Short answer, if you are building a 350 hp street rod motor, yes, they will be fine. If, like the O/P, you are asking about a blown injected motor and the question is "how much power can I wring out of this?" no.
Thanks gentlemen... I intend to use good rod bolts as well as have the rotating assembly balanced. Other than a little cam and as many deuces as I can afford it will be stock.... While I've got you though, what does my front cover look like? I don't have one, guess hot heads is my best bet. I know they build one but I can't find any pictures. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
If you want a nice set of high compression pistons for a 331 combo,contact HAMB member Blindowl about it. He's a great guy,and hasa bunch of parts that you could turn into a really evil little Hemi,at a reasonable price. Scott Posted using two Dixie cups and a medium length piece of string.
If you want to save a few bucks you could get a stock one from a HAMBer,or from someone in the Hot Heads classifieds. I just scored 8 sets of Hemi heads on there from Mondello.You never know what you're gonna find! Scott Posted using two Dixie cups and a medium length piece of string.
There are plenty of Hemi rebuild projects on the Hamb that you can read through and glean good bits of info from. The most important thing to remember is to avoid the chatter about whiz-bang race parts if you are building a street engine. Yes, some race parts can be used in street engines but you need to spend your time and money carefully. EarlyHemi engines will consume a lot of cash if you get careless. Race parts can be a bit like chrome, good for bragging rights but not always a good place to park hard earned cash. The now-old publication by Ron Ceridono is a good reference but, sadly, and much to the chagrin of those folks demanding perfection, it does have errors, omissions, and is not as complete as it was originally envisioned. Regardless of the source of the information that you find be ready to "trust but verify". There are many knowledgeable builder/owners to bounce questions off of so ask lots of questions and read through the HemiTech threads. .
The 51-4 uses a large front cover, the 55-58 won't work. The Ind/truck hemis have the same cover but with extra clutter. The HH cover is a small little cover w/o provision for a mech fuel pump. As was said watch the classifieds here, at the HH site, & EBay.
However you want to slice it, cap walk is a slow and painful death for a motor. Brinnelling of the main cap mating surface is the first sign of cap walk. As the caps move around under load, they wallow out their register, the small steps that the caps kind of snap into when you assemble the bottom end. As the register wallows out, the cap is free to move around more, and spread out laterally and flex under load, which will change the main bearing clearance. As the cap wallows out the register, its free to move around even more, and left unchecked, the cycle continues to feed on itself until you take out a main bearing. THIS IS THE VOICE OF EXPERIENCE TALKING. I wont comment further on whether this is an issue for Chryslers, or at what power levels it may become an issue, you have two conflicting viewpoints, and you have the evidence, and how some of the "names" deal with it, and why. Some old-timers also dowelled the caps on Chryslers. If you are under 400hp, its a non-issue. Figure it out for yourselves.
"If you really need 500hp then you will be money ahead if you bite the bullet and buy a 392 to start with." I agree. As a frame of reference the 392 in the attached photo dynoed 523 HP, 550 lbft TQ at 4900 RPM and 6#'s of boost. The build cost $16,700 in 2012 not including the core. The frosting on the cake is the Hemi WOW factor which IMO is priceless....
LOL...it's not just your opinion, it's mine also. What a lame book...a bunch old old guys giving anecdotes about what they did 40+ years ago. Where's the book that shows how and what to do in 2013 with current technology and parts you can actually still buy? Rich Nedbal's book on the late Hemi is what is nbeed forthe early Hemi. "I will repeat myself here, I have a low opinion of the book, but not because I think people are mis-quoted. Its the piss-poor quality of the technical information, and whats missing, which is TONS, if you are going to call it "Complete" Its really more of a pretty picture book with some nice folksy stories, rather than offering any sort of real technical insight, but thats just my opinion."
"But- IF you can get 400 horses to hook up on the Shitty pavement we have these days you are doing really good." I don't get this at all....is today's pavement somehow worse than it was in the past? Besides, I have no problem hooking up 400HP. For example, my daily driver Lexus has 387HP and it will move out right fast without any spinning. My 66 Fury (526" EFI Hemi 400HP+) has a set of Continental street tires and it hooks up hard. Put a set of M&H Racemasters on just about any car with 400HP and you'll have to pray to God to get it to spin a tire.
It is real easy to 'throw stones'...how many folks have ever been involved in a book deal? There are always limitations on something. Certainly, if you, or anyone else, can do a better book job then have at it. I'll buy the first copy to see what I have been missing out on. If you think that your Masters Thesis was a lot of work then you are in for a rude awaking. my 2¢. .
Not very often I find myself agreeing with Gregcon, but I had the same thoughts when i read that. Maybe it should say IF you can get 400 horses to hook up with HAMB friendly tires you are doing really good." Man, if the car is set up right, M/T DOT's will hook on spit, and with a damn sight more than 400hp. And the radials are almost as good, and REALLY streetable. Street tires have come a HELL of a long ways in the last 30 years, and I have done enough "illegal testing" to know.
Ok, So how much boost can I get away with on a bone stock low compression 331. 1955 cast pistons, stock rods, and all. How much will it take before it comes apart? I have a good short block, an extra manifold and extra 671.
I think it probably makes more difference naturally aspirated. But uh yea, it seems like they worked ok for him... It would be interesting to see flow bench numbers for both castings in stock form. While we are at it, IMO that is the most grevious omission in "the book". How anyone can publish a book like that in this day and age, and completely just gloss over flow bench numbers, port volumes & head porting is beyond me. I get that the book is aimed primarily at the cry baby doll set, but c'mon, head work is THE KEY to streetable power. I bought the book sight unseen expecting some useful cylinder head info, needless to say, I was disappointed. Its primarily a re-hash of the info in the street rodder series, fleshed out with more pictures, and some anecdotes. Really, if you dont know anything about Hemis, buy it. The section in the back with all the specs on rod journal diameters, deck hieghts ect, is worth the price alone, primarily because its all there in one place, you reach up, grab that book, and there it is, rather than having to hunt through a bunch of different sources, and I admit, I refer to that alot. He only pays lip service to doing any head porting, and the only flow numbers in the book are a little chart from Hot Heads that just says "stock" and doesnt even tell you which stock head they flowed. Theres virtually no information on porting heads, and ZERO info on what sort of flow numbers you can expect. As far as I'm concerned, this is a pretty serious omission in this day and age. Ported cast iron early hemi heads can go WELL over 300 cfm with ease, and if you cant clear 500hp N/A with a 300+cfm head, brother, you arent trying hard enough. They dont even give any concrete info on the differences in size between the early small-port and the late big port heads. It basically just says they're bigger. Really?? No shit, Dick Tracy. Dont get me wrong, the book does have useful information in it, but it's aimed more at the guy who is paying someone to build his engine, or wants to talk about hemis at a cruise night, its not a big help if you are trying to figure out how to make power with an early hemi. In fact, the info in there will stand in the way of making power, if you really follow it to the letter. Maybe I was spoiled by Jay Browns "The Great FE Intake Comparo". The irony is, it has way more really useful info in it than "The Complete Chrysler Hemi Engine Manual" and its titled as a book about intake manifolds. Personally, I am happier when I get MORE than the title leads me to expect, not LESS. I'll close out by saying it again, the book is worth buying,( bolded so "no-one" feels the need to have another kiniption) just dont expect it to live up to the title. Most HAMBers will be very happy with it, it has lots of nice pictures, has the carb formula they all love so much, and says lots of nice, safe, comforting things about not overcamming. But if you are trying to learn about making power with an early hemi, you better have some other resources available, because that book aint gonna get you there.
naw, seriously, as long as you dont go WOT a lot, and just cruise it around, you'll be FIIIINE. Yea, like THATS gonna happen!!!
You'll have to quantify "a lot" for me. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the bores or pistons other than low compression stock cast units. I Could spring for new high compression pistons or spend 0 and drop the extra huffer on there. I Just know that a stock 331 unit won't make me happy.
I think the Early Hemi tech series that Hot Rod did a couple years ago is probably the best single resource for information I have found yet. It gets pretty detailed with the tech,and gives a ton of sources for parts and info. Scott Posted using two Dixie cups and a medium length piece of string.
As you can see in the attached BDS CR Table if you're using the OEM 7.5 CR pistons max boost would be 4#'s, if using the 8.5 CR pistons max boost would be 2 #'s. In the 50's I raced a 23 T which was 331 powered with a 9.5 CR using OEM pistons and rods and other than a failed timing chain had no problems with the engine. I think you would be tempting fate if your Final CR exceeded 9.5 without stiffening up the bottom. The big unknown in this equation is how you plan to use the car. The WOT temptation will always be there and when you decide to smoke em its nice to know that the extra insurance you bought by installing performance pistons, rods and studs is there just in case you want to push it a little harder. JMO.... http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/technical-charts.html
It's tough to go wrong when Gene Adams is one of your major tech sources. That man is like the Thomas Edison of Hemi development...! Scott Posted using two Dixie cups and a medium length piece of string.
For a minute, I thought maybe you were gonna say he's like the shiverlay guy of hemi development... I know, I know, "go stand in the corner George"...
Don't make me taser you George.....lol! Posted using two Dixie cups and a medium length piece of string.
31 Vicky Hemi. Go for it, A blown Hemi model A will scare you before you can hold WOT for too long. ( Ask me how I know). Ago
Ok, how do you know ? My Vicky has a 354 chrysler taken out to 421 CI with a 671. That sort of scares me on a few different levels and I haven't even fired it off yet. I can't see how 4lbs of boost on a 331 can be that impressive. I'm just wanting to put all this extra crap ( very cool crap though) sitting on the self together into something extra cool for as close to zero $ as possible. There's a 392 here ready to go also but it has 10:1 pistons - so that extra huffer isn't going to work so good there. Plus that one pretty much has a home being built for it. That was my honey's idea too!!
The Jalopy Journal
