I have a 52, F-1, 239, 3sp. I just completed an engine rebuild. I pulled the engine and transmission for the project. Replaced the rear engine mount and put it all back together. All running well. That's the good news. During the three month project I also replaced the front seal in the stock rear end. Now I have what sounds like a granny gear rear end drone noise as I roll down the street. I realize that it's pretty low geared anyway but this noise seems greatly intensified since the rebuild. I am not sure that having an engine without all the noise it use to make (sounds "sweet" now with the new cam & dual 94's) has just made the low groan more noticeable or if I got something out of alignment? Any thoughts?
Tell us about how you changed the seal, and how tight you got the pinion nut, etc...??? Should be a Spicer rear end, with a shim that sets pinion bearing preload. It's pretty common for the shims to get worn when the bearings spin on the shaft, etc.
Damn Squirrel beat me to it, When you re-seal the rear often times you either don't get the nut tight enough, or you messed with the pinion setting by either disrupting the crush sleeve/shims or overtighten it and put too much backlash in it. Either way you gotta make your peace with it, or pull it out and re-set the clearances. If everything else was good before I would look here first. The growl you hear is the gears not meshing correctly more than likely. But first check the fluid level to make sure it's full. All the best, Tim
Thanks...fluid is good. I never opened up the diff. just removed nut, u-joint yoke, seal, washer. Re installed with new seal. Did not notice how tight nut was. It was fine before I fixed it....
Can I just put it up on jack stands, disconnect u-joint, loosen nut a bit, spin wheels and be able to hear a difference?
The nut has to be tight, and the bearing preload has to be correct. I can't think of any way to cheat that. I'd take the thing apart and inspect everything and set it up right. But that's just how I do things.
Didn't seem like a big deal just changing a leaky front seal. I don't understand how that messed it up. Guess I'll know after the project is complete?
I'm 73 yrs old and when I stand on jack stands, my nuts feel a little tight and my front seal stars to leak. I think I to have a granny rear also, because when I bend over I hear a sound like gas escaping and if I check my shorts I do have some seepage too. If you find a solution, I sure could use the help! I'm sorry guys, but I've just had a couple of Southern comforts on the rocks and getting in the spirit of the holidays. Ho Ho merry xmas.
probably know how to put in a seal with no noise being old just means a lot of experience and we made our mistakes long ago before tell all internet Merry Christmas to all
You would do well to pull the rear cover and at least do a visual inspection of the wear pattern on the crown gear. Can also check backlash of crown-and-pinion, should be around the .008" to .010" range. Also, there needs to be some bearing pre-load on the carrier bearings. Pinion brg. pre-load should be around 10in/lbs rotating with used bearings (this will 'feel' kinda stiff while turning by hand). Considering the amount of yeoman service the old Spicer has been through over the decades, there may not be much easy remedial work left in the old girl!
My money is on Squirrel and TERPU diagnosis. You messed up the preload on the pinion bearings. So now the gears don't mesh exactly as they used to, or you could have pinion bearing making noise.
This all seem way over my head. Looks like another "leave it parked and start putting nickels in the jar" adventure.
Whenever the pinion seal is replaced, you need to get the nut back to the exact place it was, or it will create big problems! Too loose or too tight will cause lash problems. Too late now, but you should have counted threads, and marked the pinion threads and nut to ensure they got back in the exact location before removing it. It probably needs to be set now, or chance having something break, or go bad.
All this to seal a drip! Oh well, in everything give thanks! Thanks for all the input, have a safe and blessing filled holiday.
I would take the drive shaft loose and turn the pinion buy hand and see if it turns smooth or not. If it fills rough I would back off the nut and see if it fills better.If so you know then that you put to much preload on the pinion bearing. So now you know you will have to pull the pinion and inspect the bearings and replace as needed and reset the pinion preload and you should be good.
saltflats is 100% correct . FYI ,you`re not the first person to replace a pinion seal and " take out " the pinion bearings . It happens more than you think.
If it's any consolation to you, I left that leaky front seal in place one weekend too long once. I was tearing down a twisty valley road (yes, you can find those on the prairies too) at break-neck speed on my way back to college. I pulled up to a stop sign and a big cloud of smoke came up over the car. Engine was still running good and I had oil pressure so I put it back in gear to limp over to a service station. Didn't have enough power to move it, the rear end had emptied out and completely seized! I hitched a ride to school and came back the following weekend thinking I'd have to tow it. Good part of the story is that I filled it back up with oil and drove it home to change it.
I've had to deal with these symptoms before. Here is some of my experience. If it's a gear noise it most likely will change in pitch and level, when coasting vs. loaded. Worn out gears will make noise regardless of backlash. Pinion bearings vs axle/carrier bearings can usually be determined by frequency. Ie: pinion speed vs. axle speed. Listen to the noise to determine what it matches. But, since it started after changing the pinion seal, the noise likely is caused by the pinion bearing preload, or lack of it. If the pinion nut is too loose, the noise is caused by excessive backlash. Be sure to use a new pinion nut everytime you take one off, or there is a chance it will will loosen. If you had set the pinion nut too tight, the pinion bearing may be toast. That doesn't happen easily, as the tapered bearings tend to gain clearance as the shaft heats up. That's why we preload them. I'm typing in generalities, as I am not really familiar with that rear end. Good luck.
When changing a pinion seal I mark the nut and pinion with a punch and use the marks to reinstall has always worked for me
That's a great idea! But it won't work if you use a new nut, which I highly recommend. Another way is to measure the torque needed to turn the whole assembly from the pinion(sans wheels), and tighten the nut until that rotational resistance is measured again. HIgh Tech...
X2 for toughnut. I repeat, pull the rear cover and check for tooth wear on the crown and pinion. Also check for "sparkles" in the oil. That oil should be changed anyway, only if the bearings and gears are good enough to continue with. That inspection will tell you more than any of us can. It is called DIAGNOSIS!
For all those "rear end" novices I was able to locate this post of "how to" rebuild the 9" ford differential. Very informative. Thanks again for the encouragement and wisdom. http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/idx/9/065/article/Ford_9_Inch_RebuildGear_Setup.html
Got her fixed...No crush sleeve, no metal in the oil, bearings looked good. Properly torqued the pinion nut and all is well. Learned a bit about these old rear ends. Thanks to all who helped along the way. Greatly appreciated!
The Jalopy Journal
