Who's the Ford T10 expert? - need a consult

Tomorrow a guy I know is bringing by two Ford T10s he wants me to take off his hands. I'd appreciate someone who knows the differences to help me decipher if these are big block or small block.

I'm really just buying them as a favor to him and will probably be passing them along to some HAMBer building a what? - '62-64? Ford.

IIRC, the T10 was offered in full-size cars behind the 390" and 406", very early Mustangs, Falcon Sprints, Fairlanes and the equivalent Mercurys.

jack vines

 

Most Ford V-8s had a 11/8"X10 spline input shaft.Later,65 up,had dual bolt patterns where it bolts to the bellhousing,early 63-64 had a narrow single bolt pattern.The 63 427 T-10 may have a 13/8"X10 spline input.The Falcon/Comet T-10 will have the shifter bosses up close to the main case just aft of the reverse arm,the rest will be towards the end of the tailshaft.I have two Falcon/Comet T-10s and one out of a 65 Mustang. ROY.

 

The T10 was only used behind FE motors in 62-63. Ford attempted to fully convert to their toploader in 64, but due to production shortages were forced to install T10s behind most small-blocks through 65. A few small-block toploaders leaked through, but they're rare....

It's been a long time, but IIRC there's few givaways to ID these. In addition to what 65Comet says, the pilot shaft (on the end of the input) is slightly longer on the big-block versions and can bottom out in the small blocks; or maybe the other way, I do
remember having to shorten one to fit but can't recall the circumstances. I do remember that if you use the short pilot in a long pilot application, you need to use a bearing, not a bushing for the pilot as the bushing won't last long. And I've seen Falcon/Comet/Mustang combo tailshafts, but only one position is machined. The Fairlane/Full size car shifter location was mid-point on the housing. One other thing to note is the front bearing retainer diameter is larger on the 65-up boxes, so even if it's dual-pattern case it may not fit the early bell unless you machine/change the retainer (and make sure it's not too small for the late bell, or poor pilot/front bearing life may result).

 

It is actually the other way. Short pilot is big block, long pilot is small block. Also I might add there was an aluminum case version offered in the 65-66 Shelbys that is quite rare and extremely valuable.

 

I knew it was one or the other... like I said, a long time....

There were also some aluminum case T10s used on the 'factory prepped' 62-63 full-size lightweights and SS cars....

 

There is a photo of a FE T-10 in my profile photo album...62-63 have a dip in the tailshaft housing for big car applications i believe.

 

Can you tell me how much HP these Trans can take before coming apart ? My 4sd is a wide ratio out of a 67 Merc Cyclone my 347 should be putting out about 400hp I'm running a 31 spline Currie 9" with 389 trutrack and a 10" tire do you think it will hold and no I will probably wont be easy on it

 

It's more about torque.... The T10 is only rated for about 370 ft-lbs, which is why it disappeared from behind big blocks, the aluminum-case versions less. Put it behind a 331 or smaller motor with no power-adders and it'll live. A bigger motor, or one capable of laying down big torque numbers will kill one in short order.

 

Then I should be ok Thanks

 

Seems like some of us are getting tangled up between the Ford-built Toploader and the Borg-Warner T10 here. Were there actually any dual bolt pattern T10s? Were T10s actually used in anything after mid-65? Weren't the differing front bearing retainer diameters on Toploaders only?

jack vines

 

I had an aluminum T-10 out of a lightweight 63 1/2 along with the engine in my 57 Ford Custom 300 back in 64. It rung the input shaft off at the midnights going into second so I drove the car home in high gear with 4.56s because it drove thru the cluster in high. I have no idea what happened to it but the engine ran for many years in a friends new 67 F100 with a C6 and hydraulic Crane cam in it after he got back from the army{ Before the screaming starts, yes you could drill out the lifter galley plug and run hydraulic lifters in them}. They were very tough motors. We paid $500 for the engine & trans complete with a bill of sale, probably equal to about $3000 today

 

I had a T-10 with the dual pattern I can't remember what it came out of..I had to adjust the front bearing retainer dia to fit the 70 maverick bell..1-1/16 input spline, don't think any of the t10's had the 1-3/8 input.....I went to look at a T10 a guy had for sale and he swore it was out of a 66 F'lane..67' Cyclone 4spd is a top loader, or should be..

 

I went to look at a T10 a guy had for sale and he swore it was out of a 66 F'lane..67' Cyclone 4spd is a top loader, or should be... Did you find a keeper seb fontana ?

 

My 65 Ranchero came with the dual pattern T-10,like I stated I also have two sitting on the floor!The early narrow bolt pattern T-10 also had the smaller OD bearing retainer,I put one behind a 292 Y-block that was a three speed,had to take 1/4" off the input shaft.I have heard of 66 Mustangs that came with T-10s,can not confirm that though. ROY.

 

I've seen 66 Mustangs with factory T10s, but that was the last of them. Nearly all '65 small-block cars got T10s, some '66s, and by '67 all Fords came with toploaders. Ford also sold their heavy-duty toploader 3-speed to GM as the 'base' transmission in GTOs and 442s (with the GM bell pattern and input); those are really rare.....

 

The good news is I much prefer the Ford T10 gear ratio spread to that used by Chevrolet and Studebaker. They chose the too-close 2.20 first gear and the too-wide 2.54. Ford used the just-right 2.43.

Question - I've seen net mentions of a Ford T10 with really-wide 2.73 low gear, but never actually seen one. Does anyone have a known-accurate link which proves the existence and lists in which cars it came?

jack vines

 

These two plus most Ford V8s and sixes have a 1-1/16" spline.

jack vines

 

T'was along time ago and he wanted way too much, at that time $125.00 was a reasonable price but he wanted twice that so I walked...The dual bolt patern t10 I had had a 25 spline out put [v8 were 28] which fit the 65' Comet six cylinder drive shaft of the car I put it in, I have no idea where I got that mainshaft from....I had to change the bushing in the tailhousing cause the Comet yoke od was smaller..I know right where I left a whole pile of t10 parts when I moved, was too tired to take them, a CVS is there now..

 

Jack

It exists as I stumbled across one that is currently in my 56 T Bird.

I will post up the casting numbers for you tomorrow.I have no idea of what it came out of.

I will say that its pretty bitchin with 488s in the ass.

Oldmics

 

www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2008/02/01/hmn_feature34.html

 

thorpe31, many thanks for the page scans. Interesting that B-W lists the T10 for '60-65 compact Fords. I was there in the day and the first T10 I ever saw behind a SBF was the '63-1/2 Falcon Sprint. The 6-cyls had to make do with the English Ford Dagenham 4-speed.

Can anyone remember a factory T10 in any Ford compact '60-early 63?

jack vines

 

Ford didn't offer a four speed in anything (other than trucks) until '62, and that was only behind the 406. The 'performance' trans prior to that was a 4-pinion BW three-speed/OD. Four speeds were offered across all car lines in '63.

 

Steve, that agrees with my recollection. That's also why even though it is in print or on the net, it isn't always correct.

FWIW, the Borg-Warner T85 with R11 overdrive was the heavy duty three-speed from which the T10 evolved.

The back story is Chevrolet Engineering wanted a four-speed for the 1957 Corvette and nothing was available. They couldn't get approval to build one in-house because of the low projected volume. Even though GM wasn't using the T85 at the time, the engineers bought some and figured out how to move reverse gear into the tailhousing and make room in the case for four synchronized forward gears. They then talked B-W into manufacturing it and giving Chevrolet an exclusive for the first three years. The 1961 Studebaker Hawk was the first non-Chevrolet to use the T10. As Steve says, Ford put it behind the 406" in '62; then Pontiac and Mopar also began offering the T10.

As four-speed trannie volume increased, Ford started building their own toploader, GM pretty much copied the aluminum case T10 and built it in Muncie, IN and Mopar came out with their A833. Left with no OEM clients, Borg-Warner stiffened up some parts and started selling the SuperT10 to the aftermarket and then GM started buying them again because they were stronger than the Muncie.

jack vines

 

There was at least one T-10 behind an early '64 R code Galaxie, because I had one. The '64 Ford and Mercury shop manual doesn't even cover the new 4-speed top loader, which leads me to believe the TLs didn't arrive until '64 production had already begun.

 

I bought a new 62 Ford Galaxy 500XL convert late in the model year with a 406 4 speed. I took out the original trans and the dealer repaired it under warranty. It went out again and the dealer repaired or replaced it with a heavier 427 shaft and gears...as I remember. They told me if I broke it again, I was on my own. It held up as long as I owned the car. I think they had 4 speeds in 62 390's too, don't know about 352's. I acquired a T=10 with a lot of parts I bought, I will have to check and see which version it is. It has an old Hurst shifter on it.

 

The T10 was offered in 62 other than 406s, my Q code us a 390 375hp 4v and a 4spd. Have the factory build sheet which was stuck behind the passenger side door card!
The 5 Code in the "Trans" Section denotes that it is a 4speed and the trans still has the original factory tags attached.

 

I have researched T10's and can't find what I'm looking for. I have a cast iron T10B-1 and the tailshaft housing is marked T-10B-7, both numbers cast in. It has a 10 spline input shaft, so I presume t is a Ford or Mustang application.

 

Cast iron t10s are ussually of the ford variety. Too tell the difference is the location of the shifter. The galaxie would be up towards the main case and the mustang would be at the back of the tail housing. Hope this helps.

 

Ol Ford Guy, Do you still have this transmission? Have pics? Thanks!

 

Is it possible to put gears from Ford T-10 into a Chevy T-10 case?