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Best way to free up a flathead 6 Dodge...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by blue71c, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. blue71c
    Joined: Oct 12, 2013
    Posts: 26

    blue71c
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    What's the best solution or mix to pour into the cylinder head to free up a stuck motor? Car allegedly ran 13 years ago, stored indoors for 12 and sat outside for 1 and a half. Oil and coolant was in the engine though the radiator was not completely full and no apparent leaks. I can not turn the engine over by hand or with a 1 5/8" socket on the crank pulley bolt. I am reluctant to use the bolt to turn the engine over but I don't know of any other way without possibly damaging the starter. I used a 50/50 mix of ATF and brake fluid after I sprayed PB Blaster in each cylinder. Now what????
     
  2. 1964countrysedan
    Joined: Apr 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,131

    1964countrysedan
    Member
    from Texas

    I wouldn't use brake fluid.

    I would FILL the cylinders with marvel mystery oil and wait about a week, continually keeping them wet. Some use a diesel/atf mix. It may take more than a week of bump checking with a breaker bar.

    Of course a couple of immediate oil changes are in order once freed.
     
  3. FiddyFour
    Joined: Dec 31, 2004
    Posts: 9,024

    FiddyFour
    Member


    yeah, don't be afraid to use the crank bolt, you wont hurt it... and don't use the starter on it until if/when you get it unstuck
     
  4. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Some folks have had good luck with a solution of 50% auto trans fluid and 50% acetone.
    Others do the 50/50 with diesel and acetone. Never heardd of using brake fluid as it attracts moisture from the air.

    When you get to using the crank bolt, use you long breaker bar and a dead blow. The impact will do more than just the torque of the breaker bar.
     

  5. Bart78
    Joined: May 11, 2011
    Posts: 717

    Bart78
    Member

    ATF and acetone work real good to free up anything. ATF is good for eating carbon. I use Mobil one and ATF in my machine guns. Keeps them clean and lubed real good.
     
  6. if you hit the starter either it will go or it won't, if it won't, you let off on it right away. They're not as delicate as you think.

    You'll get as many suggestions as replies for what to use, but brake fluid is a new one on me, that can absorb water, not sure I want it in the engine.
     
  7. 50/50 ATF and acetone not brake fluid.
    Fill the entire thing up with diesel fuel and let it sit for a while. Every day give it a couple bumps. Might take a week or two to free it up but you aren't working too hard at it.

    You could try more aggressive methods but they have draw backs.
     
  8. If you can, put the socket on the crank with a breaker bar, Run a come-along from the handle to a rafter, a tree limb or whatever and crank it up real tight. You can also do it from under the car with a jack and a few blocks of wood. Every day, crank it a bit more. It'll bust loose, eventually. ATF and Acetone is the best
    BTW, thanks for not calling it a "flat six"
     
  9. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    I just had two 47/48 Plys here. Both had pistons that were not stuck. One ended up running with a stuck open exhaust valve which i fixed without pulling the head. Went through the side cover to pull the valve down.

    The other car was a parts car, so the owner did not need it started. That one only turned 15 degrees on the crank by hand, and I could hear a clunk in each direction, so many valves were stuck hard.

    If you get the crank to turn, you could do a lot of damage if you don't pull the two valve side covers, and test each valve by prying them.


    On real stuck motors, I always pull the starter out and work the flywheel gear with a bar, a little bit each way.
     
  10. blue71c
    Joined: Oct 12, 2013
    Posts: 26

    blue71c
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    What About The Oil, Should I Change It Or Should I Wait Till I Break It Free? The Oil Is Black And Sluged.Could It Hurt Any?
     
  11. Just gonna throw this out there,....
    Diesel is one thing I would not use because just like brake fluid, diesel readily absorbs water just as easy as brake fluid. Strait up ATF is the best way to break loose a seized engine because of all the additives in them, Acitone and other solvents will dry and or damage seals & gaskets.

    If it were me I would pull the engine and tear it down, clean everything up and go from there especially if the oil looks like sludge and the engine is stuck. You would be amazed at the amount of particulate debris, carbon crystals, acids and water are in that oil. Even if you disassembled everything, after a good cleaning and a quick hone in all the cylinders if everything is not to worn out you could reassemble and run it as is vs a complete rebuild. Doesn't cost a whole lot just takes time and patience. I truly think you would be happier with the results if you did that rather than freeing up the rotating assy and hoping for the best.

    By the way I've got a soft spot for old 218's and 230 Flattys, if your close to Richlands, NC I'll check and reassemble the flatty if it's disassembled & clean and you have new gaskets & seals and you cover the consumables.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    After putting all that gook down the cylinders you should at least drain the crankcase before starting.

    I think Moparob has a point. I have revived several of these engines without a tear down but, they were not stuck or were not stuck very bad. I squirted some oil down the spark plug holes and the engine turned over. Those engines started and ran without a problem.

    If it is really stuck you should at least take the head off. It is possible to remove the head, the oil pan, take out the pistons, hone the cylinders and install new rings without taking the engine out of the car.

    How many miles on it? If the engine is in good shape and not worn that may be part of the reason it got stuck. An old worn out motor with lots of space between the parts, would not get stuck so easy ha ha. So it might be a good sign if it is stuck.

    I always put a little oil down the cylinders and turn the engine over before trying to start it, if it has been out of commission for years. And spin it over on the starter with no plugs until the oil pressure comes up. This is to oil up the parts. If the engine is real bad, don't chance damaging something. Take the head off and if possible the pan too. New head gasket is about $35.
     
  13. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You can apply a lot more force by using a large screwdriver or small pry bar as a lever, and engage the small end in the flywheel teeth.
     
    samurai mike likes this.
  14. As to the acetone damaging seals and gaskets, all of it will drip straight into the pan and will not come into contact with seals or gaskets. Don't sweat that issue. Pull the head. A lot of engines seem seized until the head comes off and you find a few cylinders full of acorns
     
  15. blue71c
    Joined: Oct 12, 2013
    Posts: 26

    blue71c
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    moparob- that's the conclusion I came to today. I think I'll pull the head off first before I go for a full teardown. I don't want to put much money into it up front without knowing what works and what doesn't. Thanks for your offer to help but I'm in WI.

    Rusty- It has 56K on the odometer. You mentioned that it being stuck could be a good thing. Hopefully you are right. I understand your theory and I hope I get that lucky. I still think I'm going to pull the head, I'll just wait a while longer for the fluids to seep in.

    What are the chances that there are a few exhaust and intake valves that are open and the ATF is just flowing into the intake and exhaust manifolds? The oil may not be seeping around each piston...

    Thanks for your input everyone!
     
  16. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Depends on the engine if its a 230 the pistons are just about level with the top of the block at TDC., so if a valve is stuck open you might get some spillage out a port but there would still be some stuff flowing between the piston and at least the top ring. If it were a 218, their pistons are a couple 32nds from the top of the block at TDC so you would get that depth of puddle regardless of whether the valves were opened or closed.
     
  17. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,709

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For what its worth, I've followed several different schools of thought on freeing a stuck engine, I was trying to help my father in law loosen up an Allis Chalmers farm tractor engine. A case where it ran when parked but a leaky roof brought on the problem. He tried several different approaches (most of the ones listed above) and also put a long lever arm on the crank (old tractors could be started with a hand crank) with a heavy weight and also tried rocking the engine back and forth at the flywheel. The end result of all of the efforts were a bent connecting rod so......be darned careful. In hind sight dipping the engine after getting it apart as much as we could would have been better.
     
  18. chubbie
    Joined: Jan 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,336

    chubbie
    Member

    It took 13 years to stick it, fill the crank case with fresh "used" oil and fill the top with ATF mix and let it set. Give it some time! chances are it'll be OK. don't try to turn it over with the spark plugs in:eek:
     
  19. ROADSTER1927
    Joined: Feb 14, 2009
    Posts: 3,127

    ROADSTER1927
    Member

    Where in WI are you? Gary
     
  20. inthweedz
    Joined: Mar 29, 2011
    Posts: 580

    inthweedz
    Member

    I had a 56 Dodge pickup, which had been been sitting for 20 years, and was seized tight..
    I took out the plugs, squirted a few shots of engine oil and CRC mix in each cylinder and levered on the flywheel ring gear with a bar (as Ebbsspeed mentioned). I had that engine free within half an hour..
     
  21. Our 55 is alive!!
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 47

    Our 55 is alive!!
    Member

    What's wrong with "flat six"?
     
  22. blue71c
    Joined: Oct 12, 2013
    Posts: 26

    blue71c
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Well I did it. A complete teardown is in progress of the 230 L6 Flathead. Turns out the #1 rod was seized to the crank. It wasn't spun but I had a hell of a time getting that rod cap off. The top side of the cylinders still look really good but the bottoms are rusty. I will continue to work on getting the pistons out, hopefully without scratching or damaging the cylinders. The crankshaft doesn't look too bad. A little polishing or maybe some grinding and oversized bearings, depending on what the machine shop says. I will most likely need new connecting rods since the # 1 and 6 caps are very pitted from rust. Moisture got in from the oil pan and did a number on the bottom end.
    Wish me luck!
     
  23. lonejacklarry
    Joined: Sep 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,498

    lonejacklarry
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  24. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 1,125

    Los_Control
    Member
    from TX

    I soaked a flathead 6 engine for 1 year, until I got time to mess with it.
    I knew it was free and would turn over, when it was time to try and start it, a compression check showed me I had 5 stuck valves .... only pulling the head was going to get me further.
    Complete engine rebuild gasket set from napa was about $110, then oiling the valves with head off was easy .... Just saying, if it is working go for it, if it is not working, just pull the head and save yourself a lot of wondering and guess work.
     
  25. Mercman4life
    Joined: Jan 3, 2010
    Posts: 208

    Mercman4life
    Member

    Just picked up an off topic 73 triumph with a stuck motor. Three days with Marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and it turns over great now. That stuff always seems to work.
     
  26. blue71c
    Joined: Oct 12, 2013
    Posts: 26

    blue71c
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I ended up pulling the motor and tearing it down. The #1 connecting rod was seized to the crank. The crank and rod bearings were ok but I had a hell of a time getting that #1 rod cap off. I beat on it with a dead blow and gently pryed the cap off. I've got the block soaking in a degreaser to clean it up so I can press out the pistons. Hopefully it comes apart easier from here on out. Thanks for your insight.
     
  27. blue71c
    Joined: Oct 12, 2013
    Posts: 26

    blue71c
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Busy working and ridin the toys that actually run. I'm tinkerin on that block a few days a week. I'll get 'er back on the road eventually.
     
  28. choptop40
    Joined: Dec 23, 2009
    Posts: 5,113

    choptop40
    Member

    Lots of times the valves stick...good remedies...go Hamb
     

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