65 Chevelle Wagon Heating problem-Advise?

Hey guys, I have a 65 Chevelle wagon that originally had a 283 with a glide. It now has a 1984 350 with a TH350 all stock (boring). It runs between 220 and 230 degrees. I ditched the flex fan and went with a shrouded double electric, new 160 degree thermostat. New hoses, new mechanical gauge, fresh coolant and nothing helped.

Before I buy a new 3 core aluminum radiator, are there any ideas? is there anything I'm missing? Or does the fault lie with the radiator? It worked in 65 with the 283.....

All comments welcome. -Don


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Did you check the waterpump or thermostat. Did you flush the radiator before new coolant. Is running hot at idle or while driving.

 

Water pump seems to be moving water at a good rate. Thermostat is new installed correctly and no I didn't flush. Just dropped old fluid and installed new.


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ditch the electric fans and go with a 7 blade mechanical....and the correct style shroud for that car...

also , make sure the fan is pulling and that the blades are in the correct orientation with the pulling. as some electric fans need blades flipped to pull and vise versa...

what pound cap and where is the temp sender..? head or intake..? as there will be a difference in temp on gauge between the 2... and put a overflow recovery tank on it to recycle the water

 

If the radiator is original or at least fairly old it probably needs to be replaced with a larger 3 or 4 core like you have suggested. I prefer using a clutch fan with the correct shroud. Keeps the original appearance and works very well for cooling and performance.
Greg

 

Is the car boiling over? probably not
just cuz its happened to me, but are yousure the temp sensor/ gauge are working correctly? i had a car state it was at 220 on the gauge and when tested with a temp gun its howed it to be at 205.. just a thought

 

The 327 equipped non air cars had a wider thicker radiator with a shroud.Chevrolet was building really cars at that time.

 

Thanks for the input.

The mechanical sender in in the right head and is very close to the Exhaust port, that may be the reason for the elevated numbers.?? I dont hear the water percolating in the tank but it does puke a couple cups of coolant when I stop.

The reason I went away from the mechanical fan was that the fan was so far away from the radiator, with a large spacer I could only get about 1/4 of the fan in the shroud. I like original appearance but at this point I just dont want to watch the gauge every 30 seconds. I could go with the long water pump etc. but that would be a lot of work and expense, the electrics where a cheap solution ( I thought)

-Don

 

As long as you run electric fans your probably going to run warmer.

A big steel blade fan will most likely correct the problem,,what size pulleys are you running? is the water pump pulley smaller than the crank pulley? HRP

 

I don't believe you said when it was over heating, idle? driving down the road 60 or 70? other? Sometimes with the Electric fans and shrouds air is trapped from passing threw the radiator at speed. You will see on some shrouds rubber flaps that will open at highway speeds and shut when at idle or moving slowly.......................

 

I ran the same temps with a 6 blade 19" fan and shroud as I do with the electric's

Top and bottom pulleys are both 6.5"

 

I live in central CA and try to only drive when its under 90 degrees outside. (no A/C)

In 70-90 degrees outside the car will creep up to 220 in about 5-6 miles of 55mph driving.
in creeps up to 230 in town and idling.

 

At minimum I would say you need a good radiator first followed by a mechanical fan and properly spaced fan/shroud. Pic your radiator wisely it does not need to be pricey. Changing over to a long water pump isn't that big a deal even if you have PS, etc.

 

I just ordered a radiator. I'm hoping it makes it here before the weekend. I have a car load of people and we are headed to the Eagle Field vintage drags in Firebaugh. I went with the Champion 3 row aluminum pretty reasonable.


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As others have said, ditch the crap plastic electric and get a man fan.

 

I always had the best luck with stock mechanical fans. Replaced a stock 4 blade with a 6 blade on one of my old 37's years ago and ran a consistent 10 degrees cooler with a V8 and the original 37 radiator.
Using the original shroud design is also a good idea. Lot of guys change things in front because they may look better when in reality the original designers put them there for a reason.
If you are using the original radiator, have it checked to make sure you have proper flow. A friend recently had a problem and found the flow in his non leaking older radiator had been significantly reduced simply by corrosive buildup in the flow tubes. A zinc anode (available at boat marinas) placed in a good radiator helps extend the life of the radiator and minimizes the natural corrosive damage to the radiator.

 

Just a thought. If I remember right. The original sending unit was located in the intake manifold, by the thermostat housing. You now have the sending unit in the head. I think they always read hotter in the head.

 

Sender should be in intake
Bypass helps and into the heater core counts
Fan shroud can be stretched the engage fan at proper place
Radiator can be boiled and checked
Electric fans really only as last option for fitment issues.
Be sure you don't have a reverse rotation pump

 

Just by chance when you switched out engines are you using the pump that was with your old one?
What I am asking is the water pump that is on the engine now from an engine set up for a serpentine belt? Because if so the pump will be turning backwards if you went with the old stle pulleys and V-belt.

 

If it was mine i would:
Move the sender to the intake manifold.
Check timing to make sure you have enough advance.
Make sure the vacuum advance is working.
Run a big mechanical clutch fan.
Get a fan shroud for the big mechanical clutch fan.
Flush the rad.

Only if none of that works, then a new rad.

I see the new rad is on order. Do the rest anyway.
Ralph

 

The way to know if the pump is regular rotation or reverse rotation is to look at the pump pulley. If the pulley has grooves, it is a regular rotation, if it is smooth, it is reverse rotation.

 

Great idea, I dont know, I got the car on a trade and the motor was already in it. It has a 1980's look to it -lots of billet and the pump is polished aluminum.

Flow could be the issue....

Im draining the water tonight to swap out the radiator I will look at the vanes.

 

Im taking your advise Ralph, thanks.. I'll post results.

here's a pic of what Im working with. Dont really like the billet but its strong and works good, so it's staying for now.

-Don

 

Oh brilliant !
Why didnt I think of that ???


Guess the pulleys you have over there don't come off the pump.
The fan blades get tricky too

 

Well I got the new radiator from Champion it looks great, larger tanks and 3 rows of cooling, fit was great, I also moved the mechanical temp gauge bulb from the head to the intake. First impressions where great, the car ran about 190 degrees for my 60 mile trip to Eagle Field, very happy. Then on the way home I got hung up in some traffic lights and slowly watched my temp go up to 225 degrees (dropped back down to 195 when I got up to speed). I know many of you suggested going back to a solid fan and shroud, but I just purchased the dual fan and shroud set up, it really should work with this car and motor. Only thing left to swap out is the water pump??? I just dont see how that can be bad.....

 

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That might work for serpentine belts but is totally useless for V belts.

 

It's hard to see , but is your crank pulley smaller in diameter than your pump pulley, causing your pump to run slower? Bill

 

Good idea Bill, I threw a tape on them and they are both 6.5"

 

I would say that now means that the fans you have aren't moving enough air at low vehicle speeds and may not be moving enough air at any time. Personally I haven't had good luck with aftermarket electric fans preferring to use electric fans of a production car if I have to use one at all.

Seeing that you have a short pump on you don't expect a reverse rotation but there is a mid 80's Corvette waterpump that is reverse rotation. Reverse rotation pumps switched to V belts usually let the engine run close to normal at idle speeds but heat up at road speeds from my own experience. I had one in the shop that someone had swapped a 327 with V belts into a mid 80's Camaro and then bought a water pump for the body year rather than the engine.

Also a 160 thermostat isn't going to help an engine that runs hot run cooler as it will just open up when the engine temp hits 160 and stay open until the engine temp drops below 160. The engine will run at what ever temp the rest of the cooling system and ambient conditions let it run at. That's Not a biggie in your area where you seldom if ever worry about having a heater work. Or even have a heater for that matter. Guys bite off on that one all the time and it seldom works out as planned unless the cooling system is up to the task.

I'd look at air flow or coolant flow at low speeds. Since the temp drops right down at road speed and goes right back up when you slow down I'd be more inclined to check air flow first Are those cute little electric fans actually moving any air?

 

I don't see any heater hoses (by pass) or any bypass provision.
This could be a source of heating troubles.

Based on your verbal description alone, it sounds like a fan related airflow problem. However with out a bypass circuit in the cooling system there's other things to look at first.

Some guys will say that they have no troubles running sans heater core or a bypass and yet others have cooling trouble without them. I'm guessing you are not part of the first group.