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40 Ford Cloud Mist Gray Paint Color Problem

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hot_Rod_Joe, Dec 5, 2010.

  1. Hot_Rod_Joe
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 273

    Hot_Rod_Joe
    Member

    ...or would the real Cloud Mist Gray please step forward?

    Need some help here, especially if you've ever sprayed 1940 Ford Cloud Mist Gray. My dad is painting a 31 Model A for a guy who says he wants this color. My dad likes to use TPC Global, who has the Ditzler mixes for a bunch of original colors. So we go on their website and locate the paint chip and order the stuff:
    [​IMG]

    You can see in the paint chip a somewhat darker color than what I would call "normal", but given that this is a scan of an old document, I wasn't too worried.

    Paint comes in and we put some on a paint stick and let it dry. It also has this darker look. However, with base coat, you're going to reduce it 50%, so maybe it will lighten up some.

    At this point, I tell the customer that on the range of dark to light, his Cloud Mist Gray is going to be the darker. He wants to know what that means, so I go on the internet and try to find some different pics of cars that claim to be 1940 Ford Cloud Mist Gray.

    Here are those pictures, darkest to lightest:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    We all understand that there are differences in lighting in the pics, cameras that took them, monitors that we're looking at, etc. However, this is quite a range, eh? And from what I'm seeing, the TCP Global color is closest to that awesome army truck/wagon/woody thing.

    Anyway, customer is not real happy, although he thinks the lightest examples are close to what he was wanting, although not exactly. So we're pretty stumped because I don't think TCP Global mixed it wrong. My theory is that people are used to seeing faded paint and maybe these darker colors are actually more close to original.

    So we ask the customer to bring in a sample of what he thinks Cloud Mist Gray is...turns out that he got the idea for 1940 Ford Cloud Mist Gray from a Rod & Custom article featuring Roy Brizios Graham Hollywood. I tell you what, somebody at R&C screwed up that article because there is NO WAY that this is Cloud Mist Gray...it is not a matter of lighter / darker, this is entirely a different color:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Cool color, but does anybody know what it REALLY is?

    Thanks in advance,

    HRJ
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2010
  2. Send an e-mail to "oldscrounger" here on the HAMB. He is an expert on CMG paint.

    Murph
     
  3. harpo1313
    Joined: Jan 4, 2008
    Posts: 2,584

    harpo1313
    Member
    from wareham,ma

    to me all those pics seem to have a touch of green in them ,my 34 ply orig paint was a factory gray that looked green to me .not that this is gonna help you but that ply color looks pretty close.
     

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  4. Hot_Rod_Joe
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 273

    Hot_Rod_Joe
    Member

    Vintageauto: Thanks, but I can't find anybody with that user name.

    Harpo1313: nice car...looks kinda like the Tropical Green paint chip to me.
     

  5. If it's a Ditzler code most PPG Jobbers should be able to help or go to any local Paint jobber and have them do a color match for you.
     
  6. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    I've been down this road with customers and '' their ideas '' of just what a colour is and isn't, and here's what I'd suggest your dad do-

    First off, photos of old colours,printed matter of colours don't/won't give ya a real good indication of what the true colour will look like once sprayed out. Too, colours don't as a general rule dry lighter then when sprayed. I too, think what you have there is two completely different colours! Your dad could try letting down the darker bleu colour, but the colour on the Graham has a great deal of yellow toner in it, and looks to me to be a Mopar colour from the 40s. When he gets a colour that's ballpark, shoot some draw down cards and let the customer see these, once they are fully dry, in natural light. DON'T shoot the job until the customer has signed off on his colour choice!

    Good luck,

    " ............graffiti on the walls of history "
     
  7. bangngears
    Joined: Aug 30, 2007
    Posts: 1,145

    bangngears
    Member
    from ofallon mo

    1988 BMW is as close as any as far as CMG goes.Check it out.:D
     
  8. My mistake it is "Olscrounger"...he has a thread going on a 40 Ford Woodie in CMG.

    Murph
     
  9. Rich Wright
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,922

    Rich Wright

    You might try showing your customer some color guides and letting him put his finger on the one he wants..... I use Fleet color guides a lot because they show a lot of non metallic colors that are similar to 40's era colors. You can also check through old, vintage color books ( I know you have done this at least for the Fords of that year). Don't dismiss other manufacturer's color.

    However...The best way to get the color he wants is to make it yourself....

    You can always tint the color you have to meet his "vision". If you know how to paint a car, you should have the skills/knowledge needed to change and document the formula that makes up the color you now have. That way you will have HIS color with a formula that can be duplicated without having to toss out the material you've already bought.
    It's a simple process that anyone with any knowledge about paint/color theory can accomplish and it pretty much guarantees the customer that he got what he wants.

    Regardless of how you choose to resolve the issue, I'd strongly recommend you paint a test panel for his approval (read that to say "your protection" in the event he says something like ...That's not really what I had in mind"...after the car is painted:eek:;))
     
  10. My mistake it is "Olscrounger"...he has a thread going on a 40 Ford Woodie in CMG.

    Murph

    Murph is right. Olscrounger has done more than one '40 in Cloud Mist Grey and his builds are top notch. He would be able to clarify things for you.:)....Don.
     
  11. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,770

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Have seen this before--doing a woody now that is supposed to be CMG but is darker--more like Acadia green--I've done 3 40's in CMG and think the color is very close here are a couple of pics

    I have seen cars painted with a fleet color called Evergreen thinking it was CMG but it's too green and darker -there is a 50-51 Ford pickup color that is also close but a bit lighter-
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 5, 2010
  12. Hot_Rod_Joe
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 273

    Hot_Rod_Joe
    Member

    Thanks a lot, guys. I'll check into those lighter colors. I also appreciate and agree with how to proceed with the customer...who knew there would be so much variation on this color. That's why my car is Black & White. :D

    Still not sure what in the world the Graham is, but oh well, not entirely sure if that's what he wants, either.

    Olscrounger, I sent you a PM - looks like you've seen both versions, too - do you believe the darker is "correct", but he lighter more popular? That's what I'm starting to think...

    HRJ
     
  13. Hot_Rod_Joe
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 273

    Hot_Rod_Joe
    Member

    Olscrounger's woody project...yet another version of this color:

    [​IMG]

    Honestly, it is a great color, regardless of the shade...
     
  14. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,770

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is much darker than my coupe and past coupe and convert--more like acadia green but looks good with the wood--the color on my car is very close--matched off the underside of an orig decklid--
     
  15. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,739

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    You said that the Graham was the color the customer wanted and that the article said Brizio did it.I hope this doesnt sound smart assed but it just seems simple to me?Call Brizio.
     
  16. uncle buck
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 1,876

    uncle buck
    Member

    I only see metallic colors for 88 BMW. Do you happen to have a paint code to reference it? I am looking for a bc/cc formula in Martin Senour paint. Thanks,Dave
     
  17. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 10,101

    50Fraud
    Member

    I like the color of Brizio's Graham in those pictures, too. I don't recall seeing this car before; in what issue of R&C did it appear?
     
  18. Django
    Joined: Nov 15, 2002
    Posts: 10,198

    Django
    Member
    from Chicago

    Just like "Washington Blue". I swear I have never seen so many variations of guys with "Washington Blue" cars yet they are ALL "Washington Blue".
     
  19. Tommy's Cycle
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 766

    Tommy's Cycle
    Member
    from So Cal

    Cmg :)
     

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  20. Hot_Rod_Joe
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 273

    Hot_Rod_Joe
    Member

    Current thinking is that we're looking at having a local PPG paint shop tint the Restoration Shop CMG to better match the lighter / more common interpretations of what CMG is supposed to be. Only problem I see with this is being able to match it in the future.
     
  21. autobodyed
    Joined: Mar 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,943

    autobodyed
    Member
    from shelton ct

    all formulas are calculated by the weight of each toner used to make the color. when they tint it, make sure they document the weight to get the desired color and put the label on the can. also have them mix up a couple of extra qrts. and "box" it all together. as long as you don't reduce the paint with an activator, it should last a long time if sealed right and stored in a cool place, should you ever need it for a repair or touch-up. being a solid color you should not have to worry about color match down the road.
     
  22. bondolero
    Joined: Dec 10, 2008
    Posts: 562

    bondolero
    Member

    Did anyone ever find the real color of the Brizio Graham ? Killer green.

    Beautiful on the 40's but the grey is also.

    Larry
     
  23. uncle buck
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 1,876

    uncle buck
    Member

    Does anybody know the formula in Sherwin Williams or Martin Senour for Cloudmist Gray?
     
  24. bishop327
    Joined: Oct 13, 2008
    Posts: 31

    bishop327
    Member
    from CO

    Hey, let's drag up another old thread!

    I too am looking for a color in this color band. Did anyone figure out what color the Graham was painted?
    Also, has anybody painted with the '41 Ford color "Paradise Green"? The old paint chips seem like they are in the same ballpark.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  25. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    I didn't catch this was an old thread till the last post so I assume the op got the A painted!
    FWIW I just bought a couple of gallons of 42 Ford Niles blue green Friday to use on my 40 and it looks pretty close to the Graham. With a little luck I'll have my truck back from the painter this week, be able to post pics.
     
  26. ...........I've seen that color on a Model A and it looked real good. Please post some pics of your '40 when you do it.:)
     
  27. b-bob
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,097

    b-bob
    Member

    Don't mean to hi-jack, but I know how photos change a color.
    My dark red '39 appears much lighter in pics than in real life, I have also read stories in rod mags ,saying that the colors are often different than the real color.
    I love the CMG too, but couldn't get a formula for it.
     
  28. bishop327
    Joined: Oct 13, 2008
    Posts: 31

    bishop327
    Member
    from CO

    Thanks, I would like to see that color. I am looking for a grey-green, something that isn't too pastel-y.
     
  29. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,770

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    the car in the avatar is cmg--color taken off underside of decklid--have a code somewhere--sent to to some hambers in the past--ds157K comes to mind but can't recall---will have to look for it

    have done 4 cmg 40's--2 coupes and convert were same color--woody shown earlier was darker and I've seen a few others shades as well-my paint guy has the r color and about 3-4 gallons on hand--
    also as someone mentioned--pictures don't show color right. My car was in a magazine and it looked GREEN--in another it looked very light and had a gray cast.
     
  30. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Thats kinda funny. I've always been scratching my head, because you are local to me, I go to a lot of car shows, and I thought I'd never seen your car. Now I think maybe I have!:D;)
     

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