I do not post very often, but still I read the board on a quite regular basis. When it comes to my custom projects, life have had its turns with both ups and downs and due that the time in my garage have been very limited. Also, a drawback was when I showed some ideas and they were copied by other builders before I did them at my own project. I did learn from that. If you want to keep an idea as your own, don’t go public with your project before its finished. My own fault, but lesson learned… However, I got one idea in mind that I need help with. By telling others about it, it might give more builders the same idea. That OK to me. Or maybe someone already has done the same thing? When building a custom turned into ht from a regular 2-d the water sealing of the door windows to the roof can become a major problem. With a shaved drip rail and just a rubber strip that seals the window to the roof... At work I have two colleagues with new VW cars, one Beetle and one Scirocco. Both cars have a frame less door window that seals good to the roof! When you open the door, the first thing that happens is that the window rolls down just about ¾ of an inch. By that it is possible to use a rubber sealing with an “U” for the window, that gives a good sealing. Let’s think about think applied on traditional custom instead! With stainless or chromed U-channels permanent attached to the roof it can get perfect sealing. Now to my question: Exactly, how does it work on a VW? What parts shall I search for in the junkyards? Are there anyone out there with good knowledge about VW (or other brands with the same solution). I'm not looking for other solutions of the problem, I know that there are many, but I want to use it exactly as VW does! I see this as a modern trick that can make a traditional custom better!
The new Mustangs and Camaro have this too. I have been thinking the same thing. Going to Hardtop my 51 Chevy.
There's a lot of cars that do this. Mitsubishi eclipse is another one. It's all in the wonders of the computer called the Body control module or BCM for short. Everything in the body is connected to the computer including The door handles and the window motors. Touch the door handles and the computer tells the window to go down. The computer does a bunch of crap off of micro relays on the circuit board. Just study the logic behind the operation and you can duplicate the operation. Power seats are another one that's pretty doable with some effort. You could set up relays and limit switches to do the exact same thing without the micro part or the circuit board.
It's not, but how it's done computer wise can be duplicated with traditional parts, traditional mentality and modern know how. I'd give this project a 6 out of 10 on the difficulty level. First you need some understanding of what you want to copy, and how to decipher the new fangled dangled wiring schematics. Just take the computer out and replace with relays. Next, after your power windows are installed- limit switches on the door handles trigger the window motor relay for down. If you've shaved your door handles you'll be smart enough to figure out this too. Door closed limit switch to trigger up relay on the window motors. That's the simplified version. It gets tricky working a motor from several locations as you'd need to do here. From the inside handle, outside handle, and regular window switches.
How does it work? Well it is electronically controlled so when it works it works well and when it doesn't you are screwed. here is something to ponder, the tri-five chevy had a little flap that popped up when you opened the door on a hard top car. They sealed better then any hard top car I have ever driven and I have driven a lot of them. This sort of hard top mechanism is a little old fasioned but it is an old school way to an old school problem. This is not to say that your idea is a bad one just something to ponder. Another thing to think about is that shaved drip rails look really cool. I like the look not only on a custom but also on a rod. Now here is the rub, you are hard topping a car that was not originally a hard top so it does not have the support of a hard top car from the git. you can and no doubt will adress that issue. The thought that I wish to throw out is that you have removed some structure from the car when you removed the B pillars. The drip rail is also part of the structure and the roof intact is a major part of the car. I have seen hard top cars with the drip rail removed that get driven quite often the it showed in the roof with time. Again just food for thought.
Probably not a concern with any of our cars, but something to ponder. Those windows that have to roll down 3/4" before the door can be opened are known to freeze shut in winter. As for U channel etc., Restoration Specialties has all sorts of different types... http://www.restorationspecialties.com/Products.html
If you keep the key locks you can rig a switch to move the window down 1/2" as the key turns a quarter or half way, then at full turn the key unlocks the door. At full turn you could also rig a solenoid to pop the door open so you would not need handles.
Who cares if its traditional. I personally wouldn't hold the evolution of a custom build with traditional thinking.
This was started in the late 80's with Chrysler product convertibles. First production run had the windows being broken when the door was slammed shut I believe some of the early models were pre control module and had relays to the door handle.
If my memory still serves me it started alot earlier than that. Look at the early 60's 4 dr Continental convertibles. When you opened the rear door (suicide style)the window dropped down to clear the top. They also had a ton of problems with this setup. Torchie.
Then why are you on a site dedicated to preaching the gospel of traditional rods and customs to hoodlums around the world?
Think back in time... early 60's. Lincoln convertible rear door windows would drop 2-3 inches so the door would open.... suicide doors and the window would hit the top at the rear if all the way up. Fully automated top and tonneau..... top drops, tonneau flips up to cover the opening, when all done you can't see any sign of the convertible top. Done with modules and motors??? Nope.... a ton of switches, relays and motors, cables. It can be done without a body control module running the show but will take quite a few micro switches and relays and the addition of power windows. I may have a wiring diagram around here on the window drop on he old Lincolns.
Many thanks for the ideas and input. A wiring diagram would be great help (modern car or the Lincoln). It's a long term project but I'm picking up parts and ideas all the time. Traditional? Well, I see it the same way as a 100% hidden modern sound system: A great thing to make a traditional looking custom even better. Everything visible will be very traditional, down to every single bolt and not...
A friend set up his hard-topped 50 Merc just as you describe using the switch from a newer BMW. Trick, but too complicated for my simple brain which does not like trying to figure out electrical stuff. My 40 Chevy is also hard-topped and the door glass frames I fabricated stay up and the glass rolls up and down within those frames (just like the Hirohata and Matranga cars did it). This accomplishes several things: 1) It makes it so that the glass is up inside a channel, so the water cannot go above the glass 2) This means that if the door frame then shuts against a rubber seal along the roof, then you are water-tight, and lastly, 3) it is simple enough for my brain to figure out how to put together. I've driven it in some pretty good downpours and have not had a problem (Other than a lack of windshield wipers).
My new daily driver Mustang has this feature...I hate it. Just something else to screw up at a most inopportune time. And I know it will, its Murphy's law.
True that. My wife's Mini has it and it broke the drivers window all by itself. Fixed that side, and a few years later it broke the passenger side. Shut the door and then the window rolls up that last little bit and then you hear a crunch/snap down inside the door of the glass breaking. Technology just creates more things to go wrong.
Technology prolongs the inevitable. Used to be you had to do routine tuneups and spend money on your car, now they go 100k miles before you need to touch it, thank technology. Then when it reaches that point it's a major expense to endure, thank technology. However if you put the pre technology expenditure money aside you'll see its pretty close to cover the problems. It's all the same shit, just a different day. But like you say- more things going wrong. Technology keeps folks living longer today, long enough for every humanly bodily component to fail- which is just like you said more things going wrong. I get a kick out of folks who freak out or can't get anything done when their computers screw up. I can remember doing everything before computers so its not hard to resort to old fashioned methods. One day this fucking Internet will implode and watch all the shit that goes wrong then.
Please explain for me why this has been moved. It is a technical question and connected to traditional customs... Nothing else!
when doing hardtops, from the ones i have done, you really have to think things through. I built a shoebox awhile back for a guy that the glass rolled up into the channel at the top of the door..We had an after market kit installed to roll the windows down then pop the doors with a remote..It worked and was/how the owner wanted them. I was always concerned about the passenger getting out and not bumping the down switch first, or rolling it up and shutting the door...just didnt like that style.. On this merc thats just about finished, I made everything fit and seal similar to a 50's hardtop..I used a common universal seal and U channels with the a stock application vent seal..Every thing worked together really well, but damn its time consuming..But in the end the look and fit is exactly what I was shooting for..
Very interesting topic! That Hart Top conversion and side window treatment on that Merc came out absolutely Gorgeous Matt.
I have a 2006 Subaru Legacy that doesn't need to roll down the windows before opening the frameless doors. Window just presses up against the windlace. It's a little noisy, but not worth some crazy ass window roll down thing!
Super clean work there slddnmatt! And RPW, I agree - this definitely belongs under 'Customs' and not just lost in the general technical area
When you got into a late model solution for an age old problem it became non-traditional. I doubt that I would get all het up over where it lands, you are getting good discussion and there may even be something helpful come of it for someone else faced with a similar problem.
Washing machine timers turn things on and off at different times using switches and cams. The cams look like wheels with lumps on them. Those wheels could be replaced with ones made of layered sheet metal. They could be made to turn switches on and off at exactly the right times without a computer.
You could also work up come sort of lever to lower the window a little when the door handle is turned.
I think doing what gm did on all the two door regals,cutlass,grand prix, camaro's & others in the 80's is the way to go. make an inner c channel turned sideways & put a round rubber weather strip on it. when the door is shut it will press against it tight enough to be water tight without having to add complicated motors or other electronics.
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