Hi all, Sorry if there are a few newbie Q's here, but I'm getting the itch to kick off my first ever rod build and there's a heap of stuff to get my head around. I've got a complete B, minus body. Got the complete running gear, suspension, firewall, complete hood, rad, fenders. Just not the body itself, and I'm looking to fit a Phaeton tub on it, which has always been my favourite. Now, as we all know, B Phaetons are not exactly common. Add in the fact that I live in Europe and it makes it all that much harder. So I've turned to the A bodies for other options. I've been looking into the work required to fit an A body on the Deuce rails, and the one thing that bothers me is the pinching of the rails on the cowl section. So here's question 1: Is it too hard to mate a Deuce cowl onto an A body? Just so I can skip the pinching part... Question 2 is more of a set: where is the wheelbase difference made up? Is the Deuce cowl longer? Can I use my original hood? Question 3: I've found an A Phaeton for sale complete. Seller says it's a 1927, not sure if this is a mistake or simply a very early A. Are these different or harder to mate to the Deuce than later A's? Thanks in advance for all your inputs on this... hoping to get my A-B hybrid project going soon! Cheers, Eddie
I can't be much help with mating the deuce cowl to the model a phaeton body but according to the V8 club of America there were 5,251 standard & deluxe phaetons produced world wide. Of these only 2,491 were built in the United States,the rest were built in Canada,Australia and the rest of the world. HRP
I would use the complete a body with cowl. Sell the b firewall . No need to pinch the chassis. You cut a little wedge out of the cowl at the bottom On the a body and it will sit flush with the chassis Michael
it would be much easier to pinch the frame than to modify the cowl (32 cowl to model a body) to fit the body to the frame all that is needed is to cut the rear sub frame out untill the body sits level on the frame and then re-work the subframe. steadfast mfg makes a kit to do this too a 27 is a model t 28 is a model a. everything is different from a t to an a so it will be easy to see the difference. the wheel base is i think 3 inchs longer and i am not sure if the hood makes the difference, but i dont think it does tk
This^^^^. Nothing is impossible, but trying to fit a deuce cowl to an A body would be a tremendous undertaking. A deuce is a bigger car with different shapes everywhere. The car you are looking at is either a '27 T, or maybe a '28 or '29 A. You can search for some pictures to figure it out. As far as pinching the frame, it is not necessary. If you don't pinch it, there will be a slight "shelf" showing where the cowl sits on the frame. Some people actually prefer it that way. If you put an A body on your Deuce frame, you will need a custom length hood. As mentioned above, the subrails will need replaced at the rear to compensate for the Deuce kickup, and the subrails will need the notch up front also (easy) because the Deuce rails run uphill slightly at the front.
Thanks all for your inputs. I guess I really need to do some more research. The car I was looking at is clearly an A, what confused me was the guy claiming it to be a '27, but I know it's not a T. Still, he's not willing to budge on price so I might have to let this one pass as my budget doesn't quite make it. HRP, I'd love to find a Deuce Phaeton tub, but Deuces of any sort are so bloody rare here... in my country, besides mine, I only know of a rough fordor and convertible. There must be others, granted, but they don't turn up for sale very often and they're so rare that prices are always too high. And I've still to find any sort of scrapyard that has the remains of any of these. We'll see what the future brings... I just hope a tub will turn up someday on this continent. Cheers, Eddie
Would you consider a glass reproduction of a '32 tub? I would...if it were my goal to have one. They can be had fairly inexpensively,used. Just a thought.
I've considered that, but I'd really rather go for metal. Besides, even glass Phaeton tubs don't exactly grow on trees, let alone on this side of the world. I find plenty of Roadsters, RPU's and Coupes, but not much more. Cheers, Eddie
The 32 fire wall will fit in a 30-31 cowl. I haven't done it but there's plenty of threads and pics here to prove it works, but its not common. The frame pinch @ the cowl is easily accomplished and nothing to be scared about. Nothing more than a nip, and tuck procedure. Much easier than installing new sub rails in the body. If you can do the sub rails you can do the pinch- but you don't have to pinch it at the cowl. Is your cowl from an open car ?
I understand. I very much prefer original steel too,but it was just something that came to mind because of this car. It's an old glass body that my buddy found in a junkyard if I remember correctly. It was a mess when he got it,but he got it together and we had a blast with that car. Few people even knew it was glass,and no one seemed to care.
It must be incredibly difficult to source early parts except for catalogs in Portugal, I applaud your effort good luck and don't graft that duece cowl to an A tub body.
I was just trying to avoid the pinch because I was feeling a bit uneasy at the thought of cutting the rails, but heck... it's a hot rod, so there must be mods. I don't currently have a cowl of any shape. My car ends at the firewall. It's an all original B, minus the body tub. I fell in love with this A-V8 below that was posted on the "1940's period correct hot rods" topic, and as the Phaeton was indeed one of my favourite body styles, that made me decide what the path should be. But I've yet to figure out how it was all put together as it looks pretty well resolved. I've already PM'd the author to enquire about the details, but this looks like an A tub set on '32 rails. So now I'm on the hunt for a tub... but I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic! You bet... even just finding the car took me quite a few years of searching! These things are not exactly plentiful and, with all the new Euro regulations, scrapyards as we knew them are slowly disappearing, so no more hunting for rusty hulks. Oh, I forgot to mention, the A I found for sale is "just" at the other end of the EU... on the Czech Republic! Cheers, Eddie
A '28/'29 body leaves about 1/2" of the outer edge of the frame exposed at the cowl without a frame pinch...although as stated, many don't mind that at all. But the '30/'31 body is wide enough to cover the frame. And a slight channel at the front of the '30/'31 (modified body mount) will allow the body to sit flat on the frame...along with the subrail mods at the rear that tub mentioned.
Yes, that's a 28-29 A body alright....until it gets to the cowl. I can't see enough detail on my computer screen to know what the cowl or windshield is. ..It's a very nice job, though,whatever they used.
Here's the original shots in better resolution on the topic... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9073272&postcount=1868 I can't quite figure them out either. Gearhead-DK still hasn't come back to me about how it was built, either. I can't identify the tub itself, but assume it's an A. The cowl section does have some A similarities, but then it appears to have been modified to suit the lines of the Deuce front end. I'd love to reproduce this, in the fully fendered version, as I think it's one of the best-looking Phaeton-based rods I've seen, but I'll need to figure out the way to get there. Cheers, Eddie Cheers, Eddie
that is a 30-31 cowl for sure. some guy make a hood to go rom 30-31 cowl to 32 grill.slight strech. and obviously a 32 grill shell. A's on 32 chassis are way cool. -like others said pinch totally not necessary.all personal opinion.- under my profile (see photo) i did a 31 roadster on a 32 chassis no pinch, minor bottom of cowl mods. super simple -dont pass on the A if its a good body. go with it. keep the 32 firewall stashed for a rainy day. great luck-andy
You have an original Deuce frame. Keep it that way. That way you can always change to a 32 body later. BTW, I know where you can get a '32 roadster cowl and doors here in Germany. A guy I know has several. With another pair of roadster doors from Brookville and a bit of sheet metal work around the back you could build yourself a 32 phaeton quite cheaply. The roadsters where cut in half to use as pickup trucks in the 1950s. They fit on a pallet so could be sent to Portugal cheaply. PM me if you want more info. Ed I think I know your chassis. It was a US Tudor wasn't it, and the body came to Germany.
Hi Ed, Yes it began its life as a Tudor, but the body went to the UK. I know the guy that got it from me sold it on, but I have no idea where it ended up. I have considered building a Phaeton from bits, but my skills with bodywork are still very primitive for such an endeavour. I have also thought about getting a cheap Fordor and chop off the top, but not sure if this would work. I have limited knowledge of the stock bodies, but I suspect the lower part of the Fordor sedan is identical to the Phaeton... am I correct? I'll be in touch about those bits. Andy (bali-rod), thanks for your pointers too! Cheers, Eddie
No Pheaton and Fordor are not the same. The tub is a roadster cowl and front doors. Then there is a center piller which can be fabricated. The rear doors are like the front doors with a cut out for the fender line. The sides and rear panel are just compound curves. The roof of a modern car will make the rear panel. It's just metal and it'll do what you want it too. Henry Ford said, "If you think you can't do it, you're right". Buy David Gardiner's DVD - http://www.metalshapingzone.com/ Once you've watched that, you'll realise you can do it. Ed
I've actually got David's excellent DVD already, got it a few weeks ago but still haven't watched it in full. I will during these days as I'm on Xmas break from school (I teach engineering at my local Polytechnic). I am pshyching myself that I can do it, but actually building up a full body is a bit of a daunting prospect, while patching up an old one would be an easier project for a starter. That's why I was looking to get a restorable A tub. That said, getting the cowl and doors would make the start of a tub, so I might end up doing that. Cheers, Eddie
1932 was a depression year in the US. Car production was very low, and the 32 is one of the lowest production Fords ever. By 1932 open cars, like tourings and roadsters were out of style, closed sedans and coupes were much more popular. So a 32 phaeton is a rare bird. Model A's were made for 4 years and a higher percentage were open cars. So you have more chance of finding a Model A body, as you know. There is another method of mounting an A body on the 32 frame. The A had straight frame rails, while the 32 did not. But, you can take a wooden board and contour the bottom so it fits on the 32 frame snugly, and has a flat top to fit the Model A body. In this way you do not need to modify the frame or the body. You or some future owner can undo the swap and no harm done.
How about Jim Jacobs Model A tub, is it on an A frame or deuce? *I just googled it, it is on a 32 frame there should be plenty of information on that car.
i have built two 28-29 model A on duece frames,both did not have pinched rails.Im not sure about a phaeton.I dont think the first cars to have this done pinched the rails,its supposed to be for looks but it looks terrible in my opinion.
Hey Eddie You can get cowl and doors here: http://jocar.se/index.php I know the page is in swedish, but if you e mail Jonas, [email protected], in english he will understand and reply. This is a european manufactured 32 roadster and they make a 5 w coupe too. Lars
Thanks everyone for your inputs. I am about to close a deal for the '28 Phaeton, I'll need your help later trying to figure out where to cut it to best mate it with a later cowl section (I'd like to keep my original hood and firewall, so a '32 cowl is ideal). Let's hope this deal gets through ok, I'd love to get this project started. Cheers, Eddie
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