i know. The '39 merc trans came from NZ originally with the rest of the car but got rodded here.

    Still though, they are the same parts the US guys used back in the day. A flathead is a flathead, regardless of Aussie or US origins.
     
  22. As you know, I'm pretty heavily involved with the ASRF and rego negotiations

    What I learn't long ago is that rodding is a very personal taste kind of thing and it is the variety and constant change that keeps it fresh and viable

    It would be a pretty small hobby if we were all building 40's style roadsters :rolleyes:

    So I'm happy for people to build a Model A with a torrana front and bling ..... as that leaves more beam axles and steelies for me to play with

    The variety builds numbers, and that gives us strength to negotiate with the rego authorities ..... so the more people building pre-49 the better off we are, regardless of the style of cars they build
     
  23. Thats a good point. I have noticed here though with the traditional boom the last couple of years the early parts seem to be drying up substantially though. I've got everything i need for my own car, but if i was to build another in the same style with the same parts.. it'd be very hard.

    I feel sorry for anyone trying to get into it now, and have a period correct car with those incredibly hard to find parts.

    I know companies like So-Cal and the like make repro of that stuff.. but the real deal stuff is veeery thin up here in QLD.
     
  24. All model T and A mechanicals were imported

    Up untill 24 all Aussie Fords were built by coachbuilders on imported chassis

    In 25 Ford set up a chassis assembly line in Geelong, but is still used imported bits

    The progressively started tooling up for small bits

    I think the first chassis stamping was in 35

    I don't believe they started casting blocks and forging cranks until the 24 stud

    So everything in my A roadster is US imported.

    My 22 has more aussie components, as most of the body is from an aussie coach builder
     
  25. I was referring to locally sourced early parts as opposed to US sourced stuff via the HAMB, Ebay and the like. But yes, anything we build here with early parts as a 40's styled car could have been done back in the day had someone been inspired to build such a car though say a WW2 American soldier with a few photos of what they had over there.
     
  26. Yes Nick

    I buy most of my bits from the US, apart from the occasional body panel or axle in Australia...... but most of that is imported anyway.

    Even big stuff like B engine blocks and cranks, or T5 gearboxes I have bought here on the HAMB and shipped over .....usually cheaper than buying the same bit in oz
     
  27. Yea Nick, I think any pre-war style car is a case of "maybe could have been built here, but wasn't"

    Between the deeper depression here and the 3 year earlier start to WWII our boys had way more important concerns than going fast in jalopies .....like feeding themselves and defending our country and allies in Europe and then South East Asia.

    Also, without dry lakes and the salt, the competition aspect that fed the SoCal scene didn't exist here

    Talk to the old timers, and it was the first magazines and a few holiwood "flicks" that started it off here in the early 50's

    So I view the cars we are building as a little piece of California from the 40's ...... I make no pretext that it in any way reflects what was happening here.
    In fact I think building a US SoCal car is my biggest driver
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  28. I've never shipped anything quite that big usually smaller unique parts that you don't see here.. little things that cars built purely on aussie sourced parts probably won't have. I'd cry at the cost of shipping something like a gearbox haha.

    Absolutely, i'm basing mine entirely off a '40s era california style car that as you say, could have been but wasn't built here in those days. We certainly had the parts piles to make it happen without a doubt though.
     
  29. I ship small stuff by USPS air and big bits by sea

    A pair of 37 stubs or 40 hubs is way cheaper in the US, and only cost $50 shipping to your door. So works out cheaper than a pair at an aussie swap

    A T5 costs about $300 to send by air .......... but we have no S10 boxes here, and a rebuilt T5 costs 3 times as much here as in the US. So I figure its easiest to just bite the bullet and pay the dollars....... hopefully the feeling of a decent box and an overdrive under my right hand will make me forget the price tag :eek:)

    Of course I'm 50 and have a bit more disposable income than a 20 something apprentice
     
  30. midroad
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 296

    midroad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I figured out years ago that buying from the USA is the only way to build hotrods here at a reasonable cost. USPS is fairly cheap and fast.
    You guys are right about this style of car being what might have been not what it was. A car built here would have used parts from anywhere they were available.
    For example I wanted to use seats from a prewar English small sports car. These aren't available so I am modifying Morris Minor buckets to look right, I even thought about aero screens instead of chopping and laying the stock screen back but I haven't decided on that yet.
    Mike.
     

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