Saw on the news this morning , that bidder #3 is on deck , with a bid of 450, 000.....A far cry from the 6 million, or even the 2 million of the 2nd....I would say with all of the clean up & potential environmental issues , a 100K is about right...I know there is a late model stock car stuck on the 3rd floor of one of those buildings...was stored there and the access to that area collapsed, making impossible to remove without a crane....Shawn
Yep. Realistically, the property has no cash value in its present state -- it's upside down. Estimates of the site remediation are around $25 million, not including demolition. What's 40 acres of central Detroit worth in usable form?
One other thing...both the 6 & 2 million dollar bidders had to place deposits of 600,000 & 200, 000 That were non refundable...and the third has a 45,000 deposit...so the city is making money off this deal already, even if bidder # 3 falls thru , they have made 845K....Shawn
This may be a little off topic, but maybe someone has an answer , I hope. When built, this was the "largest manufacturing plant in the world". Why would Packard need so much space, the number of cars they built was miniscule compared to GM or Ford, even in their heyday? Always wondered about that. Thanks for this thread, the video was great.
Most simple answer I can come up with...ALL the Packards (and components) were built there , unlike the multiple plants of GM, Ford & Chrysler....where they build engines in one plant, trans, in another , stamp sheet metal in another , and then assemble in multiple others...Shawn
It's an interesting question. Packard (1903) was claimed to be 3.5 million square feet, while Ford Highland Park (1910) was 3 million square feet. However, the Ford Rouge plant (1917) was 16 million square feet. In more recent years, Packard has been described as the "largest abandoned factory in the world" and "the world's largest architectural ruin." You wonder how well such claims are researched, if they are intended to be taken seriously. The Packard plant today is considerably smaller than when original. There once was a portion north of where I-94 is today.
When Studebaker bought Packard, why wasn't Studebaker production moved to the Packard plant, since the Packards were too big for the Studebaker assembly line? Was told this is why some Studebakers got a different front end and were branded as Packards.
The Packard plant was obsolete before WWII. For the last year of real Packard production in 1956, the cars were actually assembled a few miles away at the Briggs body plant where the bodies were manufactured. But that turned out to be a disaster as well as the Briggs plant was too small. The final Packards were rebadged and facelifted Studebakers as a cost-saving measure.
Neither "buyer" came up with the required deposit, which equals ZERO dollars. So the city of Detroit continues to hold the bag for this. That and other abandoned sites, both industrial and residential, cost the city millions every month, not just for the daily expense of sending fire dept. crews out on arson calls, investigation, police, but the cost of bad publicity, public perception, and just bad vibe. That site, and countless others inn the city, is the albatross around Detroit's neck, make no mistake. Detroit should be, COULD be, a "...shining city by sea " (OK, by the Detroit River), but as long as sites like the Packard plant exist, it can't be. For an sobering and thoughtful essay on Detroit's problems, watch Anthony Bourdain's recent episode on bis CNN show "Parts Unkown", about Detroit. Brian
About 20 years ago I was listening to a round table talk show between US and Japanese auto execs. At one point one of the Japanese turned to the US guys and said. "One thing we don't understand is that every car we built in Japan had to be shipped to the USA to various east and west coast plants, it cost us a lot of money. Instead of building economy cars like ours, you build Ford Explorers and Chevy Blazers that get 12 MPG. But what did you do? You allowed us (Japan) to build cars in America!! You cut our shipping expenses by 100%, and settled for union wage for a handful of people". Do we build American cars overseas, would any foreign country allow this?
As I understand it, Hults' $200K in deposits are non-refundable, but your points stand. Developers come in and flat rip off the city. Another good example is the PROC complex on Plymouth Rd. The new "owner" essentially turned it into an illegal dump. Story about the PROC... http://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/2012/12/02/the-plymouth-road-office-complex/
I though Hults couldn't come up with the deposit, therefore the deal was DOA. I have been wrong before. The whole deal smacked of probable fraud, just like the guy in Petoskey who got huge tax incentive money and "remediation" dollars for nonexistent contamination of the downtown site, razed the buildings, dug a big hole in the center of downtown, then vanished. The hole is still there, 5 years later, and no development.
If Packard had continued, there was a plan in which Studebaker, Packard, and Clipper would share a common body/chassis platform, GM style. However, Packard was folded in 1958 and Studebaker went with the Lark program.
As I understand it, Hults was required to pay two non-refundable $200K deposits but then defaulted on the final $2 million balance. I don't know this, however. That's simply what has been reported. Hults now reportedly owns (or has an option, etc) on the old Hudson body -Cadillac stamping plant on Conner near Harper and has some development plans there. We'll see how far that flies.
I don't know any details, but was in a bar today, and saw a banner on the TV news about a deposit being paid on the Packard plant.
The plot thickens. What did Studebaker gain or hope to gain by the acquisition of Packard. BTW thanks for all the great information on Studebaker/ Packard! Hard to imagine the Packard plant being small. Packard used to build some big ole land yachts.
Technically, it was the other way around - Packard bought Studebaker, having some cash. But neither did due diligence on the other, and both had been doing rose-glasses accounting, so both were in worse shape than the other thought. The drone cam shows the obsolete plant design well. The complex was huge, but multistory and made up of multiple, relatively smaller buildings tied together. Much of it was built before Packard adopted the moving assembly line -- which works best in a big, single-story layout under one roof. Video: The Packard Plant by Drone Cam | Mac's Motor City Garage.com
I've sorta decided to remain silent for a while, but I have to express some things here due to my interest and knowledge of the brand. The concrete grille? I know exactly where it went but not sure what's been done with it at this time. It can be found in Dayton, OH in "Citizen's Motorcar Co. America's Packard Museum". The Packard stuff nearby, most of it belongs to someone I've known and socialized with about Packards for decades. What's indoors mimics what's outdoors, just smaller and easier to manage throughout the year. FWIW, much of it is for sale any time so hit me up if you see something you want, but he knows very well what it is/worth and is quite fair about pricing. I worked in the Packard facility in the 70s for Carroll Packaging. Even then the surrounding area was less than 'safe' to be driving around exploring, especially in a hopped up bright orange Camaro. The Packard "virus" I have was hard to detect given hormones and the need for speed within a 20yr old. I knew many who stored their cars there, one such patron learned the lessons found in procrastination. One of the hold outs, the roof caved in on some of his most prized cars. I was at the auction where the front door was sold. I think it went to the late John O'Quinn from TX, and the executive entrance went to the Packard Proving Grounds in Utica, MI. In all fairness my info may be reversed. It's easy to lament, wish, dream or hope for some massive rose to grow from this sad structure. Assume you had all the money to spend at will forever. What could really be done there? Given the surrounding area, not much. Until the corruption and finacial issues get resolved in Motown it won't change. Crimes go unsolved, cops and city officials sometimes seem as ambivalent to the decay and dangers as the most hardcore of residents. I've known many of Detroit's biggest supporters, those who can't shake the majesty it once was and their philanthropic ventures are sometimes consumed like a plague of locusts across a field of alfalfa. I'd never claim to have any answers to share, ideas to make it better, certainly no time or money to devote to it personally either. I have my memories of working there in an auto plant, at the packaging company, and dozens of visits to grand auto shows. Packard did most things as grand as their automobiles. I have to be satisfied knowing that and equally so in the restorations I've done to keep some of their better offerings alive and well. Here's few to enjoy what they were about, and to be clear I didn't have a hand in every car shown: 33 1002 Conv Victoria 34 1101 Cpe Roadster The V-12, and yes they were detailed to this level when new. The car that 12 is in. I had the opportunity to drive the "Jesse Vincent" 1107 Dietrich Stationary Coupe. My absolute favorite 640/740 Roadster project. Even in project form there's "something" about a Packard An early Murphy Roadster, all original, aluminum coachwork
Fantastic idea, but as you say sad at the same time, I love to see how it was done, but in the UK we have seen a massive decline in building stuff in favour for cheap labour elswhere!
The Jalopy Journal
