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Technical Will JB Weld survive in an oil pan?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by jkeesey, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    Im working on a 1929 Straight 6 and it has what looks like a spaghetti monster of copper oil pipes inside the oil pan. Some of the offshoot pipes had broken loose from the main pipe. I resoldered them back as original but was wondering if I could JB Weld them after installing it to make sure they seal and don't come loose. These pipes are what looks like the main oil feed for all the main bearings, rod bearings, and valve tappets.
     
  2. George Miller
    Joined: Dec 26, 2008
    Posts: 413

    George Miller
    Member
    from NC usa

    I would not use that crap inside my engine. Why not just get a good pan. If you are talking about a chev 6 those lines are under pressure.
     
  3. '51 Norm
    Joined: Dec 6, 2010
    Posts: 827

    '51 Norm
    Member
    from colorado

    I would think that if the copper is soldered properly there will be no leaks.

    What caused the pipes to break loose? Correcting that would help prevent a recurrence.
     
  4. Somebody
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 464

    Somebody
    Member

    NO, JB weld is nothing but 2 part epoxy. It's not anywhere near as tough as people think it is.
     

  5. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    The only thing I can think broke it loose was improper installation. Im going to put it back in and try to resolder the pieces in place and see if that looks better. It is not a Chevy and a oil pan is not available. Its a 1929 Ferro built engine. The only problem I see with soldering them in place is that I used a torch and shooting a torch up into the crankcase seems sketchy to me.
     
  6. Bart78
    Joined: May 11, 2011
    Posts: 717

    Bart78
    Member

    JB weld is some pretty tough stuff. Growing up farming. I've seen people use that stuff for all kinds of stuff. I have a four wheeler that had a cracked cylinder. It's JB welded and has worked fine for a long time now.
     
  7. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 2,269

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    JB will fail because of the constant heat and cool cycle of the motor. Tried to use it for a plastic top tank repair for a radiator and it lasted about a month. I would have used silver solder only because its internal and don't have much faith in soft solder in an engine.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  8. juniorsrodshop
    Joined: Oct 9, 2008
    Posts: 266

    juniorsrodshop
    Member
    from nh

    I would only use jb to get me home... I'd braze the copper if I were you. I would almost try a radiator shop to fix it if you can't find a replacement
     
    loudbang likes this.
  9. Nads patched his Packard several years ago, hole in block and it is holding strong. One of the fleet trucks in my dads fleet lasted 100K miles with a chunk of block JB welded back in. So yes, backing up the solder it will be ok.
     
    2OLD2FAST and dana barlow like this.
  10. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    Heres a picture of the line. My only concern really is would the JB Weld itself break down in the oil? I have it soldered good outside the car but once its up into the engine it may need to flex to seat properly and the solder might break like before. My soldering irons would not get it hot enough to do a damn thing but the small butane torch worked great. Im a little more than apprehensive about using the torch right below the crankshaft. THIS GOES INSIDE THE CRANKCASE. If this was a problem roadside the engine would have catastrophic failure. There would be no way to tell this was a problem until it was too late. Luckily I caught this in time. The small feed line running to the rear valve tappets was broken clear off with a gap between it. A few of the main bearing lines were loose but were able to stay in place while the whole unit was attached.
     

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  11. henry29
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,872

    henry29
    Member

    Why would you be concerned about soldering near the crankshaft?, am I missing something here?
     
    Beanscoot likes this.
  12. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    Im concerned about using the torch near the oil soaked parts and the babbit bearings
     
  13. xderelict
    Joined: Jul 30, 2006
    Posts: 2,475

    xderelict
    Member Emeritus

    Why not solder up a new tube. You have all the fittings.
     
  14. 1948plymouth
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 109

    1948plymouth
    Member
    from Minnesota

    X2. The new pipe would be a little more forgiving. No to JB inside the engine. Great for outside the engine or transmission. Just my .02
     
  15. Kinky6
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 1,765

    Kinky6
    Member

    Could you take a small strip of copper or brass and solder on some sort of reinforcement at the joint where this broke? You could heat it up with the torch as much as needed to make the repair, then put it in the crankcase.
     
  16. fsae0607
    Joined: Apr 3, 2012
    Posts: 872

    fsae0607
    Member

    I would not trust JB inside of an engine, especially not in this application. Take the time to solder it up and do it right.

    IMO JB Weld is good for a roadside repair, enought to get you home so you can fix it up right.
     
  17. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    Epoxies have been used for years inside of 1000's of engines. I would not hesitate for a second.
     
    deathrowdave likes this.
  18. rotorwrench
    Joined: Apr 21, 2006
    Posts: 633

    rotorwrench
    Member

    Epoxy works just fine between two pieces of metal that are fixed together with some type of mechanical fastener. As was mentioned before, on the inside of an engine you have heat an cold soaking plus hot and cold petroleum products then add some water condense now and then and you have conditions that aren't good for any form of bonding unless there is a fastener or press fit in the mix to insure stability. I've seen blocks sleeved with JB Weld to seal the deck & bottom when there was a hole into the water jacket and it worked just fine.

    Copper or steel pipe can be silversoldered. It is much harder than tin/lead and will melt at a lower temp than brass.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  19. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    I don't know if the fittings are SAE or METRIC, but the part looks like it should be fairly easy to reproduce in more modern and stronger materials. If you don't have the time at the moment to make another one, you should at least take many pictures from several different angles, take accurate measurements, and build another when time allows. Or have someone with the specific talent to do build it for you. I think the epoxy would do what you expect of it, but what IF it did't? If it's somewhere that you can keep an eye on, that's one thing, but when it's out of sight..................................like inside an oil pan, that's another story. Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
    Blue One and osage orange like this.
  20. monkeyspunk79
    Joined: Jan 2, 2011
    Posts: 553

    monkeyspunk79
    Member

    FWIW, I've soldered an similar copper oil line fitting on a greasy block under a wet pushrod cover and there were no problems with fire. I did it just like I was doing house plumbing and its held so far after 3 years and 3500 miles. Looks like you got it apart and ready to reinstall, but do you have to sweat another fitting on there once its in place?
     
  21. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    All the fittings are installed and ready to go back in the engine. I just have a feeling the joints are going to want to come loose again once its in. I guess I will install it and see what happens then take it from there.
     
  22. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 2,269

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    jkeesey, I think you just answered your own question. If you are not sure that the repair is going to hold, then every time you drive your car you are going to hear noises real or not. Oil is the life blood of your engine and if your willing to take a chance on toasting your motor it's up to you. If you lived closer to me I would silver solder it for you and I guarantee it would hold.
     
  23. ddonner
    Joined: Dec 9, 2012
    Posts: 38

    ddonner
    Member
    from nfs

    woodiewagon46 has great wisdom. When you're unsure about a critical repair you constantly hear things that you are CERTAIN are signs that the critical repair is failing -- although usually its not. Makes for a bad riding experience.
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  24. it looks like the branch tubes are just soldered at the ends, can you make some "T"s so the tubes would fit into them and you could sweat them like water pipe in your house? all you would need is the correct compression fittings and not use the nuts just solder it.

    OR just use the nuts and use the compression fittings.
     
  25. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    My advice? Even though JB is good stuff used as intended to clean surfaces, I'm unsure on this being achievable here.
    I'd consult an antique forum where somebody knows what a "Ferro" is! I turned 76 today and have been a gearhead all my life, but I haven't the foggiest notion what a "Ferro" is, tractor, stationary engine, truck, or car?
     
  26. bonzo-1
    Joined: Oct 13, 2010
    Posts: 342

    bonzo-1
    Member

    Stay away from the jb weld inside the oil pan. When it breaks off it will float around in the pan and go somewhere you don't want it.
    If you are concerned about the solder joint breaking cut a triangle of copper and solder it across the two tubes for support. Oil is not gas and it will not explode or burn rapidly without a wick or being atomized.
     
  27. George Miller
    Joined: Dec 26, 2008
    Posts: 413

    George Miller
    Member
    from NC usa

    You could make some clips to hold it in place. JB weld is not going to hold on cast with oil in the cast iron. Plus hot oil and heat.
     
  28. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    Ferro was the engine manufacturer. Like Continental, they made car, industrial, and marine engines.
     
  29. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    Im going to do some research on silver soldering. Being a customer car I will worry about it until the end of time, just like I do with all the other ones. Even if the repair is done 100% perfect it will still remain in the back of my head.
     
  30. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    I wouldn't use JB or any other kind of glue. If your soldering job on the workbench is properly done, the soldered joints will be stronger than the original tubing. The tubes should flex enough for proper installation of the fittings.

    If your soldering skills aren't good, take it to a radiator shop or an air conditioning/refrigeration shop. They're the best solderers you'll ever find.
     

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